ChillyPolly Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 xx wrong thread xxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beautiful Bloody Sword Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 After reading the Princess and the Queen a while back, and then doing a reread of the series, I had a wierd feeling that maybe Darry, Dany, and vicerys only pretended to vacate Dragonstone, but actually hid out there just like Aegon?, not sure of the name exactly and don't have the books with me, did while he healed up before going back to KL . Basically hiding right under the nose of who is looking for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Ser Creighton, on 10 Sept 2015 - 08:41 AM, said: If George had several references in the text to how peaches shouldn't grow in the Red Waste, then you'd have a point. But once again the lemonhaters are mistaking IRL and ITB. While I agree with the above, it might be worth mentioning that in this case the lemonhaters are wrong about RL as well. Peaches DO grow in "blazing" deserts; and are, for instance, cultivated in oases in parts of the Sahara. As for the "chilling" requirement of peaches, deserts are infamous for their large temperature variations and can get very cold at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Ser Creighton, on 10 Sept 2015 - 08:41 AM, said: If George had several references in the text to how peaches shouldn't grow in the Red Waste, then you'd have a point. But once again the lemonhaters are mistaking IRL and ITB. Precisely. This is a fantasy novel what is or isn't possible in the RW isn't always relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 I'd also add that the "they" is problematic to declare it means Viserys was actually in the House with the Red Door because Dany gives us her itinerary there of all her travels leading up to Pentos in AGOT after leaving Braavos and she never mentions returning to Braavos. Yet Dany recalls sailing to Braavos with Visery when she's old enough to talk and contemplate how cool it would be to be a sailor. I.e Dany is probably like around 5 years old when she remembers sailing to Braavos. Yet Dany's only known trip to Braavos occurred when she was a newborn when Darry snuck her out of Dragonstone. Which Dany shouldn't remember, and shouldn't be able to do what she does on her trip to Braavos. So that doesn't add up. This is a good point, and one I personally find rather intriguing. I'll compare it to the 'they' in "they found her" from Ned at the ToJ... Yet, a simpler explanation remains: that Dany's itinerary is not complete ; in another sentence she talks about crossing the Narrow Sea half-a-hundred times or something... However, I'll admit there's something there. If Darry & Dany had a household of their own, then the entire chapter Dany I would be written to be deliberately misleading. And there is one element which might go in this favor: the wetnurse. Darry supposedly left Dragonstone with a wetnurse, who is never heard from again. Yet, one would expect this wetnurse to stay around for a while and be in the House with the Red Door. [Edit: if you think Dany was too old for a wet nurse, throw in a private tutor instead ; Viserys and Darry couldn't teach her everything] So it seems indeed possible that Darry lived with Dany and her wetnurse in a House with a Red Door somewhere, and that after Darry's death, "they" were put out and Dany somehow found her way to Viserys, who had already been "begging" for some time. I'll give it some more thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Wine cups in hand, the Yunkai’i wandered the garden in small groups, beneath lemon trees and night-blooming flowers, and Dany found herself face-to face with Brown Ben Plumm. I think it's pretty clear. Dany grew up in Meereen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I think it's pretty clear. Dany grew up in Meereen. Dany subconscious is the Harpy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose on the Loose Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Under the laws of King's Landing, as amended after the Dance of the Dragons, I don't think there's any provision for a woman to rule Westeros in her own right. That's fine. As Queen, Dany can get a new set of laws. But that's why I think lemon trees symbolize Dornish Law. Lemoncakes too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the Narrow Sea Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Under the laws of King's Landing, as amended after the Dance of the Dragons, I don't think there's any provision for a woman to rule Westeros in her own right. That's fine. As Queen, Dany can get a new set of laws. But that's why I think lemon trees symbolize Dornish Law. Lemoncakes too. Why would Dornish law matter to Dany? She's planning on winning the monarchy by right of conquest. If she wins her war for the throne, then the laws don't matter as she now is the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Why would Dornish law matter to Dany? She's planning on winning the monarchy by right of conquest. If she wins her war for the throne, then the laws don't matter as she now is the law. Yes because enforcing new and unpopular laws worked so well for her in Mereen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the Narrow Sea Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Yes because enforcing new and unpopular laws worked so well for her in Mereen. No I get that, but I'm thinking that the poster was trying to say that Dornish law would help her seeing as Dornish law allows female inheritance. My response is simply that Dany isn't planning on winning the throne through any real measure of succession laws as she's planning on conquering the country. So she doesn't need any legal claim to the throne if she takes it by force which is what she's planning to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 No I get that, but I'm thinking that the poster was trying to say that Dornish law would help her seeing as Dornish law allows female inheritance. My response is simply that Dany isn't planning on winning the throne through any real measure of succession laws as she's planning on conquering the country. So she doesn't need any legal claim to the throne if she takes it by force which is what she's planning to do. If she kingdoms by violent conquer then yes. There could also be an interesting chance of Dornish law being made to apply to the whole seven kingdoms by Cersei in the next book. Its been foreshadowed quite a bit. Would be interesting to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GravyFace Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Under the laws of King's Landing, as amended after the Dance of the Dragons, I don't think there's any provision for a woman to rule Westeros in her own right. That's fine. As Queen, Dany can get a new set of laws. But that's why I think lemon trees symbolize Dornish Law. Lemoncakes too. The Lemontree isn't a symbol. If it was just meant to be a symbol then George wouldn't keep pointing out that lemon trees belong in Dorne and that they don't belong in Bravos. He could've associated lemon trees with Dorne without pointing out how much they (and trees) don't belong in Bravos, where Dany thinks she grew up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idio Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 I was not able to enjoy a single glass of lemonade this summer. Oh man! Sorry to hear my friend. On the other hand we live in the civilized world where Lemons can be had year round. I suggest making your own or purchasing some asap in the midst of this US heat wave collapse (if you are North American-centric) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idio Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 The Lemontree isn't a symbol. If it was just meant to be a symbol then George wouldn't keep pointing out that lemon trees belong in Dorne and that they don't belong in Bravos. He could've associated lemon trees with Dorne without pointing out how much they (and trees) don't belong in Bravos, where Dany thinks she grew up."Keep pointing out...." Again. Can we please keep these references in perspective? He mentioned Dorne and lemons, what, 4 times in thousands and thousands of pages of books? And nowhere does the text state thst Dorne is the -only- place lemons come from. Some people infer that, but it just doesn't exist explicitly. The Lemon Tree itself is mentioned just 3 single times in the entirety of the series. Three. Flipping. Times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the Narrow Sea Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 "Keep pointing out...." Again. Can we please keep these references in perspective? He mentioned Dorne and lemons, what, 4 times in thousands and thousands of pages of books? And nowhere does the text state thst Dorne is the -only- place lemons come from. Some people infer that, but it just doesn't exist explicitly. The Lemon Tree itself is mentioned just 3 single times in the entirety of the series. Three. Flipping. Times. If he didn't want to keep putting Dorne and lemons together, then why did he do it once again in TWOW with Alayne? Heck why have two of his released TWOW chapters made a point to point out that lemons = Dorne, not Braavos (Alayne and Mercy)? It would be one thing if he mentioned the lemon thing once, but he keeps repeating it book by book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 If he didn't want to keep putting Dorne and lemons together, then why did he do it once again in TWOW with Alayne? Heck why have two of his released TWOW chapters made a point to point out that lemons = Dorne, not Braavos (Alayne and Mercy)? It would be one thing if he mentioned the lemon thing once, but he keeps repeating it book by book. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaynsa Starne Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 If he didn't want to keep putting Dorne and lemons together, then why did he do it once again in TWOW with Alayne? Heck why have two of his released TWOW chapters made a point to point out that lemons = Dorne, not Braavos (Alayne and Mercy)? It would be one thing if he mentioned the lemon thing once, but he keeps repeating it book by book. I have no skin in the Lemon Game, but if lemons are meant to have significance to Dany, either on a symbolic or foreshadowing level, then shouldn't said lemon references be made with frequency in Dany's own chapters rather than in the chapters of the Stark girls? I'm asking purely out of curiosity, as I keep seeing posts in this thread mentioning TWOW Alayne and Mercy chapters with very little reference to Dany's wealth of chapters on already-published novels, excluding the memory from AGOT of the House in Braavos. Are there other mentions of lemons in Dany's chapters that aren't being brought up in this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the Narrow Sea Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I have no skin in the Lemon Game, but if lemons are meant to have significance to Dany, either on a symbolic or foreshadowing level, then shouldn't said lemon references be made with frequency in Dany's own chapters rather than in the chapters of the Stark girls? I'm asking purely out of curiosity, as I keep seeing posts in this thread mentioning TWOW Alayne and Mercy chapters with very little reference to Dany's wealth of chapters on already-published novels, excluding the memory from AGOT of the House in Braavos. Are there other mentions of lemons in Dany's chapters that aren't being brought up in this thread? She has a vision of the lemon tree in the HOTU in ACOK She fled from him, but only as far as the next open door. I know this room, she thought. She remembered those great wooden beams and the carved animal faces that adorned them. And there outside the window, a lemon tree! The sight of it made her heart ache with longing. It is the house with the red door, the house in Braavos. No sooner had she thought it than old Ser Willem came into the room, leaning heavily on his stick. "Little princess, there you are," he said in his gruff kind voice. "Come," he said, "come to me, my lady, you're home now, you're safe now." His big wrinkled hand reached for her, soft as old leather, and Dany wanted to take it and hold it and kiss it, she wanted that as much as she had ever wanted anything. Her foot edged forward, and then she thought, He's dead, he's dead, the sweet old bear, he died a long time ago. She backed away and ran. More recently though Dany thinks of the house with the red door, where the lemon tree was, 6 different times in Dance, half of those being dreams she has. She's also told by visions of Quaithe and Jorah 3 different times in Dance to "remember" who she is which makes little sense as she "knows" she's Aerys and Rhaella's daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maudisdottir Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 We only hear of a lemon tree, but we don't know if it bore fruit. A lemon tree might grow in a cooler climate in a long summer without necessarily producing any lemons. It would still be a lemon tree, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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