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Curled Finger

Merging Story Lines

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Oh my, you are absolutely right, and I thought I had it all straight in my head at the time I wrote it.  Thank you for the clarification, Endymion I Targaryen.  Perhaps I should have slept on it and proofread my post the following morning before I let it loose on the internet on a Friday night, but I was just too excited, heh.  Thanks again!

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On 8/26/2016 at 10:44 PM, She's Our Quaithe said:

Hello ladies and gentleman :)

 

I have been inspired by this thread (more like the wonderful people participating in it) to come out of hiding to participate. You are all so insightful, congenial and respectful to one another that I find staying out of this conversation to be irresistible. Thank you so much for bringing chivalry to the discussion, you must all be Florents :)

 

<snip>

As we can see, there is some major stuff happening, and there is the potential to have a bottleneck of POV's who are either together, or are soon to be together (barring unforeseen grrm-ish circumstances), though that might not actually end up being the case, as several of the possible viewpoints who are attached to places with multiple POV's have the potential to end up somewhere else entirely (Davos / Winterfell, Victarion / Mereen, Arya / Braavos, Jaime / Riverlands, Arianne / Stormlands). We have the following viewpoints in the following locations (setting aside the notion that Daenerys may be in Vaes Dothrak for a while before getting back to Mereen...):

 

  • The Riverlands: Brienne, Jaime (2 viewpoints)

  • Oldtown: Samwell, maybe the Damphair? (1, maybe 2 viewpoints?)

  • The Wall: Jon Snow, Melisandre (2 viewpoints)

  • Mereen (or near enough about): Tyrion, Barristan, Victarion.. Daenerys? (3 or 4 viewpoints)

  • Winterfell (or near enough): Theon, Asha (2 viewpoint)

  • North of the Wall: Davos, Bran (2 viewpoints)

  • The Stormlands: Jon Connington, Arianne (2 viewpoints)

  • King's Landing: Cersei (1 viewpoint)

  • Braavos: Arya (1 viewpoint, but for how long?)

  • Dorne: Areo Hotah, Arys Oakheart (2 viewpoints)

  • The Vale: Sansa (1 viewpoint)

 

Now that I have established where I believe each character to have left off (please be kind and correct me if I have been wrong about any of this as of yet), I suppose the meat and potatoes of this post should be about where I believe characters and POV's will intersect, meet up, and eventually MERGE (as this beautiful thread begs the question).

 

So let's see... I will start by eliminating (I believe that is what this game is all about) multiple points of view that I believe will be in the same place at the same time. This is where guessing comes heavily into play, and I take comfort in knowing the fact that I am nowhere near as clever as GRRM and will be totally happy when he writes something that I had never even thought of.

 

As sad as it is, and I love both of their arcs so much it hurts me to think about eliminating either of them, but I have to think that either Jaime or Brienne (gods please not both) will probably die relatively soon in the beginning of Winds. I honestly believe that Jaime has more to his story left than Brienne, probably through unresolved conflict with Cersei, so I am not eliminating him just yet. As romantic of an idea as it is to have Brienne become a Kingsguard once more to the next King on the Iron Throne, or to have her and Jaime follow through on their as of yet unexplored but deeply profound feelings for each other, I just don't think it's in the cards for them. I hope I am wrong, but I say we lose Brienne early in Winds and are left with Jaime as a POV in the Riverlands, until he moves on to venture back south to his endgame with Cersei. The wildcard for me would be if as this happens, Brienne lives to continue being the eyes in the Riverlands.

 

Next, let's talk about Oldtown. Oh man, so much is going to happen here. Between Sam, Alleras, and Marwyn conspiring opposite the Maesters, “Pate / Jaqen”, and Euron's eventual landing / invasion, there is so much to unpack here it is staggering. As my list states though I will now elaborate on, in all likelihood the only chance we have at an even semi-reliable view of things in Oldtown is Samwell. If we do see anything from the Damphair in Oldtown, stumbling over a great assumption that he will actually live to see the meat and potatoes of the invasion, I simply believe that he will be too messed up beyond repair from torture and shade of the evening to give any kind of reliable narrative of the events that will transpire. That is not to say, however, that he can't have one last epic cryptic vision before he meets his Drowned God. :)

 

At the Wall, I mean, I just don't see Jon Snow having a POV for a little while into Winds. As cool as it would be to get a Ghost chapter, and I do sincerely believe we may, I still do not believe it will be an accurate account of what is happening at the Wall. I believe it would moreover be a cryptic chapter filled with visions and voices of 3 eyed ravens... Until (if?) we do get a Jon Snow POV chapter again, I believe that Melisandre will be our eyes at the Wall. I know it's convenient, and I could come up with other alternatives to this, however none of them would feel as natural (Dolorous Edd POV) as Melisandre would, or they would feel as if other parts of the story were stalling just to have another set of eyes on the Wall (Davos). After Jon Snow comes back though? I think Mel's days (at LEAST at the Wall) are numbered. She has built up some seriously negative karma with her actions, and while GRRM doesn't always dish out what characters deserve, in this case I feel as though Melisandre's arc could be coming to completion in order to free up POVs. I know that is pretty weak reasoning and she could absolutely have more to her story (I want her to)... we shall see, and I would be super happy if she does. Maybe I am 50/50 on her survival in Winds. Bottom line, I believe Jon will still be our POV at the Wall for most of Winds (after he comes back). Watch me be completely wrong and we are done with Jon Snow POV's...

 

Mereen, Mereen, Mereen... Now here is a place where I can really see us grinding the axes a bit! We have an excessive amount of eyes here, and unfortunately for our favorite elderly knight, I think Barristan is a goner. He more than maybe any other POV character I see as having completed their arc. Not much more for him to do IMHO, so I think he dies early in the battle of Mereen. For certain we will keep Tyrion and Daenerys around for a long while, but Victarion? Oh I love his character, his smoking cannon arm, and his general “well at least I'm not Euron” persona, but I feel as though he will go the way of Quentin Martell (and by that I mean die even though I could envision a lot more story for him still), and probably die in the first quarter to third of Winds, probably right before Daenerys finally makes up her mind to sail to Westeros...

 

Winterfell, well this all depends on how long the battle takes and who wins... If Stannis wins and the Boltons are defeated, I think we might not see Winterfell for a good chunk of the middle of the book. I think perhaps after the battle it will be set aside for other story lines, only to be picked back up again towards the end of Winds for Jon Snow to go to the crypts and maybe (or maybe not) learn something. I feel like we won't lose Theon or Asha's POV (at first), though I do believe that Asha is not long for Planetos. I believe she will die before the end of tWOW.

 

North of the Wall will be MOST interesting. I am of the idea that Bran will be our main eyes in the Far North, though I am so unbelievably interested to see where Davos' travels will take him en route to Skagos to find Rickon and Osha. I want to learn of Unicorns and cannibals and their effect on the already wild Rickon... I don't believe we will lose either of these POV's in Winds.

 

I do not believe that we will be in the Stormlands for long. JonCon has Greyscale and will probably die before we are a third of the way into tWOW, but it will be interesting to see if he infects Westeros with Greyscale on his way out. I believe that Arianne's POV will move her towards King's Landing, where she will provide a counterpoint view to Cersei and her madness.

 

Right on schedule, that brings us to King's Landing. Oh boy will things get nuts here in Winds! I feel like the combination of Cersei / Arianne as kind of a yin to her yang POV will work especially well here, and the idea that just as the whirlwind tornadoes into a crescendo, we will interject Jaime's POV and then all the King's horses and all the King's men... well, they won't be putting anyone back together again. Okay sorry that was something, but I couldn't help it... What I mean is that I believe that by the end of Winds, I think there is a more than decent chance that Cersei, Jaime, and Arianne are all dead.

 

In Braavos, I do not believe we will be there for long. Arya / Mercy has blown her cover and overstayed her welcome come the Mercy chapter in Winds, and I don't see her just sitting in Braavos at all after that. I feel like we may not come back to Braavos once she leaves until something of utmost importance brings us back there (lemon trees? Red doors?)...

 

Dorne is interesting. I believe I remember GRRM saying that we will be seeing a lot of Dorne in Winds and I like the sound of that. There is a lot of story to tell still with whatever Doran is planning, and whether or not he will get to see that plan through to fruition since he has barely shared his plans with anyone. I don't see us losing any POV in Dorne since there is so much at play still.

 

I feel the same way about the Vale. We simply do not have enough eyes or information to lose any POV's in the Vale. If anything we need more! There is so much story about to happen there.

 

Hmm, that was a lot of words for I'm not even sure how much information that is different than everyone else, ha. To summarize, I believe that we will lose the following POV's by the end of The Winds of Winter:

 

Brienne

Damphair

Arys Oakheart

Asha

Jon Connington

Cersei

Jaime

Arianne

Victarion

Melisandre (wild card)

Barristan

 

Wow, I killed off way more characters than I thought I would as I come to the end of this post! As some of you have so eloquently put it before me, I had no idea that I would end up typing this much when I started out. It is only because all of you in this thread have been so positive and informative, interesting and provocative with your thoughts and theories that I have felt comfortable coming out of my shell and conversing with you all. Thank you all so much for the wonderful discussion!

Although I have posted my ideas here before, this gives me the chance to summarize and revise my opinion on events in TWOW..  So, what I think will happen, by location.  This is somewhat influenced by events on the show, but I won't discuss exactly what here.

  Far North (2);  Bran, Davos.  Bran will continue to learn about being a greenseer and refine his abilities.  At some point, he will leave the cave, either because he discovers that his interests don't coincide with those of Bloodraven and the Children, or because he needs to be in a location where he can tell people what he has learned.  

Davos will probably pick up Rickon.  At some point, however, he will get involved in the Hardhome evacuation, and, I believe, will end up heading North.  He will be the POV htat ses the Land of Always Winter.  This may or may not involve Benjen.

 

  North and the Wall (4) (They will merge):  Jon, Melisandre, Asha, Theon.  Jon will return rather quickly, although probably not immediately.  Either he is not dead, or is resurrected rather quickly.  While he is out of commission, though, the banker and Jeyne Poole will arrive, and be sent on toward Braavos without the chance to meet Jon.  Melisandre will continue to play a role at the Wall.

Stannis will probably win the battle for Winterfell.  I believe the Pink Letter was written by Ramsay, but doubt the accuracy of its contents.  Asha will survive, Theon probably won't.  I think Stannis will live long enough to have a confrontation with Daenerys ("slayer of lies").

  The Vale (1):  Sansa.  Sansa will get more skilled at political machinations and influencing people.  At some point, she will discover Littlefinger's bad behavior, and destroy him.  I do not see her marrying Aegon, Harry the Heir, or anybody else for the time being.  At some point, she will head North.  I see no reason for her to go anywhere else, especially KL.  And I see the Vale as only a temporary hiding place, not as a permanent home.    

  Riverlands(2):  Jaime, Brienne.  If either one of these dies, I expect it will be Jaime.  It is about time for a shocking death, and Jaime would fit the bill.  If he is not the valonqar, he has nothing he has to do.  I think Brienne will be around for a while, if only because I don't see the point of her AFFC chapters otherwise.  It was way too much for a character who is going to immediately die (I hope).  I wouldn't be surprise if they both survive, though.  I see Brienne joining with Sansa at some point.

  Kings Landing/Stormlands (3):  Cersei, Arianne, JonCon.  These will merge.  JonCon is not long for this world.  I don't think Aegon is either, for that matter.  

  Oldtown/The Reach (1):  Samwell.  Sam will probably discover something important at the Citadel, possibly involving the Others. I think he will visit Horn Hill at some point, and possibly meet his father.  I think he will also get involved with defending against the Ironborn invasion.

  Dorne (1):  Areo Hotah.  May get involved with the hunt for darkstar

  Braavos(1):  Arya.  Her story in Braavos is near an end.  Her killing of Raff will cause a great deal of trouble and will further indicate her unsuitability for the FM. They will probably keep around a bit longer, but I think she is eventually permitted to return to Westeros.  I think a meeting with Jeyne Poole could provide a catalyst for her to desire a return to Westeros.

  East Essos (4):  Daenerys, Tyrion, Barristan, Victarion.  I think Daenerys will go to Vaes Dothrrak and get the support of the Dothraki.  Meanwhile, Tyrion and Barristan will have no luck stabilizing Meereen, and the arrival of the Volantene fleet will cause the loss of Meereen.  Dany's supporters will be forced to flee aboard the Greyjoy fleet.  There has to be some way of getting Dany and Tyrion out of Meereen quickly, and I think a quick loss is more likely than a quick stabilization.

  At sea/dead (1) Aeron.  I haven't paid attention to the new Aeron chapter,, so I can't say much except that I think he is a goner.

 

Dead POVs: JonCon, Aeron, Victarion, Theon.

Possibly dead:  Jaime, Cersei (but probably not both), Barristan.

 

I don't see the need for additional POV's at this time.  Meera could be an addition if he needs additional eyes on Bran's story.  She could also give us info on her dad.  If additional POV's are needed at the Wall while Jon is out, I have an off-the-wall (pun intended) suggestion:  Jeyne Poole.  She could give us an outside view of what is happening without giving very much away.  We could also learn a bit more about her time with LF, among other things.

That's all, for now.  Hope you enjoyed it.

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On 8/26/2016 at 9:44 PM, She's Our Quaithe said:

Hello ladies and gentleman :)

 

I have been inspired by this thread (more like the wonderful people participating in it) to come out of hiding to participate. You are all so insightful, congenial and respectful to one another that I find staying out of this conversation to be irresistible. Thank you so much for bringing chivalry to the discussion, you must all be Florents :)

 

Any-who... Let us first examine where each of the POV characters were when we left off with them last (in both AFFC and ADWD since they occur somewhat simultaneously / concurrently, and because of this I will only be referencing each character's last known whereabouts congruent to their most recently seen chapter in either AFFC or ADWD, not both). Please forgive my formatting and possible stray thoughts, I have not posted anywhere on any forum in forever and a day..

 

A Feast for Crows

  • Brienne of Tarth – Injured (dying?) with Lady Stoneheart in the Riverlands

  • Samwell Tarly – In Oldtown, (Alleras, Marwyn, glass candles, oh my!)

  • Sansa Stark – The Gates of the Moon (in the Vale of Arryn... but look to tWOW entry)

  • Aeron Greyjoy – (I will move his name ahead in regards to his glorious tWOW chapter!!!)

  • Arianne Martell – (look to tWOW)

  • Arys Oakheart – In Sunspear (with Arianne)

  • Pate – Dead (face taken by Jaqen H'ghar)

 

A Dance with Dragons

  • Jon Snow – Stabbed and left for possible dead at the Wall

  • Tyrion Lannister – Outside of Mereen w/ the Second Sons (look ahead to tWOW)

  • Daenerys Targaryen – The more she drank, the more she shat, somewhere in the Dothraki Sea.

  • Theon Greyjoy - Escaping Winterfell (look ahead to tWOW)

  • Quentyn Martell – Dead in Mereen (though some believe otherwise apparently?)

  • Davos Seaworth - Last at White Harbor. Headed to Skagos for Rickon, Shaggy Dog and Osha.

  • Barristan Selmy - In Mereen, about to seize Hizdar and the city itself. (More in tWOW ahead)

  • Asha Greyjoy – w/ Stannis at the Crofter's village between the lakes.

  • Bran Stark - Learning the extent of his powers w/ Bloodraven north of the Wall.

  • Jon Connington - He and the Golden Company land in Cape Wrath and take Griffin's Roost.

  • Cersei Lannister – In King's Landing at the Red Keep following her walk of shame.

  • Victarion Greyjoy - On his way to Mereen to meet Daenerys.

  • Arya Stark - About to take on her first mission for the Faceless Men (in Braavos)

  • Areo Hotah - In Sunspear with Doran Martell.

  • Jaime Lannister – Leaving Pennytree with Brienne (I can hear Admiral Ackbar from here...)

  • Melisandre – Misenterpreting signs (as usual) at the Wall.

  • Varamyr Sixskins - Dead (for certain, so it's no matter)

  • Kevan Lannister – Dead (for certain, so it's no matter)


 

The Winds of Winter (confirmed chapters only)

  • Theon – At Crofter's village (with Stannis and Asha)

  • Arianne – On her way from Ghost Hill to the Stormlands / Storm's End (to meet JonCon)

  • Barristan – Preparing for battle in Mereen

  • Tyrion – With Brown Ben Plumm outside Mereen

  • Arya – Braavos, on her first (and completely botched) mission

  • Sansa – with Harry Hardyng at the Gates of the Moon

  • aaaaaand the poor, poor Damphair – Up shit's creek without a paddle (in the belly of the Silence, sailing south, en route to … Oldtown?)

 

As we can see, there is some major stuff happening, and there is the potential to have a bottleneck of POV's who are either together, or are soon to be together (barring unforeseen grrm-ish circumstances), though that might not actually end up being the case, as several of the possible viewpoints who are attached to places with multiple POV's have the potential to end up somewhere else entirely (Davos / Winterfell, Victarion / Mereen, Arya / Braavos, Jaime / Riverlands, Arianne / Stormlands). We have the following viewpoints in the following locations (setting aside the notion that Daenerys may be in Vaes Dothrak for a while before getting back to Mereen...):

 

  • The Riverlands: Brienne, Jaime (2 viewpoints)

  • Oldtown: Samwell, maybe the Damphair? (1, maybe 2 viewpoints?)

  • The Wall: Jon Snow, Melisandre (2 viewpoints)

  • Mereen (or near enough about): Tyrion, Barristan, Victarion.. Daenerys? (3 or 4 viewpoints)

  • Winterfell (or near enough): Theon, Asha (2 viewpoint)

  • North of the Wall: Davos, Bran (2 viewpoints)

  • The Stormlands: Jon Connington, Arianne (2 viewpoints)

  • King's Landing: Cersei (1 viewpoint)

  • Braavos: Arya (1 viewpoint, but for how long?)

  • Dorne: Areo Hotah, Arys Oakheart (2 viewpoints)

  • The Vale: Sansa (1 viewpoint)

 

Now that I have established where I believe each character to have left off (please be kind and correct me if I have been wrong about any of this as of yet), I suppose the meat and potatoes of this post should be about where I believe characters and POV's will intersect, meet up, and eventually MERGE (as this beautiful thread begs the question).

 

So let's see... I will start by eliminating (I believe that is what this game is all about) multiple points of view that I believe will be in the same place at the same time. This is where guessing comes heavily into play, and I take comfort in knowing the fact that I am nowhere near as clever as GRRM and will be totally happy when he writes something that I had never even thought of.

 

As sad as it is, and I love both of their arcs so much it hurts me to think about eliminating either of them, but I have to think that either Jaime or Brienne (gods please not both) will probably die relatively soon in the beginning of Winds. I honestly believe that Jaime has more to his story left than Brienne, probably through unresolved conflict with Cersei, so I am not eliminating him just yet. As romantic of an idea as it is to have Brienne become a Kingsguard once more to the next King on the Iron Throne, or to have her and Jaime follow through on their as of yet unexplored but deeply profound feelings for each other, I just don't think it's in the cards for them. I hope I am wrong, but I say we lose Brienne early in Winds and are left with Jaime as a POV in the Riverlands, until he moves on to venture back south to his endgame with Cersei. The wildcard for me would be if as this happens, Brienne lives to continue being the eyes in the Riverlands.

 

Next, let's talk about Oldtown. Oh man, so much is going to happen here. Between Sam, Alleras, and Marwyn conspiring opposite the Maesters, “Pate / Jaqen”, and Euron's eventual landing / invasion, there is so much to unpack here it is staggering. As my list states though I will now elaborate on, in all likelihood the only chance we have at an even semi-reliable view of things in Oldtown is Samwell. If we do see anything from the Damphair in Oldtown, stumbling over a great assumption that he will actually live to see the meat and potatoes of the invasion, I simply believe that he will be too messed up beyond repair from torture and shade of the evening to give any kind of reliable narrative of the events that will transpire. That is not to say, however, that he can't have one last epic cryptic vision before he meets his Drowned God. :)

 

At the Wall, I mean, I just don't see Jon Snow having a POV for a little while into Winds. As cool as it would be to get a Ghost chapter, and I do sincerely believe we may, I still do not believe it will be an accurate account of what is happening at the Wall. I believe it would moreover be a cryptic chapter filled with visions and voices of 3 eyed ravens... Until (if?) we do get a Jon Snow POV chapter again, I believe that Melisandre will be our eyes at the Wall. I know it's convenient, and I could come up with other alternatives to this, however none of them would feel as natural (Dolorous Edd POV) as Melisandre would, or they would feel as if other parts of the story were stalling just to have another set of eyes on the Wall (Davos). After Jon Snow comes back though? I think Mel's days (at LEAST at the Wall) are numbered. She has built up some seriously negative karma with her actions, and while GRRM doesn't always dish out what characters deserve, in this case I feel as though Melisandre's arc could be coming to completion in order to free up POVs. I know that is pretty weak reasoning and she could absolutely have more to her story (I want her to)... we shall see, and I would be super happy if she does. Maybe I am 50/50 on her survival in Winds. Bottom line, I believe Jon will still be our POV at the Wall for most of Winds (after he comes back). Watch me be completely wrong and we are done with Jon Snow POV's...

 

Mereen, Mereen, Mereen... Now here is a place where I can really see us grinding the axes a bit! We have an excessive amount of eyes here, and unfortunately for our favorite elderly knight, I think Barristan is a goner. He more than maybe any other POV character I see as having completed their arc. Not much more for him to do IMHO, so I think he dies early in the battle of Mereen. For certain we will keep Tyrion and Daenerys around for a long while, but Victarion? Oh I love his character, his smoking cannon arm, and his general “well at least I'm not Euron” persona, but I feel as though he will go the way of Quentin Martell (and by that I mean die even though I could envision a lot more story for him still), and probably die in the first quarter to third of Winds, probably right before Daenerys finally makes up her mind to sail to Westeros...

 

Winterfell, well this all depends on how long the battle takes and who wins... If Stannis wins and the Boltons are defeated, I think we might not see Winterfell for a good chunk of the middle of the book. I think perhaps after the battle it will be set aside for other story lines, only to be picked back up again towards the end of Winds for Jon Snow to go to the crypts and maybe (or maybe not) learn something. I feel like we won't lose Theon or Asha's POV (at first), though I do believe that Asha is not long for Planetos. I believe she will die before the end of tWOW.

 

North of the Wall will be MOST interesting. I am of the idea that Bran will be our main eyes in the Far North, though I am so unbelievably interested to see where Davos' travels will take him en route to Skagos to find Rickon and Osha. I want to learn of Unicorns and cannibals and their effect on the already wild Rickon... I don't believe we will lose either of these POV's in Winds.

 

I do not believe that we will be in the Stormlands for long. JonCon has Greyscale and will probably die before we are a third of the way into tWOW, but it will be interesting to see if he infects Westeros with Greyscale on his way out. I believe that Arianne's POV will move her towards King's Landing, where she will provide a counterpoint view to Cersei and her madness.

 

Right on schedule, that brings us to King's Landing. Oh boy will things get nuts here in Winds! I feel like the combination of Cersei / Arianne as kind of a yin to her yang POV will work especially well here, and the idea that just as the whirlwind tornadoes into a crescendo, we will interject Jaime's POV and then all the King's horses and all the King's men... well, they won't be putting anyone back together again. Okay sorry that was something, but I couldn't help it... What I mean is that I believe that by the end of Winds, I think there is a more than decent chance that Cersei, Jaime, and Arianne are all dead.

 

In Braavos, I do not believe we will be there for long. Arya / Mercy has blown her cover and overstayed her welcome come the Mercy chapter in Winds, and I don't see her just sitting in Braavos at all after that. I feel like we may not come back to Braavos once she leaves until something of utmost importance brings us back there (lemon trees? Red doors?)...

 

Dorne is interesting. I believe I remember GRRM saying that we will be seeing a lot of Dorne in Winds and I like the sound of that. There is a lot of story to tell still with whatever Doran is planning, and whether or not he will get to see that plan through to fruition since he has barely shared his plans with anyone. I don't see us losing any POV in Dorne since there is so much at play still.

 

I feel the same way about the Vale. We simply do not have enough eyes or information to lose any POV's in the Vale. If anything we need more! There is so much story about to happen there.

 

Hmm, that was a lot of words for I'm not even sure how much information that is different than everyone else, ha. To summarize, I believe that we will lose the following POV's by the end of The Winds of Winter:

 

Brienne

Damphair

Arys Oakheart

Asha

Jon Connington

Cersei

Jaime

Arianne

Victarion

Melisandre (wild card)

Barristan

 

Wow, I killed off way more characters than I thought I would as I come to the end of this post! As some of you have so eloquently put it before me, I had no idea that I would end up typing this much when I started out. It is only because all of you in this thread have been so positive and informative, interesting and provocative with your thoughts and theories that I have felt comfortable coming out of my shell and conversing with you all. Thank you all so much for the wonderful discussion!

Dammit all.   Why doesn't this thing tell me when we have visitors?    Welcome to our discussion and thanks so much for posting your peace.    And your very kind words.    My eyes always light up when I happen across @dornishdame, or @bemusedor @Nevets in other topics.   Fair warning, Friend, if you hang around here for long you will start applying their most singular ideas to your own predictions.    If you haven't had a chance to go back and read everything, you're missing some of the very best stuff this forum has to offer.   Not just the Small Council, either--we've had some excellent minds post their thoughts here.   That is the wonder of speculation.  Enough gushing out of me already.    You've got ideas--a lot of ideas.  I'll bandy with you on a few.   My little correction:  Brienne is last seen lying to Jamie about "the girl" being with The Hound, enticing him to come alone with her.   Believe me, that has me plenty worried for Brienne--and Jamie.   

I wanted to type in a 72 point font "NO!" after you killed off Ser Grampa and my Asha.  Still, I see lots for Barristan Selmy to do clear to the end of the story, but I know GRRM knows I adore this character and will no doubt kill him off to spite me.   Dang it.   But not Asha.   I need Asha to live and if you go back several pages you will see my own twisted reasons for it.   I need Jamie and Brienne to live for the same reasons, so no dead Maids of Tarth or Kingslayers.   All 3 of these characters have been laid low for a reason.   My Judeo-Christian background has me thinking along the lines of character perfection for them.   Jamie is the most glaring example of this, tell me how much you couldn't stand him throughout A Game of Thrones.   Go ahead.   His arc goes hand in hand with Theon's, another one I wanted to sock right in the neck until he was laid so low he had to get up.   Asha's lost her men, her mission, her castle, her bid for the Seastone chair--everything.   She's fixing to lose her brother now.   She hasn't really got much left has she?  She goes hand in hand with Brienne, who had nothing but her goodness and strength and now resorts to cunning against the person she cares most for.    Yah, they're all headed for plenty.   It could easily turn out exactly as you say, but I hope not.   For these 4 I'll give you Theon, Brienne and Jamie all die, but not until ADOS.   I think Asha will survive to the end.   

Ah Vic, The Damphair and The Crow's Eye.  Sigh.  Well, I have to agree 100% that Aeron is a goner.   But I sure hope we get, as you say, at least 1 more epic hallucination/vision.  I enjoy Vic's foolishness and raving.   Moqorro fascinates me and I really would like to know why he's even with Vic.  Will Vic make it to Mereen?  Will he gain a dragon before his brother gets there?   What if Vic gets a dragon and Euron gets Dany?   Yikes.   Still, I am hoping for more from Euron than just another bad bad guy.    I want evil.  I want supernatural evil.   The Forsaken certainly gave me the more I crave, but I want even more.   I need to know who this "him" he needs to get this suitable heir for is.   

Dorne is in a very interesting position with Euron having to pass by enroute to Mereen, particularly if Doran sends his spears to Aegon, for support or war, either way Dorne is vulnerable without their fighters.   Let's see what Euron does before I get all excited about this.  Arianne is another one I expect to see some great intrigue with.  I do hope she will shed some light on Doran's full revenge plot and why Darkstar is the most dangerous man in Dorne.    Obara and Areo should have good times hunting that guy.  Will she make it to King's Landing?    Will Aegon go play savior in the Reach?   Aegon and by association Arianne, could go in a couple of directions, but if they do go North instead of West your Kings Landing scenario is totally plausible.  Do you think she will marry Aegon?   

Could not agree with you more about Oldtown.  Oh Sam will have so much to do and I'm eager to learn what he learns.  But will he actually stay if he finds out Gilly and the baby really were still on the Cinnamon Wind when Marwyn left for Mereen?   

We could go character by character and talk about it until Winds actually publishes.   Who am I kidding, we have and do!   Your offerings are well met here.   I apologize for being a lousy host and not replying sooner.  I'm looking at the button that is clearly marked "notify me of replies".   Feel free to respond to my foolishness or just offer up more death and damnation any time.  It's a great discussion I can't get enough of...

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On 8/29/2016 at 1:14 PM, Nevets said:

Although I have posted my ideas here before, this gives me the chance to summarize and revise my opinion on events in TWOW..  So, what I think will happen, by location.  This is somewhat influenced by events on the show, but I won't discuss exactly what here.

  Far North (2);  Bran, Davos.  Bran will continue to learn about being a greenseer and refine his abilities.  At some point, he will leave the cave, either because he discovers that his interests don't coincide with those of Bloodraven and the Children, or because he needs to be in a location where he can tell people what he has learned.  

Davos will probably pick up Rickon.  At some point, however, he will get involved in the Hardhome evacuation, and, I believe, will end up heading North.  He will be the POV htat ses the Land of Always Winter.  This may or may not involve Benjen.

 

  North and the Wall (4) (They will merge):  Jon, Melisandre, Asha, Theon.  Jon will return rather quickly, although probably not immediately.  Either he is not dead, or is resurrected rather quickly.  While he is out of commission, though, the banker and Jeyne Poole will arrive, and be sent on toward Braavos without the chance to meet Jon.  Melisandre will continue to play a role at the Wall.

Stannis will probably win the battle for Winterfell.  I believe the Pink Letter was written by Ramsay, but doubt the accuracy of its contents.  Asha will survive, Theon probably won't.  I think Stannis will live long enough to have a confrontation with Daenerys ("slayer of lies").

  The Vale (1):  Sansa.  Sansa will get more skilled at political machinations and influencing people.  At some point, she will discover Littlefinger's bad behavior, and destroy him.  I do not see her marrying Aegon, Harry the Heir, or anybody else for the time being.  At some point, she will head North.  I see no reason for her to go anywhere else, especially KL.  And I see the Vale as only a temporary hiding place, not as a permanent home.    

  Riverlands(2):  Jaime, Brienne.  If either one of these dies, I expect it will be Jaime.  It is about time for a shocking death, and Jaime would fit the bill.  If he is not the valonqar, he has nothing he has to do.  I think Brienne will be around for a while, if only because I don't see the point of her AFFC chapters otherwise.  It was way too much for a character who is going to immediately die (I hope).  I wouldn't be surprise if they both survive, though.  I see Brienne joining with Sansa at some point.

  Kings Landing/Stormlands (3):  Cersei, Arianne, JonCon.  These will merge.  JonCon is not long for this world.  I don't think Aegon is either, for that matter.  

  Oldtown/The Reach (1):  Samwell.  Sam will probably discover something important at the Citadel, possibly involving the Others. I think he will visit Horn Hill at some point, and possibly meet his father.  I think he will also get involved with defending against the Ironborn invasion.

  Dorne (1):  Areo Hotah.  May get involved with the hunt for darkstar

  Braavos(1):  Arya.  Her story in Braavos is near an end.  Her killing of Raff will cause a great deal of trouble and will further indicate her unsuitability for the FM. They will probably keep around a bit longer, but I think she is eventually permitted to return to Westeros.  I think a meeting with Jeyne Poole could provide a catalyst for her to desire a return to Westeros.

  East Essos (4):  Daenerys, Tyrion, Barristan, Victarion.  I think Daenerys will go to Vaes Dothrrak and get the support of the Dothraki.  Meanwhile, Tyrion and Barristan will have no luck stabilizing Meereen, and the arrival of the Volantene fleet will cause the loss of Meereen.  Dany's supporters will be forced to flee aboard the Greyjoy fleet.  There has to be some way of getting Dany and Tyrion out of Meereen quickly, and I think a quick loss is more likely than a quick stabilization.

  At sea/dead (1) Aeron.  I haven't paid attention to the new Aeron chapter,, so I can't say much except that I think he is a goner.

 

Dead POVs: JonCon, Aeron, Victarion, Theon.

Possibly dead:  Jaime, Cersei (but probably not both), Barristan.

 

I don't see the need for additional POV's at this time.  Meera could be an addition if he needs additional eyes on Bran's story.  She could also give us info on her dad.  If additional POV's are needed at the Wall while Jon is out, I have an off-the-wall (pun intended) suggestion:  Jeyne Poole.  She could give us an outside view of what is happening without giving very much away.  We could also learn a bit more about her time with LF, among other things.

That's all, for now.  Hope you enjoyed it.

I ALWAYS enjoy where your mind goes, Nevets.   Glad to see you sticking to your ideas for Davos.    As for the near miss with Tycos/Jeyne and Jon--you realize he will wake and believe he missed Arya.   Do you think he will be fine with that or do you think he will be distracted?  Since you bring the show into it...I really enjoyed the hype before the season started with Mel as broken, devoid of her faith and utterly self doubting.   I would love to see that line really explored in Winds--do you think there is a chance this is where it could go and we maybe actually learn something about Mel or Melony?  In my depression after the season ended my happy thought was "my Stannis is still alive and I will see him in Winds".    I miss Stannis and I really want him to do some winning just so I can see how he takes a little victory.  Ditto Sansa though I'll venture to say she goes the way of Elizabeth 1 and never marries again, but I've been submerged in the real history behind GOT on You Tube.   I swear I need another hobby.    With the implosion I sense in the Riverlands anything could and will most likely happen, but Jamie?  You gotta kill off Jaime?  Brienne or Jamie, it's not an easy choice and you did leave an interesting "out" here for me.   Thanks.   Ok you merged our Stormlands/Crownlands POV  and killed off Jon Con, which is most likely, but you left me hanging with which of the ladies takes all.   Will Arianne be the younger, more beautiful queen?  Or will Cersei give Miss Hot Pants over to Qyburn?  Do you think it's possible Gilly wasn't on the Cinnamon Wind?  Why else would Sam go see his dear old Dad?  I personally can't wait to see Obara and Areo interact as a team.   Taking bets now that these will be the chapters with the most quotable lines.    I got nothing for Arya.   She's got to leave Braavos and I think she's got to get back to Westeros, but I honestly can't see her getting in trouble with the FM for anything she does.   Maybe it was an assignment?   I do think her going back with Harrys' entourage is the most expedient way to tie the Braavos line up though.   Her running into Jeyne is very interesting, but I hear so many dark ugly outcomes of this meeting that I'd rather it didn't happen.   How do you see it going down, Nevets?   As I recall you are the one who ruined my whole fantasy of a big win in Mereen for our heroes.  I'm not sure what I hope for anymore out there and Euron is looking more and more like the big bad headed that way.     Anything could happen.   When you do delve into The Forsaken will you come back and let me know what you think?   

So yes, I enjoyed that A LOT.  But I have to admit I'm very curious to know what you take away from our latest Aeron chapter.  

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19 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I ALWAYS enjoy where your mind goes, Nevets.   Glad to see you sticking to your ideas for Davos.    As for the near miss with Tycos/Jeyne and Jon--you realize he will wake and believe he missed Arya.   Do you think he will be fine with that or do you think he will be distracted?  Since you bring the show into it...I really enjoyed the hype before the season started with Mel as broken, devoid of her faith and utterly self doubting.   I would love to see that line really explored in Winds--do you think there is a chance this is where it could go and we maybe actually learn something about Mel or Melony?  In my depression after the season ended my happy thought was "my Stannis is still alive and I will see him in Winds".    I miss Stannis and I really want him to do some winning just so I can see how he takes a little victory.  Ditto Sansa though I'll venture to say she goes the way of Elizabeth 1 and never marries again, but I've been submerged in the real history behind GOT on You Tube.   I swear I need another hobby.    With the implosion I sense in the Riverlands anything could and will most likely happen, but Jamie?  You gotta kill off Jaime?  Brienne or Jamie, it's not an easy choice and you did leave an interesting "out" here for me.   Thanks.   Ok you merged our Stormlands/Crownlands POV  and killed off Jon Con, which is most likely, but you left me hanging with which of the ladies takes all.   Will Arianne be the younger, more beautiful queen?  Or will Cersei give Miss Hot Pants over to Qyburn?  Do you think it's possible Gilly wasn't on the Cinnamon Wind?  Why else would Sam go see his dear old Dad?  I personally can't wait to see Obara and Areo interact as a team.   Taking bets now that these will be the chapters with the most quotable lines.    I got nothing for Arya.   She's got to leave Braavos and I think she's got to get back to Westeros, but I honestly can't see her getting in trouble with the FM for anything she does.   Maybe it was an assignment?   I do think her going back with Harrys' entourage is the most expedient way to tie the Braavos line up though.   Her running into Jeyne is very interesting, but I hear so many dark ugly outcomes of this meeting that I'd rather it didn't happen.   How do you see it going down, Nevets?   As I recall you are the one who ruined my whole fantasy of a big win in Mereen for our heroes.  I'm not sure what I hope for anymore out there and Euron is looking more and more like the big bad headed that way.     Anything could happen.   When you do delve into The Forsaken will you come back and let me know what you think?   

So yes, I enjoyed that A LOT.  But I have to admit I'm very curious to know what you take away from our latest Aeron chapter.  

Jon - I think just missing "Arya" would be disorienting for him, and could make his story more interesting.  I think that with Theon's suggestion that she go on playing Arya, that he is setting Jeyne up to do just that.  Which she can't do if she meets Jon.  And braavos is a logical destination.

Mel - I think we will learn more about her.  I expect she will be the Wall's POV initially, and we'll get some more details about her past and motives.  At least, I sure hope so.

Sansa - I think she will eventually marry, but not in the immediate future.  And I think this refusal could very well put a spoke in LF's plans at some point.

Jaime/Brienne - I would like to see both of them survive, and think it is possible.  Given the buildup Brienne got, I would be quite annoyed if she died immediately.  We need some payoff for having to read about her slog through the Riverlands.  

ARya - I also have trouble seeing Arya's future.  I have seen much speculation about meeting Jeyne when she attempts suicied at HoB&W.  I have doubts about this.  I don't see Martin going that route with her.  I think Arya will simply hear about her doppelganger and go to see who it is.  By the way, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Jeyne is pregnant with Ramsay's child.  I see her inspiring Arya to resume her duties as a Stark and return to Westeros.  With Jeyne in tow.  Maybe still pretending to be Arya, for security reasons.  Kind of like Myrcella and Rosamund.  Although, frankly, anything is possible with this story.

That's all I have for now as I am about to lose my internet access for awhile.

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2 hours ago, Nevets said:

Jon - I think just missing "Arya" would be disorienting for him, and could make his story more interesting.  I think that with Theon's suggestion that she go on playing Arya, that he is setting Jeyne up to do just that.  Which she can't do if she meets Jon.  And braavos is a logical destination.

Mel - I think we will learn more about her.  I expect she will be the Wall's POV initially, and we'll get some more details about her past and motives.  At least, I sure hope so.

Sansa - I think she will eventually marry, but not in the immediate future.  And I think this refusal could very well put a spoke in LF's plans at some point.

Jaime/Brienne - I would like to see both of them survive, and think it is possible.  Given the buildup Brienne got, I would be quite annoyed if she died immediately.  We need some payoff for having to read about her slog through the Riverlands.  

ARya - I also have trouble seeing Arya's future.  I have seen much speculation about meeting Jeyne when she attempts suicied at HoB&W.  I have doubts about this.  I don't see Martin going that route with her.  I think Arya will simply hear about her doppelganger and go to see who it is.  By the way, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Jeyne is pregnant with Ramsay's child.  I see her inspiring Arya to resume her duties as a Stark and return to Westeros.  With Jeyne in tow.  Maybe still pretending to be Arya, for security reasons.  Kind of like Myrcella and Rosamund.  Although, frankly, anything is possible with this story.

That's all I have for now as I am about to lose my internet access for awhile.

Good deal.  That dark ugly stuff I read about Arya meeting Jeyne ventured more along the lines of her killing Jeyne and stealing her face so that she could impersonate her impersonating herself.  Suicide?  Gads, where does this stuff come from?  I still think that Arya, like Brienne, is destined for greatness, not the same greatness as I expect their endgame paths will be greatly different.   I need Sansa to do something, anything really.   I had hope following the Alayne gift last year and maintain that feeling.   I have zero confidence that Sansa will actually kill anyone, but her ability to maneuver is beginning to show in the Winged Knights establishment and tourney.   Can't wait to see that play out.  When you are back in communication let me know what you see in Sweet Robert's future?   I hope he lives despite frickin Little Finger.  Long day at the mines today, time for some early shut eye.    Thanks for checking in and elaborating a little bit.   I'll dream my dreams of learning much more about our Red Priestess since I know I'm not alone in wanting it.   Thanks Nevets.    

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On 9/7/2016 at 8:35 PM, Curled Finger said:

Good deal.  That dark ugly stuff I read about Arya meeting Jeyne ventured more along the lines of her killing Jeyne and stealing her face so that she could impersonate her impersonating herself.  Suicide?  Gads, where does this stuff come from?  I still think that Arya, like Brienne, is destined for greatness, not the same greatness as I expect their endgame paths will be greatly different.   I need Sansa to do something, anything really.   I had hope following the Alayne gift last year and maintain that feeling.   I have zero confidence that Sansa will actually kill anyone, but her ability to maneuver is beginning to show in the Winged Knights establishment and tourney.   Can't wait to see that play out.  When you are back in communication let me know what you see in Sweet Robert's future?   I hope he lives despite frickin Little Finger.  Long day at the mines today, time for some early shut eye.    Thanks for checking in and elaborating a little bit.   I'll dream my dreams of learning much more about our Red Priestess since I know I'm not alone in wanting it.   Thanks Nevets.    

I too ahve seen speculation that she will take Jeyne's face, but I can't imagine why she would do so.  The Boltons would likely maim or torture her on sight, and Littlefinger would probably kill her to keep her quiet.  As for the Northerners, even Arya would have to figure that at least some of them (the Cerwyns, for example) have probably figured out that she was an impostor.  And the only people that would recognize Arya as herself are most likely friendly, like the Brotherhood..  Besides, I don't see Arya killing an innocent in any case.  She hasn't gotten anywhere near that dark.

As for Sweetrobin, I think he lives on.  He seems to be getting stronger, both physically and emotionally, under Sansa's care.  I doubt she will personally kill Littlefinger (although it would not surprise me if she did), but she will arrange for it to happen.  That much I am convinced of.  

Melisandre - Her story is not over.  I think we will see quite a bit more of her.  I think it interesting that she apparently has seen Bran in her visions as an agent of the Great Other.  I wonder where that leads.  Nowhere good, I'm sure.

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