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Curled Finger

Merging Story Lines

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Interesting. Did I miss the rickety bridge scene or are you drawing a parallel to Balon Greyjoy's death?


I'm not drawing a parallel to Balon Greyjoy's death, but rather to the vision/prophesy of the Ghost of High Heart (though her wording is actually a "bridge that swayed and swung"). (Others have concluded that this refers to Balon Greyjoy's death; but I drew no such connection).

The bridge to the Isle of Ravens is not described as "rickety", however. It is described, in Sam's last chapter in AFFC, as a "weathered wooden drawbridge".

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My apologies, Chilly Polly, I misunderstood your post.   I went back to the last Sam and didn't catch any reference so assumed you were drawing comparisons and offering conclusions in allusion.   Incidentally, I thought that was clever.   Now that you explain your real idea there is another possible correlation to consider.  Yikes.  

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"I always imagined Sam would be by Jon's side fighting The Others when the time came. But I never could quite piece it together how he would do it. It takes more time than Sam has to become a full maester who would be appointed to The Wall. I'm open to anything you've got on this one."

 

Perhaps the best point made on Sam's training, I always wondered the same as it seems like even the fastest of learners at the Citadel progress rapidly over years.  I wonder if Sam will become useful to Jon/the Wall through the glass candle.

 

As for cities/plotlines with missing POVs, I suppose Bran chapters provide the ultimate trump card.  So long as there is a Weirwood in the locale with a missing POV.  

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Perhaps the best point made on Sam's training, I always wondered the same as it seems like even the fastest of learners at the Citadel progress rapidly over years.  I wonder if Sam will become useful to Jon/the Wall through the glass candle.

 

As for cities/plotlines with missing POVs, I suppose Bran chapters provide the ultimate trump card.  So long as there is a Weirwood in the locale with a missing POV.  

Thanks for visiting, dembones.   I wish this old thread hadn't lost it's steam so quickly as the possibilities are endless and fun (for me anyway) to speculate upon.   Now I never once even considered Sam being able to use a glass candle to contact Jon.   I'm not sure if there needs to be a reciprocal candle (at the Wall) in order to communicate.  All I can offer is Dany doesn't have an apparent glass candle that we know of and Quaithe manages to chat her up all the time.   If Quaithe's even real and not a break with reality that is.  Let's assume she is.   That opens up all sorts of possibilities for Jon with Sam in an advisory role again.   Perhaps that is how Sam will learn Jon's dead or injured?   Let's take it a step farther and muse over the possibility of someone at the Citadel being responsible for raising/healing Jon!!!  Of course you're right about Bran being the potential eye in the sky for all the places and characters we lose, but I love this idea about the glass candles keeping tabs as well.   I like it, dembones, thanks.   

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Perhaps the best point made on Sam's training, I always wondered the same as it seems like even the fastest of learners at the Citadel progress rapidly over years.  I wonder if Sam will become useful to Jon/the Wall through the glass candle.

That is a very interesting idea that I have never seen posted.  I wonder if you can contact a comatose person the same as a person who is dreaming.

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There are several threads discussing GRRMs intentions to whittle TWOW POVs from 19 (or 22 depending on whether or not you believe Quentin lives, Varys qualifies as a POV and Jon's POV) to 13. I submit that not only will characters die horrible deaths, story lines will merge by necessity. For example, there are 3 POVs in Mereen. If Barristan and Victarion die or band together with Tyrion the entire story can be told from a single POV. Not to mention Mereen will have its own Mod Squad.

 

I think it's worth noting that once a character has POV chapters, they only cease to have POV chapters upon their deaths.  No character "loses" POV chapters while remaining alive.

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Thanks.  I've often tried to wrap my head around Sam's storyline.  I thought we would get a ton more out the Sam/Aemon exchanges.  I believe the main point of him going to Oldtown was not to return to the wall ASAP, but to bring Oldtown into the fold.  Namely to finally get some information and influence from the Hightowers.  I also think that more interaction with Faceless Pate, Sarella/Alleras/that whole crew will allow Arya's and the Dorne storyline to develop in unison with Sam's/the Wall's.  I think the main purpose is to provide more answers on what the maesters know about the Others and as stated above for Sam to use the glass candle to help Jon.  I can't figure out what's up with Sarella, though.  

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That is a very interesting idea that I have never seen posted.  I wonder if you can contact a comatose person the same as a person who is dreaming.

Dany was pretty sick, I'd go as far as to say she was hallucinating last time Quaithe visited her, so why not, right?  The glass candles are a clever idea used in the way dembones proposes.   I've spoken with many health care professionals who insist the unconscious and even comatose patients can hear and encourage family members to talk with them.   Wouldn't it be a gas if Mel has nothing to do with resurrecting Jon!   

There are several threads discussing GRRMs intentions to whittle TWOW POVs from 19 (or 22 depending on whether or not you believe Quentin lives, Varys qualifies as a POV and Jon's POV) to 13. I submit that not only will characters die horrible deaths, story lines will merge by necessity. For example, there are 3 POVs in Mereen. If Barristan and Victarion die or band together with Tyrion the entire story can be told from a single POV. Not to mention Mereen will have its own Mod Squad.

 

I think it's worth noting that once a character has POV chapters, they only cease to have POV chapters upon their deaths.  No character "loses" POV chapters while remaining alive.

That's sort of how I created this little thread in the 1st place--to abate the depression that hit me when i realized I was surely losing a large chunk of the POVs--what sort of story will it be without Cersei's so special brand of madness.  There are NOT 6 POVs I am even willing to part with---i need more Mel POVs.  So this is the alternative to losing them.   I don't buy it that simply because that's the way it's worked previously that it has to remain the rule.  I do think we'll keep Jamie and Brienne, but through a single POV if they stay together.   Who knows?   Maybe the show has some right of it but it's too early for us to know because we aren't in on all the cool stuff to come.   Maybe Mel and Davos do end up together in a single POV.   I hate that, but who knows.  

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Ergh!!!!!!!  I can't quote and wanted to give you a special reply dembones.   So I can't quote (tried 3 freaking times ended up shutting down my browser even), but in response to your last post...this really is an original idea you have.   It's a long and frustrating wait between books.   I see you have only a few posts, but you are obviously a reader and love this story.   You are articulate and everyone in this little corner will back you up that we saw you say it right here.   Create a thread so everyone can discuss this.   Debate gets intense and silly, but it's also very useful for the detective work we do in this forum.  Your idea deserves some exclusively focused discussion.   Please send me a message when you do so I can put my 2 cents in with you!   Thanks for breathing a little life into my comatose thread and don't be shy about coming back to say whatever's on your mind about any other POVs.  

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Dany was pretty sick, I'd go as far as to say she was hallucinating last time Quaithe visited her, so why not, right?  The glass candles are a clever idea used in the way dembones proposes.   I've spoken with many health care professionals who insist the unconscious and even comatose patients

Ergh!!!!!!!  I can't quote and wanted to give you a special reply dembones.   So I can't quote (tried 3 freaking times ended up shutting down my browser even), but in response to your last post...this really is an original idea you have.   It's a long and frustrating wait between books.   I see you have only a few posts, but you are obviously a reader and love this story.   You are articulate and everyone in this little corner will back you up that we saw you say it right here.   Create a thread so everyone can discuss this.   Debate gets intense and silly, but it's also very useful for the detective work we do in this forum.  Your idea deserves some exclusively focused discussion.   Please send me a message when you do so I can put my 2 cents in with you!   Thanks for breathing a little life into my comatose thread and don't be shy about coming back to say whatever's on your mind about any other POVs.  

Thanks man.  Huge fan of the books/series and this forum for a while but only as a listener.  Just started attemtping to contribute my thoughts recently.  I just started a post on this topic pending approval.

 

Dany was pretty sick, I'd go as far as to say she was hallucinating last time Quaithe visited her, so why not, right?  The glass candles are a clever idea used in the way dembones proposes.   I've spoken with many health care professionals who insist the unconscious and even comatose patients can hear and encourage family members to talk with them.   Wouldn't it be a gas if Mel has nothing to do with resurrecting Jon!   

 

As an aside, I also happen to be a physician, so to speak to your above statement on talking to the comatose you are spot on.  Interestingly, when a patient is given anesthesia, studies have shown that hearing is the last sense to go and the first sense to return.  

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Morning Wyman. I heard a really cool version of the battle of Mereen on Radio Westeros. Lady Gwen played anchor while Yolk Boy, Brynden Bfish and I think Aziz from History of Westeros played reporters on the front lines. It's well worth the listen if you haven't yet heard it.

Hey, I started listening to Yolk Boy and Lady G too.

Anyways, regarding the "merge", Bran's POVs may cover lots of action as he visits the past, present, and future.

No matter what, I want a Ghost POV.

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Hey, I started listening to Yolk Boy and Lady G too.

Anyways, regarding the "merge", Bran's POVs may cover lots of action as he visits the past, present, and future.

No matter what, I want a Ghost POV

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I think Sams POV is important sice he is the key to all of the Oldtown information. I think its possible Davos may sit out until the end of the book when several charcters have died or maybe being the epilogue(which sucks cause hes my favorite) I am thinking Barristan is a good candidate for the prologue, where he dies, but leaves clues about the past, perhaps talking to Tyrion, so the reader can find out the Rhaegar stuff.

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Didn't George say that Jeyne Westerling would be in the Prologue? My money is on the prologue being a Lannister/Frey guard or a Brotherhood without Banners grunt. We're going to see the BwB liberate Greatjon and the RW prisoners since Tom O'Sevens knew about the transport. 

 

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Didn't George say that Jeyne Westerling would be in the Prologue? My money is on the prologue being a Lannister/Frey guard or a Brotherhood without Banners grunt. We're going to see the BwB liberate Greatjon and the RW prisoners since Tom O'Sevens knew about the transport. 

 

Now that you say it, I do remember hearing that somewhere. Obviously that means Barry doesnt die immediately. I forgot there was a sample chapter of his released. I havent read it yet.

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My fav. POVs are Starks little bit more Bran and Jon Lots of dont count Bran but he is in top 3 for me anyways I think All people agree in the world Jon will have stage even  more in the Tvshow but What about Bran I love reading theories about Bran how he is chosen one last hero kign in the North. However at this point he is wild card and evern GRMM dont know answear because he didnt finish series I am sure he is almost done with Winds of the winter (I HOPE SO) but there is final beast to slat Dream of spring so lots of way to go I believe Bran will be centre series or will stay 1 or 2 important ch in the book and finish series like that or He is have increasing dominace towards the end .......

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I think Sams POV is important sice he is the key to all of the Oldtown information. I think its possible Davos may sit out until the end of the book when several charcters have died or maybe being the epilogue(which sucks cause hes my favorite) I am thinking Barristan is a good candidate for the prologue, where he dies, but leaves clues about the past, perhaps talking to Tyrion, so the reader can find out the Rhaegar stuff.

You know I've been thinking right along those lines, too, that Barristan knows much more than we know about the Lyanna situation.  I hope we will get more information from him, though I'm unsure exactly how since Dany seemed to be the confidante.  Rickon's been hyped so heavily to figure in to the Winterfell story line.   It is something of a game changer to leave him hanging for the entire book.  As a Davos fan, I'm eager to have the adventure to and from Skaggos with him.  See what's really up with those mysterious Skaggosi.  See exactly where Davos takes Rickon, which I expect to be important.  Upthread dembones 10 brought a neat thing about Sam and the glass candles to light.  I get this itchy feeling that Sam will have an extremely interesting plot in Winds.  But, please Dulcinea, no prologues from any of these characters--those guys always end up dead and I'm not ready to let any of them go.    Give Mel a prologue, but not these guys!  

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Ugh--another update renders me quote disabled. But I knew it was coming and got proactive...

Didn't George say that Jeyne Westerling would be in the Prologue? My money is on the prologue being a Lannister/Frey guard or a Brotherhood without Banners grunt. We're going to see the BwB liberate Greatjon and the RW prisoners since Tom O'Sevens knew about the transport. 

 

Didn't George say that Jeyne Westerling would be in the Prologue? My money is on the prologue being a Lannister/Frey guard or a Brotherhood without Banners grunt. We're going to see the BwB liberate Greatjon and the RW prisoners since Tom O'Sevens knew about the transport. 

 

GET GREATJON LIBERATION HYPE!   Yes!   I am hoping TWOW will reunite the RW survivors and we find out what the contents of Robb's will are.   In my fantasy scenario they all end up at the neck and Howland Reed has to decide what to do with all the information.  The GreatJon Umber's reemergence will vitalize many in the North.   I get the feeling there are several smaller GNCs as opposed to a single conspiracy they are all involved with.   GreatJon's return will hopefully clarify what the conspiracy is exactly and reunite the nobles to a single cause.   Rickon?  Jon?  Bran?  Sansa?  I hope to see GreatJon interact with the Wildlings, too.   (Is it too much to let me witness GreatJon meeting Stannis, too?)  Let the badassery begin.     

As to the Westerling/Tully relocation service...I've seen much discussion regarding who/what will pull this extraction off.    Will it be Nymeria and her pack?   The BWB?   Blackfish?   My money is on Blackfish playing a major role in this, but it sure would be nice to see how fierce Nymeria has become.   Maybe a Summer peak at her actions that give some real intel.    Ultimately I see the BWB organizing a real insurgence, bringing several POVs together. How about you? 

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My fav. POVs are Starks little bit more Bran and Jon Lots of dont count Bran but he is in top 3 for me anyways I think All people agree in the world Jon will have stage even  more in the Tvshow but What about Bran I love reading theories about Bran how he is chosen one last hero kign in the North. However at this point he is wild card and evern GRMM dont know answear because he didnt finish series I am sure he is almost done with Winds of the winter (I HOPE SO) but there is final beast to slat Dream of spring so lots of way to go I believe Bran will be centre series or will stay 1 or 2 important ch in the book and finish series like that or He is have increasing dominace towards the end .......

Yep, you get 1 quote then you have to copy and paste your replies, sorry Mehmet, I'm am trying very hard to find a work around here...please excuse the double quote, I'm not sure when this reply function works or not...

My fav. POVs are Starks little bit more Bran and Jon Lots of dont count Bran but he is in top 3 for me anyways I think All people agree in the world Jon will have stage even  more in the Tvshow but What about Bran I love reading theories about Bran how he is chosen one last hero kign in the North. However at this point he is wild card and evern GRMM dont know answear because he didnt finish series I am sure he is almost done with Winds of the winter (I HOPE SO) but there is final beast to slat Dream of spring so lots of way to go I believe Bran will be centre series or will stay 1 or 2 important ch in the book and finish series like that or He is have increasing dominace towards the end .......

I think you're probably right about Bran's importance.  I don't see him wed to trees or stuck in caves at all and expect him to merge with a POV or 2 as well in future chapters.  However, while Bran is in the cave let's hope we get a little more backstory on Blood Raven and a true scope of his powers.   If I may go off on a little part detective/part fantasy idea...I think it's possible Bran will be the one to merge the most POVs.  I expect him to be able to "summon" (through dreams and anything at his disposal) the 12 companions to present day Last Hero.   I expect at least 13 swords to play into this and I expect to learn a heck of a lot more about the nature of VS and Dawn.  As I see it, the magic swords are all introduced for a reason and I'm working on a spreadsheet to determine which character is at least in the last or mostly likely location of the lost (and whereabouts unknown) VS swords.   I've almost determined who I'd like to see as the 12 companions, but with all the true knight and honor themes throughout the story it would be a shame not to have this brilliantly illustrated in this way.   Dying in this noble cause would place suitable penance on each companion's transgressions...in my mind anyway.    

   

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Ugh--another update renders me quote disabled. But I knew it was coming and got proactive...

 

GET GREATJON LIBERATION HYPE!   Yes!   I am hoping TWOW will reunite the RW survivors and we find out what the contents of Robb's will are.   In my fantasy scenario they all end up at the neck and Howland Reed has to decide what to do with all the information.  The GreatJon Umber's reemergence will vitalize many in the North.   I get the feeling there are several smaller GNCs as opposed to a single conspiracy they are all involved with.   GreatJon's return will hopefully clarify what the conspiracy is exactly and reunite the nobles to a single cause.   Rickon?  Jon?  Bran?  Sansa?  I hope to see GreatJon interact with the Wildlings, too.   (Is it too much to let me witness GreatJon meeting Stannis, too?)  Let the badassery begin.     

As to the Westerling/Tully relocation service...I've seen much discussion regarding who/what will pull this extraction off.    Will it be Nymeria and her pack?   The BWB?   Blackfish?   My money is on Blackfish playing a major role in this, but it sure would be nice to see how fierce Nymeria has become.   Maybe a Summer peak at her actions that give some real intel.    Ultimately I see the BWB organizing a real insurgence, bringing several POVs together. How about you? 

Imagine one of the brotherhood with a hatchet trying to cut through his chains, he gets halfway done and the Greatjon tells him to back off. He breaks the chains himself and all the guards just soil their pants as he literally becomes his sigil. I wish the Greatjon never left the show, that would be a visual I would kill to see. 

Tom O'Sevens being at Riverun makes me think that the Brotherhood without Banners will lead the liberation. It will bring together the prisoners, Lady Stoneheart, Jamie, and Brienne. They will force Jamie to help them pull off the Red Wedding to on Davens wedding, but when it comes down to it, those who survived the wedding will refuse. They will kill LS, probably Jamie and Brienne giving the final blow, and this will be something Jamie uses to bring the west into the fold with the North when he hears Aegon or Euron has taken the throne. 

Then we'll hopefully have Jon marching south with or without Stannnis. Sansa marching with the Knights of the Vale. Asha speeding back to the Iron Islands with Theon to try and usurp Euron. 

At least I hope. And when we hope in this series, it seldom comes to pass.

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