Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Curled Finger

Merging Story Lines

Recommended Posts

15 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

You did it again, suicide never once crossed my mind for Asha.  As you illustrate, she really hasn't got anything left.  I recently reread The Sacrifice and was stuck on Asha offering to be Stannis' man.   Egad, in the light you offer, she prefers service to Stannis over returning home.   I was so used to Asha being strong and decisive I completely missed her desolation in defeat.  Good thing my job doesn't require me to be empathetic or deductive.  

Your points are spot on as usual.   When I offered Davos up as a possible POV I was only going to the next POV in the area.   To that I can only offer that anything can happen.  Do you know how much time Davos actually had before our Theon chapter?   I wonder if it's possible Mel gets a peak in her flames from the ruby Mance is wearing--I don't know, it just seems like a big old gaping hole to me not to have anyone there.   On 2nd though NO.  I would rather have no one there than have to jump through the hoops of trying to figure out what she sees.    

I'm not opposed to seeing things through Bran's eyes and this is becoming more and more likely as the conversation goes.  This will no doubt give Bran the chance to really learn his new abilities and build that greenseeing muscle.   And work on his warg as well.  My only exception to fully embracing this is the adventures I want Bran & his gang to have beyond the cave and Blood Raven.   I guess we could get it all it's just a foggy concept right now.  

See, this is what I love about the Forums and ASOIAF in general - there are so many character actions, motivations etc that are open to interpretation and to debate. And reading other people's ideas can open up entirely new interpretations of characters and events as well as force you to think about areas of the series you may have neglected previously.

I'm not even sure that suicide is the word I would use regarding Asha, but perhaps her sense of defeat and desire for a good death amount to pretty much the same thing.  I think we are used to her being the strong one (in contrast to Theon) and we pay a lot of attention to Balon thinking his daughter could rule the ironborn. And yet, looking back perhaps she left escaping from Deepwood Motte too late in the same way that Theon stayed in Winterfell. 

I don't have a precise timeline for Theon vs Davos - I remember seeing one online somewhere, but cannot recall where! I like the idea of Bran seeing events through the weirwood network - perhaps he could see a meeting in the Godswood that would give us an idea of conspirators inside Winterfell? In Jon IV in Dance he discusses the Umbers with Stannis:

"Can this man Mors be trusted?" asked Stannis.

Has Mors Umber bent the knee? "Your Grace should have him swear an oath before his heart tree."

Though Wyman Manderly seems to prefer meetings in the privy, if there is a large conspiracy within Winterfell to seize power from Roose Bolton, perhaps they would make pledges to each other in front of a heart tree, sacred to Northmen? It need only be one or two people in discussion, not all those involved. That would at least allow Bran to see something and negate the need for yet another POV. If nothing else, the Winterfell heart tree is hardly a place they would bump into a Frey. Plus. Bran seems to have been able to see 'live' into the Winterfell Godswood before, when he tried to communicate with Theon. So there is some precedence. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 9:57 AM, dornishdame said:

See, this is what I love about the Forums and ASOIAF in general - there are so many character actions, motivations etc that are open to interpretation and to debate. And reading other people's ideas can open up entirely new interpretations of characters and events as well as force you to think about areas of the series you may have neglected previously.

I'm not even sure that suicide is the word I would use regarding Asha, but perhaps her sense of defeat and desire for a good death amount to pretty much the same thing.  I think we are used to her being the strong one (in contrast to Theon) and we pay a lot of attention to Balon thinking his daughter could rule the ironborn. And yet, looking back perhaps she left escaping from Deepwood Motte too late in the same way that Theon stayed in Winterfell. 

I don't have a precise timeline for Theon vs Davos - I remember seeing one online somewhere, but cannot recall where! I like the idea of Bran seeing events through the weirwood network - perhaps he could see a meeting in the Godswood that would give us an idea of conspirators inside Winterfell? In Jon IV in Dance he discusses the Umbers with Stannis:

"Can this man Mors be trusted?" asked Stannis.

Has Mors Umber bent the knee? "Your Grace should have him swear an oath before his heart tree."

Though Wyman Manderly seems to prefer meetings in the privy, if there is a large conspiracy within Winterfell to seize power from Roose Bolton, perhaps they would make pledges to each other in front of a heart tree, sacred to Northmen? It need only be one or two people in discussion, not all those involved. That would at least allow Bran to see something and negate the need for yet another POV. If nothing else, the Winterfell heart tree is hardly a place they would bump into a Frey. Plus. Bran seems to have been able to see 'live' into the Winterfell Godswood before, when he tried to communicate with Theon. So there is some precedence. 

Dame, I beg your pardon for the late reply.  I've been unable to reply all week long.   I've switched to IE (ugh) from Chrome and it seems to have done the trick.   Those Northerners are so secretive and all seem to be playing a long game--would they take a chance on some louse overhearing a vow or pact before the trees?  You always set a nice table with your scenarios and tbh, this is the most reasonable way it will happen.  All I know is I can't wait to read it because the suspense only leads to more questions.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Dame, I beg your pardon for the late reply.  I've been unable to reply all week long.   I've switched to IE (ugh) from Chrome and it seems to have done the trick.   Those Northerners are so secretive and all seem to be playing a long game--would they take a chance on some louse overhearing a vow or pact before the trees?  You always set a nice table with your scenarios and tbh, this is the most reasonable way it will happen.  All I know is I can't wait to read it because the suspense only leads to more questions.  

You have my sympathies with the technical issues - I've had problems all week with Chrome running videos. Maybe there is some sort of wider issue? 

You do have a point about them not wanting to be overheard. Whether or not you believe in the GNC theory (and I do, to some extent at least) it is clear that the likes of Manderly will not give in easily, and the Umbers having people on both sides again suggests, as you say, that some are playing a long game - trying, at the very least, to end up on the winning side. And while Barbrey Ryswell seems to be one of Roose's biggest supporters, I think she would be one of the first to jump ship if he looked like drowning. Plus she was very fond of her nephew Domeric, whom many suspect of being a Ramsay murder victim. Their loyalty seems to be to Roose - it is interesting to think of how long Ramsay would last if Roose was removed from the picture. It seems to be him holding that alliance together. 

The heart tree is, however, still for me the most likely place we will be able to get an eye on what is happening inside Winterfell.  

And I can't wait to read it either. Sometimes I wonder if I am approaching my thinking of what will happen next in a way that is too logical as GRRM is sooooo much smarter than I am. In any case, this again falls into the category of things we won't know for sure until Winds.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, dornishdame said:

You have my sympathies with the technical issues - I've had problems all week with Chrome running videos. Maybe there is some sort of wider issue? 

You do have a point about them not wanting to be overheard. Whether or not you believe in the GNC theory (and I do, to some extent at least) it is clear that the likes of Manderly will not give in easily, and the Umbers having people on both sides again suggests, as you say, that some are playing a long game - trying, at the very least, to end up on the winning side. And while Barbrey Ryswell seems to be one of Roose's biggest supporters, I think she would be one of the first to jump ship if he looked like drowning. Plus she was very fond of her nephew Domeric, whom many suspect of being a Ramsay murder victim. Their loyalty seems to be to Roose - it is interesting to think of how long Ramsay would last if Roose was removed from the picture. It seems to be him holding that alliance together. 

The heart tree is, however, still for me the most likely place we will be able to get an eye on what is happening inside Winterfell.  

And I can't wait to read it either. Sometimes I wonder if I am approaching my thinking of what will happen next in a way that is too logical as GRRM is sooooo much smarter than I am. In any case, this again falls into the category of things we won't know for sure until Winds.  

Thanks Dame.   If God were to come to me right this minute and ask, Do you want Winds of Winter or do you want Windows 7 back I would have a very tough time deciding.    I'm not sure if all the tech issues I've been having are related to the site upgrade or the frickin' abomination that is Windows   I will tell you that the posts in the help section are borderline offensive--no less than 3 threads about quote & reply issues and some genius writes it off as some users just don't know how to use the forum.   Try IE for playing your videos, I couldn't use IE when Windows 10 1st came out and now I can't use Crome when visiting Westeros.org.  Whatever you do, keep posting as I do enjoy reading your ideas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey, I started listening to Yolk Boy and Lady G too.

Anyways, regarding the "merge", Bran's POVs may cover lots of action as he visits the past, present, and future.

No matter what, I want a Ghost POV

Ghost POV would be amazing. I just finished all of the Radio Westros podcasts, they are so great. This is a good thread...hope it stays going.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, A Song of Ass and Fire said:

I could see Arya assassinating Daenerys, disposing of her body, and using her new face changing skills to take her place.

Morbidly, you're not alone.  I'm not sold on Arya being able to actually take Dany's or anyone's place.   Arya has no Valyrian blood.  Depending on how you feel about this, chances are 50/50 she wouldn't be able to control the dragons.   Dany's playing a long game where Arya is limited to shorter finite assignments.  I know how tedious Dany's story can be at times, but my 5th reread gave me renewed hope for her story.  Are you interested in getting rid of Dany and her extremely slow progress or do you just want Arya to come home and get busy kicking ass and taking names?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, winterfellsedai said:

Ghost POV would be amazing. I just finished all of the Radio Westros podcasts, they are so great. This is a good thread...hope it stays going.

Thanks, winterfellsedai, I have a lot of fun here.   We will go for months without a post then someone will just stop in and say what's on their mind and I get a kick out of all the varying POVs of my fellow readers.  Since New Years I can't bring myself to wear any of my GOT T-shirts. I'm  Angry, disappointed and sulking.   I may, however, invest in a Radio Westeros T Shirt as Yolk Boy & Lady Gwen NEVER let me down.  

A Ghost POV?   It would be amazing.   I'll tell you the truth, I'm not an animal lover.  The only pet I ever actually had for any length of time was an iguana and as attached as I was to her, she didn't fetch or cuddle or really do much of anything other than sit on my head and hog the heating pad. So I don't really understand all the wolf & horse love.   I didn't get the big deal about Lady's execution until my 3rd reread (that's the one I consider the real 1st read--I had an idea what I was seeing on the pages).   GRRM does an unbelievable job telling a story from the wolves' perspectives.   It's not cutesy or dumbed down and tells exactly what the associated human can't.   He's able to entwine Summer and Bran beautifully so that I really get the feel for the environment as well as deeper inner monologue.   I will see your Ghost POV and raise you Nymeria in Winds, my friend.    These wolves are developing some very interesting personalities.    For all the talk of the Starks reuniting, I can't wait to see the pack reunite. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Morbidly, you're not alone.  I'm not sold on Arya being able to actually take Dany's or anyone's place.   Arya has no Valyrian blood.  Depending on how you feel about this, chances are 50/50 she wouldn't be able to control the dragons.   Dany's playing a long game where Arya is limited to shorter finite assignments.  I know how tedious Dany's story can be at times, but my 5th reread gave me renewed hope for her story.  Are you interested in getting rid of Dany and her extremely slow progress or do you just want Arya to come home and get busy kicking ass and taking names?

I just think that Daenerys is one of the major characters that Arya might be able to successfully impersonate if she got a little time to observe her... Nobody would be too surprised if she did or said something stupid or immature or inconsistent with her previous actions... And she is a small female, Arya might be getting close to her size before long, and it would be a great twist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, A Song of Ass and Fire said:

I just think that Daenerys is one of the major characters that Arya might be able to successfully impersonate if she got a little time to observe her... Nobody works be to surprised if she did or said something stupid or immature or inconsistent with her previous actions... And she is a small female, Arya might be getting close to size before long, and it works be a great twist.

You have a point there on the size and personality.  What do you think Arya would or could  do as "Dany"?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was very interesting to read trough this thread, lots of things to consider. I would like to point ou that using Bran as an eye in the sky seems rather unlikely to me, first because he also has to look at the past, beyond the wall and some interaction at the cave, so that would mean either many and long chapters or the "looking" to be more akin to "glimpsing" particular conversations (which is no replacement for a loca POV), second (and a bit meta) GRRM said somewhere that Bran's POV are the hardest and most time consuming chapter for him to write, so I would think he would avoid writing more of them than he absolutely has to, but then again it would help explain the eons we've been waiting for the book.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

You have a point there on the size and personality.  What do you think Arya would or could  do as "Dany"?  

Redirect her armies to take out her enemies and protect her family.  Cause the invasion to fail.  Wipe out the Lannisters even if they agreed to bend the knee and tried to ally with her.  Give dragons to Jon... Marry Jon....All kinds of possibilities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Blade of Sunlight said:

It was very interesting to read trough this thread, lots of things to consider. I would like to point ou that using Bran as an eye in the sky seems rather unlikely to me, first because he also has to look at the past, beyond the wall and some interaction at the cave, so that would mean either many and long chapters or the "looking" to be more akin to "glimpsing" particular conversations (which is no replacement for a loca POV), second (and a bit meta) GRRM said somewhere that Bran's POV are the hardest and most time consuming chapter for him to write, so I would think he would avoid writing more of them than he absolutely has to, but then again it would help explain the eons we've been waiting for the book.

I wasn't the biggest fan of seeing a chunk of the story from Bran's vantage point, but it is becoming clear that there are some real blind spots where we don't have any character at all to tell the tale.  Between Bran and the glass candles I think we can save more POVs than I honestly expected when first posting this topic.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My guesses--totally willing to be wrong about this, but my gut feelings:

Arya - leaves Braavos not long after the Mercy chapter. To likely assassinate Dany somewhere before she reaches Westeros. She'll go through the other Free Cities and be a witness to their destruction via the dragons though. Arya will likely end up learning about Dany the conqueror however and being Arya and having always been attracted to the idea of a female warrior conqueror (Nymeria & Visenya), she'll abandon her mission and join Dany, fully embracing her turn towards her desire for revenge. She likely doesn't reveal her true self to Dany--but might as a way of severing ties from the House of Black and White for forever.

Sansa - will get abducted by the Mad Mouse when she's revealed at the Tournament to be Sansa Stark too early by the Royces (via Myranda's snooping). The Mad Mouse makes off with her, Brienne eventually rescues her.

Victarion - will likely remain until close to the end of the book when he'll die IMO. He'll blow the horn thinking it'll bind the dragon to him, but it will feel as though he's burning up from the inside and instead both of Dany's dragons will go rogue and abandon Mereen to cause havoc as they fly west--eventually destroying the Free Cities, will slowly wither and die. He's there to cause Viserion and Rhaegal to go mad and disobey Dany even more, but also show us what Euron's horn does to dragons and those that blow it. Many will complain that they had to suffer Victarion's chapters in AFFC just to have him die like Quentyn, I'm predicting. Quentyn freed the dragons, Victarion will make them go wild and disobedient.

Tyrion - remains in Mereen and eventually meets up with Dany. He's not easily accepted into her rank, but is instead the Second Sons' representative to Dany, and manages to weasel his way into her acceptance by that route. Likely his ticket in to Dany will be his knowledge of dragons from all his years of study, where he'll say he can get her children back for her, at the price of Casterly Rock for him.

Arianne - will replace Cersei as the King's Landing POV & Jon Con as the Aegon POV. How the Tyrells and the Faith are dealt with will be dealt with in her chapters until the freed dragons cross the Narrow Sea and destroy the city in a rain of fire. Aegon tries to control one of them and fails, with Arianne likely fleeing the destroyed city. In this manner she'll be so burned that she'll die from her injuries. Thus leaving Doran's only heir to be Trystane.

Theon - Theon's likely to survive Stannis and be sent on a mission to help in the battle of Winterfell (showing how he got in the first time). I see Theon dying in the Battle of Winterfell or falling back to a non-POV character after Winterfell is taken again.

Dany - Goes to Vaes Dothrak, gathers all the Dothraki under her and Drogon's leadership, then returns to Mereen and takes the ships to West to chase after her now wild children. She sacks Mereen Dothraki style, utterly destroying it as she fully embraces "Fire & Blood" style of total warfare and leaves behind her arc of wanting to be a good Queen for wanting to be a good Conqueror. She'll meet again with Illyrio, who will likely reveal that he somehow got her mother's crown for her back again and sell the idea of her being Aegon's wife and how Aegon is waiting to marry her in King's Landing, having taken the city. The revelation of her mother's crown will cause Dany to question some of her past, revealing Illyrio and Varys used Dany and Viserys as decoys to keep Robert occupied while they trained the true King in secret. Thus they always had to be on the run and why Varys allowed for Robert to get close to killing them many times, but never fully allowed it to happen either. Dany has her hoard sack Pentos (mirroring how Pentos essentially bought off Khal Drogo before, only to receive it worse when it came back round again), before setting sail for Westeros with Arya.

Bran - continues his training until he discovers something dark and disturbing and is put with a moral quandary. Either the Three Eyed Raven wasn't really Bloodraven--but instead someone else trying to manipulate Bran--perhaps a former pupil of Bloodraven's that's since gone rogue and is trying to bring about the Long Night by messing with Bloodraven's chosen new apprentice. Confused and conflicted, Bran leaves the cave and learns more about the Others' society.

Jon Snow - we will no longer get his POV, he will still be around, but we will lose his POV because of his resurrection & also because he, like Jaime, came to a conclusion which ended his conflict of the heart

Cersei - will go mad when she realizes that her "twin" has chosen to die alone and separate from her, which was his choice. She'll flee to Casterly Rock and make her last stand there.

Jaime - his story is practically over IMO. Brienne will attempt to save him, but Jaime won't let her and he'll die satisfied that in the last moment he made the right choice and was the knight he always wanted to be. He will also have finally completely broken with Cersei to the fullest extent as Cersei expects to die together with Jaime, but Jaime chooses to die alone and a hero to someone who truly matters, thus earning something noble and honorable to put down in the White Book, but ironically never will be (until Brienne later is on the Kingsguard--but that's my ADOS predictions)

Samwell - Will continue in Oldtown, and likely get in trouble when he realizes just what "Pate" is doing, will witness the Ironborn sacking Oldtown, and flee with Gilly to his father's house at Hornhill where he'll reunite with his mother and sisters briefly, likely running into Obara as she chases Darkstar from Starfall. Word reaches Sam of the Wall having fallen and Sam is left with the choice of returning North to be a true Brother of the Night's Watch or to be a coward and hide in the South. Sam chooses for once to be a brother--albeit one who hasn't become a full maester yet, and journies North, perhaps traveling with Obara (or not) for a bit.

Brienne - Will take over Jaime's job as POV in the Riverlands. Will witness the carnage of Red Wedding 2.0 at Riverrun, and eventually run into Sansa and the Mad Mouse as the Mouse tries to get Sansa to Casterly Rock where Cersei has set up shop. Brienne will do battle with the Mouse for Sansa's protection.

Davos - He'll get Rickon and IMO likely return to Castle Black where Rickon will come to less than friendly environment with an anti-Jon Snow faction in charge. Davos just manages to escape with Rickon and head south in search of Stannis, instead running in to Jon Snow and he's our POV with Jon Snow. He'll likely die not long after reaching Stannis' camp due to not being able to bear the cold.

Asha - Will be our POV to Stannis and Jon Snow after Davos' death and as Stannis takes Winterfell. She'll discover herself pregnant and with child, thus unknowingly fulfilling the whole "when the Kraken and Dragon wed" idea that Euron keeps going on and on about.

Barristan - Will die in the Battle for Mereen, most likely by the Shavepate's hands IMO for him being so foolish as to trust him

Aeron - Our POV to the invasion of the Reach up on the Mander (separate half of the fleet from the one attacking Oldtown). Likely dies during the campaign at the end of the novel.

Melisandre - will take Jon Snow's place as the Wall POV and give us further insight into events around Jon Snow while he remains at the Wall. When he leaves, she's tempted to go as well, but she remains at the Wall and ends up burning Shireen and going insane herself. She dies at the Wall, either by the anti-Jon Snow faction, her throwing herself onto the burn pile, or when the Wall comes crashing down on top of her.

Aero - will travel to Starfall IMO, and end up dead in battle against Darkstar, thus revealing whatever it is about the Daynes that GRRM considers a "spoiler" to his story (like the words of House Dayne)

Jon Con - will die of greyscale at some point, with Arianne taking his place, but not before infecting the Stormlands and Crownlands however.

So at the end of TWOW, Westeros is being attacked on three major fronts: Dragons from the East, Krakens from the West, and Others from the North.

I could very easily be wrong--but that's my guesses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, WhitewolfStark said:

My guesses--totally willing to be wrong about this, but my gut feelings:

Arya - leaves Braavos not long after the Mercy chapter. To likely assassinate Dany somewhere before she reaches Westeros. She'll go through the other Free Cities and be a witness to their destruction via the dragons though. Arya will likely end up learning about Dany the conqueror however and being Arya and having always been attracted to the idea of a female warrior conqueror (Nymeria & Visenya), she'll abandon her mission and join Dany, fully embracing her turn towards her desire for revenge. She likely doesn't reveal her true self to Dany--but might as a way of severing ties from the House of Black and White for forever.

Sansa - will get abducted by the Mad Mouse when she's revealed at the Tournament to be Sansa Stark too early by the Royces (via Myranda's snooping). The Mad Mouse makes off with her, Brienne eventually rescues her.

Victarion - will likely remain until close to the end of the book when he'll die IMO. He'll blow the horn thinking it'll bind the dragon to him, but it will feel as though he's burning up from the inside and instead both of Dany's dragons will go rogue and abandon Mereen to cause havoc as they fly west--eventually destroying the Free Cities, will slowly wither and die. He's there to cause Viserion and Rhaegal to go mad and disobey Dany even more, but also show us what Euron's horn does to dragons and those that blow it. Many will complain that they had to suffer Victarion's chapters in AFFC just to have him die like Quentyn, I'm predicting. Quentyn freed the dragons, Victarion will make them go wild and disobedient.

Tyrion - remains in Mereen and eventually meets up with Dany. He's not easily accepted into her rank, but is instead the Second Sons' representative to Dany, and manages to weasel his way into her acceptance by that route. Likely his ticket in to Dany will be his knowledge of dragons from all his years of study, where he'll say he can get her children back for her, at the price of Casterly Rock for him.

Arianne - will replace Cersei as the King's Landing POV & Jon Con as the Aegon POV. How the Tyrells and the Faith are dealt with will be dealt with in her chapters until the freed dragons cross the Narrow Sea and destroy the city in a rain of fire. Aegon tries to control one of them and fails, with Arianne likely fleeing the destroyed city. In this manner she'll be so burned that she'll die from her injuries. Thus leaving Doran's only heir to be Trystane.

Theon - Theon's likely to survive Stannis and be sent on a mission to help in the battle of Winterfell (showing how he got in the first time). I see Theon dying in the Battle of Winterfell or falling back to a non-POV character after Winterfell is taken again.

Dany - Goes to Vaes Dothrak, gathers all the Dothraki under her and Drogon's leadership, then returns to Mereen and takes the ships to West to chase after her now wild children. She sacks Mereen Dothraki style, utterly destroying it as she fully embraces "Fire & Blood" style of total warfare and leaves behind her arc of wanting to be a good Queen for wanting to be a good Conqueror. She'll meet again with Illyrio, who will likely reveal that he somehow got her mother's crown for her back again and sell the idea of her being Aegon's wife and how Aegon is waiting to marry her in King's Landing, having taken the city. The revelation of her mother's crown will cause Dany to question some of her past, revealing Illyrio and Varys used Dany and Viserys as decoys to keep Robert occupied while they trained the true King in secret. Thus they always had to be on the run and why Varys allowed for Robert to get close to killing them many times, but never fully allowed it to happen either. Dany has her hoard sack Pentos (mirroring how Pentos essentially bought off Khal Drogo before, only to receive it worse when it came back round again), before setting sail for Westeros with Arya.

Bran - continues his training until he discovers something dark and disturbing and is put with a moral quandary. Either the Three Eyed Raven wasn't really Bloodraven--but instead someone else trying to manipulate Bran--perhaps a former pupil of Bloodraven's that's since gone rogue and is trying to bring about the Long Night by messing with Bloodraven's chosen new apprentice. Confused and conflicted, Bran leaves the cave and learns more about the Others' society.

Jon Snow - we will no longer get his POV, he will still be around, but we will lose his POV because of his resurrection & also because he, like Jaime, came to a conclusion which ended his conflict of the heart

Cersei - will go mad when she realizes that her "twin" has chosen to die alone and separate from her, which was his choice. She'll flee to Casterly Rock and make her last stand there.

Jaime - his story is practically over IMO. Brienne will attempt to save him, but Jaime won't let her and he'll die satisfied that in the last moment he made the right choice and was the knight he always wanted to be. He will also have finally completely broken with Cersei to the fullest extent as Cersei expects to die together with Jaime, but Jaime chooses to die alone and a hero to someone who truly matters, thus earning something noble and honorable to put down in the White Book, but ironically never will be (until Brienne later is on the Kingsguard--but that's my ADOS predictions)

Samwell - Will continue in Oldtown, and likely get in trouble when he realizes just what "Pate" is doing, will witness the Ironborn sacking Oldtown, and flee with Gilly to his father's house at Hornhill where he'll reunite with his mother and sisters briefly, likely running into Obara as she chases Darkstar from Starfall. Word reaches Sam of the Wall having fallen and Sam is left with the choice of returning North to be a true Brother of the Night's Watch or to be a coward and hide in the South. Sam chooses for once to be a brother--albeit one who hasn't become a full maester yet, and journies North, perhaps traveling with Obara (or not) for a bit.

Brienne - Will take over Jaime's job as POV in the Riverlands. Will witness the carnage of Red Wedding 2.0 at Riverrun, and eventually run into Sansa and the Mad Mouse as the Mouse tries to get Sansa to Casterly Rock where Cersei has set up shop. Brienne will do battle with the Mouse for Sansa's protection.

Davos - He'll get Rickon and IMO likely return to Castle Black where Rickon will come to less than friendly environment with an anti-Jon Snow faction in charge. Davos just manages to escape with Rickon and head south in search of Stannis, instead running in to Jon Snow and he's our POV with Jon Snow. He'll likely die not long after reaching Stannis' camp due to not being able to bear the cold.

Asha - Will be our POV to Stannis and Jon Snow after Davos' death and as Stannis takes Winterfell. She'll discover herself pregnant and with child, thus unknowingly fulfilling the whole "when the Kraken and Dragon wed" idea that Euron keeps going on and on about.

Barristan - Will die in the Battle for Mereen, most likely by the Shavepate's hands IMO for him being so foolish as to trust him

Aeron - Our POV to the invasion of the Reach up on the Mander (separate half of the fleet from the one attacking Oldtown). Likely dies during the campaign at the end of the novel.

Melisandre - will take Jon Snow's place as the Wall POV and give us further insight into events around Jon Snow while he remains at the Wall. When he leaves, she's tempted to go as well, but she remains at the Wall and ends up burning Shireen and going insane herself. She dies at the Wall, either by the anti-Jon Snow faction, her throwing herself onto the burn pile, or when the Wall comes crashing down on top of her.

Aero - will travel to Starfall IMO, and end up dead in battle against Darkstar, thus revealing whatever it is about the Daynes that GRRM considers a "spoiler" to his story (like the words of House Dayne)

Jon Con - will die of greyscale at some point, with Arianne taking his place, but not before infecting the Stormlands and Crownlands however.

So at the end of TWOW, Westeros is being attacked on three major fronts: Dragons from the East, Krakens from the West, and Others from the North.

I could very easily be wrong--but that's my guesses.

Winterwolf Stark, thanks so much for giving your ideas on all our active POVs.  That's a lot of work and I'm awed.  You sure went in some directions I haven't yet seen so I have to ask, do you think Blood Raven, the real Blood Raven, is alive and a good guy?   Does your idea about Bran ID'ing this imposter tie in with the Euron was a student of BR's?   I've sort of seen Arienne assimilating POVs too as she seems to be in the right place for absorption.  As you are aware this is something of an older thread...it's fascinating to watch predictions for Arya, Dany and Cersei diversify so much.    Arya joining Dany does seem to be how more and more folks are perceiving both their returns.   At least you let Cersei live and that's something!   I don't recall ever seeing anyone make badass Asha pregnant, but the whole concept of Asha being the one to foil Euron and bring him low is my personal favorite and it's so interesting that you don't make her the shadow in Theon's story.  But after Davos' death...

You mention of Jon and Jamie (and Theon) no longer needing POVs because their conflicts of the heart have concluded isn't something I'd ever considered, so thanks for that, it gives me something to chew on as to reasons why POVs would be eliminated while the character lives.   Though I hope you're wrong about Theon and he is able to redeem himself in 1st person.  

I could go on point for point but think your ideas stand alone without my commentary, thanks so much for your time in this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Winterwolf Stark, thanks so much for giving your ideas on all our active POVs.  That's a lot of work and I'm awed.  You sure went in some directions I haven't yet seen so I have to ask, do you think Blood Raven, the real Blood Raven, is alive and a good guy?   Does your idea about Bran ID'ing this imposter tie in with the Euron was a student of BR's?   I've sort of seen Arienne assimilating POVs too as she seems to be in the right place for absorption.  As you are aware this is something of an older thread...it's fascinating to watch predictions for Arya, Dany and Cersei diversify so much.    Arya joining Dany does seem to be how more and more folks are perceiving both their returns.   At least you let Cersei live and that's something!   I don't recall ever seeing anyone make badass Asha pregnant, but the whole concept of Asha being the one to foil Euron and bring him low is my personal favorite and it's so interesting that you don't make her the shadow in Theon's story.  But after Davos' death...

You mention of Jon and Jamie (and Theon) no longer needing POVs because their conflicts of the heart have concluded isn't something I'd ever considered, so thanks for that, it gives me something to chew on as to reasons why POVs would be eliminated while the character lives.   Though I hope you're wrong about Theon and he is able to redeem himself in 1st person.  

I could go on point for point but think your ideas stand alone without my commentary, thanks so much for your time in this. 

*blushes* Thanks. Bloodraven himself is part of the great Weirwood Consciousness--he's as much a representative of all the Greenseers who've gone before him as he is of Bloodraven himself. He's the current avatar the great hive-minded greenseers and Children are using to speak and train Bran. As for a failed apprentice who might be interfering with Bran's training?  . Prettypig has done a lot of research into the similarities of Silver Age Marvel comics and ASOIAF, and pinpointed a potential influence that Bran & Jon both seem to be on the "Dr. Strange" echoes, especially Bran with regards to the psychic training he receives. In that Dr. Strange has to distinguish between his master's teachings, and those of a saboteur. A saboteur who has a lot in common with Euron Greyjoy (so she says). I actually think the direction is a good way to go and to get Bran out of the cave and then encountering and learning more about the Others and the Land of Always Winter that I believe he'll travel to, learning things about the Others that'll be necessary to understand them IMO as he tries to deal with the fact that his head has been messed with far too much and sort out Bloodraven from Euron.

Asha I can see as a pregnant bad ass rather easily, though she'll be stuck as Stannis' prisoner, and have to give birth in her little brother's former greenlander home of Winterfell, and come to terms with where her brother called "home" and why he became the man he did, I think. For some reason Euron's obsession with marrying the "Dragon to the Kraken" and then GRRM's insistence on mentioning Qarl and Asha's union made me think we're supposed to connect the two (especially as Qarl is from thralldom--and we don't exactly know what his lineage is). But for some reason Euron seems to think that wedding the Kraken to the Dragon will help bring about the Long Night, and Asha might just be in for a rude awakening when she gives birth--and inadvertently fulfills and foils Euron's plans simultaneously. Asha and her son become the future of the Iron Islands as far as Stannis is concerned. The Boltons are defeated in battle--which I could also see Asha participating in, which earns Asha some freedoms from Stannis (like freedom to walk around Winterfell), but she's still his prisoner. The majority of the difficult part of her pregnancy occurs in a Winterfell that has fallen. When Stannis fails to hear from Melisandre and his Queen, he rides for Castle Black, leaving Winterfell in charge of Jon Snow, who rules as Rickon's regent and is a bit more lenient with Asha. And because of this relationship and her good relationship with Alysanne Mormont, Asha will make peace with the North in ADOS. Stannis will not return from the Wall as he'll run right into Others on the way, with likely the epilogue being a man in Stannis' brigade just as they run into Others south of the Wall. In ADOS Asha and her son retake the Iron Isles and foil and face Euron in a showdown there in that book. She'll likely be our witness to Jon Snow's revelation about his parentage IMO.

Theon redeems himself IMO by helping to take Winterfell for Stannis & the Starks. He'll have a POV until he dies. He dies in the battle I'm thinking, with Asha spending most of the novel trying to truly understand he brother and the world he grew up in. This leads to wandering around Winterfell as Stannis' highborn prisoner, with her grumpily talking with Jon Snow because he's the closest thing she has to understanding her brother--but Jon's at a loss as his childhood memories are vague and hazy due to resurrection, and he never really got along well with Theon. Anyway, they journey down into the crypts together and Jon faces whatever he needs to face down there. Asha also bears witness to how the North Men and the Wildlings are forced by Jon Snow to have to get along, with Rickon liking and getting along with the Wildlings, but the Northern lords grumbling about Jon and his "influence" over Rickon. The Dredfort likely goes to a Wildling "lord" which is a point of great contention for the Northern lords, who just got rid of a bunch of Boltons--and now they've got to put up with a bunch of Wildlings. Likely sending the Thenns and other Wildlings to capture the Dredfort is how Jon will deal with the tensions between the Wildlings and Northmen.

Sansa, if she hears of Jon Snow and Rickon at Winterfell, likely becomes convinced that Rickon is an imposter.

Oh yeah, lack of conflict of the heart is often why we don't get POVs from certain characters like Stannis, Oberyn, and Doran IMO, but instead see them through the eyes of other characters.

As for Cersei--who do you think is going to be the person Tyrion is fighting Casterly Rock for? She's the one who makes the most sense IMO. In an epic nod to Maurice Druon's The Accursed Kings book series, I see Cersei and Tyrion facing off of one another in ADOS as they fight over Casterly Rock like Mahaut & Robert fight over the County of Artois in The Accursed Kings. With both utterly devastating and destroying the Westerlands as their squabble wrecks everything, and both dying without ever achieving what they wish.

These are just speculations, I could very well be wrong, but they're what I'm going with for now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, WhitewolfStark said:

As for Cersei--who do you think is going to be the person Tyrion is fighting Casterly Rock for? She's the one who makes the most sense IMO. In an epic nod to Maurice Druon's The Accursed Kings book series, I see Cersei and Tyrion facing off of one another in ADOS as they fight over Casterly Rock like Mahaut & Robert fight over the County of Artois in The Accursed Kings. With both utterly devastating and destroying the Westerlands as their squabble wrecks everything, and both dying without ever achieving what they wish.

These are just speculations, I could very well be wrong, but they're what I'm going with for now.

@WhitewolfStark I liked reading your speculations in the previous post, as many of them are scenarios I wish would happen in the series :)

And this face-off between Tyrion and Cersei will be a treat for me if Cersei gains advantage over Tyrion, only to be thwarted in the last minute thanks to some interference from Arya or Jaime (people who could hurt Cersei most - Arya because Cersei hates her intensely, and Jaime because she loves him). Jaime is not feeling brotherly love to Tyrion at the moment, but Cersei's cruelty may change his view.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hos the Hostage said:

@WhitewolfStark I liked reading your speculations in the previous post, as many of them are scenarios I wish would happen in the series :)

And this face-off between Tyrion and Cersei will be a treat for me if Cersei gains advantage over Tyrion, only to be thwarted in the last minute thanks to some interference from Arya or Jaime (people who could hurt Cersei most - Arya because Cersei hates her intensely, and Jaime because she loves him). Jaime is not feeling brotherly love to Tyrion at the moment, but Cersei's cruelty may change his view.

 

Yah, that was some good stuff from Whitewolf.   Thanks for weighing in, Hos.  I sort of want Cersei to go broken and completely alone, miserable and still blaming Tyrion for everything.   I'm going with bittersweet here--he goes to put the nail in her coffin and she's already checked out, depriving both of them of the honor of killing the other.  She takes all the teeth out of his quest for revenge.   They both lose.  I'm oddly attached to Cersei, she's such a train wreck.   I'm curious to find out what her breaking point is exactly.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×