purple-eyes Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 There are no reasons to doubt the accuracy of Barristan's memories. I agree Barri' s memory about rhaegar is accurate. Barri met rhaegar after he came back to TOJ and also worked with him for quite some time. They were together and there is no doubt that rhaegar mentioned his stuff with lyanna to some other people, including Barri. Seriously, they are fighting a war which caused by rhaegar and lyanna. I think rhaegar had to at least answer his dad about his affair with lyanna, KG would be around too. It is very very likely that barri's comments came directly from rhaegar's mouth: I loved this lady so I ran off with her. Things I did for love. (Which impressed young jiame a lot) What else can rhaegar say? I was obsessed with a prophecy I read in a book so I need to have a third child with her? This child is the savior for a future war against ice zombies? Rhaegar must have claimed he did everything for love, so that Barri, kevan, viserys, these who can get information through the court, all thought he chose lyanna for his personal desire then they also concluded that he is not satisfied with elia. I think this makes a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 Would George use his actual fathers name as an inspiration for Rhaegar's if Rhaegar is suppose to be an evil, deranged rapist obsessed with prophecies?! I think you're referring to an idea of mine, but I was just speculating. That said, Rhae- is just the Valyrian spelling of Ray, which was GRRM's father's name. That kind of coincidence makes me suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Would George use his actual fathers name as an inspiration for Rhaegar's if Rhaegar is suppose to be an evil, deranged rapist obsessed with prophecies?! No he would not. Thank you and good night. p.s. Jesus, without the next book this forum is becoming a cesspool of idiotic ideas. People, try to remember that we are not discussing actual history. Nope, we are prying into a man's mind. Some stuff will not make sense, timelines will be diluted and so on. Now, for real: Thank you and good night. Sounds interesting. But GRRM said so? Rhaegar was named from Raymond his father? There are so many " rhae" in the book and we even have a rhaegar frey. Can we say margarey came from his mother's name Margaret？ Will she marry aegon then? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Because I think only Selmy knows Rhaegar loved Lyanna when everyone else just speaks of her as being the brood mare for the spare to the heir. Everyone else thinks they could have changed it all had their girl been Rhaegars wife rather than Elia when its likely Rhaegar would have still chosen Lyanna. Elia was just a scapegoat for Rhaegars weakness. I was gonna respond to this but if you see below, purple-eyes sums it up nicely: I did not quite get your point but may be this is due to my poor English.But nobody thought lyanna as a baby maker in the book because they do not even know she had a child. It looks like everybody agreed that rhaegar was not satisfied with elia so he turned to lyanna. Then people like Kevan or viserys said: if our girls were there, rhaegar would choose our girls instead of lyanna because our girls are much more worthy for rhaegar than lyanna. Nobody blamed rhaegar, only blamed his women. Correct, no one openly considers that Lyanna had a child. Not even Barristan, who is probably the least informed out of 7 KG that served during that time. Even more troubling to this theory is the fact that Jaime, the only other surviving KG from the rebellion, makes no such reference. I do think some of the more clever schemesters like Varys and LF have correctly deduced that Jon is not Ned's son, but Lyanna's. Good ol' Barry is a hopeless romantic... The troubling thing about the Rhaegar-Lyanna love story is that it is not supported by anything incontrovertible in the text. That Rhaegar abudcted Lyanna for love is just one version/interpretation of the events ; but the text remains ambiguous at every single point. But the ap', by saying the woman's name Rhaegar had on his lips when he died was Lyanna's, throws all this ambiguity away. It's troubling (why would the ap' spoil this plot point?) and annoying. So apparently, we can only conclude that Rhaegar did eventually fall in love with Lyanna, but the text doesn't allow us to know when that happened. I personally doubt he fell in love before abducting her. Or perhaps I should say I would be very disapointed if such a central mystery turned out to be based on something like Barry's silly romanticism. But hey, George knows what he's doing anyway. Correct, and no matter how many times we're told that the author is confirming this it's still just an interpretation and could be way off base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Would George use his actual fathers name as an inspiration for Rhaegar's if Rhaegar is suppose to be an evil, deranged rapist obsessed with prophecies?! No he would not. Thank you and good night. p.s. Jesus, without the next book this forum is becoming a cesspool of idiotic ideas. People, try to remember that we are not discussing actual history. Nope, we are prying into a man's mind. Some stuff will not make sense, timelines will be diluted and so on. Now, for real: Thank you and good night. I so badly hope this is not serious. If this is what we're taking as even a possible basis for Rhaegar's actions... Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlan of Pennytree Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Do we know the whereabouts of Barristan Selmy during the time Rhaegar spent @ the ToJ? In AdwD Selmy says something to the effect of Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, so I disagree with some of the above statements. I think we can safely assume that Selmy had intense knowledge, and personal judgements about the history of the KG, e.g., Criston Cole. I think its safe to assume he would've fled to Dragonstone if I had been a part of Viserys's KG. And if I had to guess, he knows Danny has a long lost half-bro out there. we know he and Eddard held each other (AND Rhaegar) in highest regards. If this has been discussed could someone list the forum, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 If Barristan had knowledge of that, it would have come up by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Do we know the whereabouts of Barristan Selmy during the time Rhaegar spent @ the ToJ? In AdwD Selmy says something to the effect of Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and if I had to guess, knows Danny has a long-lost bro out there. we know he and Eddard held each other (AND Rhaegar) in highest regards. If this has been discussed could someone list the forum, thanks. He is in KL, guarding king and helping fighting with rebellions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlan of Pennytree Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Rhaegar the unworthy and purple *eyes, Selmy has been trying to tell Dany about her history but is shut down every time. Is this an assumption: "He is in KL, guarding king and helping fighting with rebellions." I don’t recall mention of it. And the reason I brought up Criston Cole is he is supporting a Queen. His Dornish brothers and love have rubbed off, and his honor has never left. He could have been sworn to secrecy, or hasn't thought of it because it doesn’t seem relevant *EDIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Rhaegar the unworthy and purple *eyes, Selmy has been trying to tell Dany about her history but is shut down every time. Is this an assumption: "He is in KL, guarding king and helping fighting with rebellions." I don’t recall mention of it. And the reason I brought up Criston Cole is he is supporting a Queen. His Dornish brothers and love have rubbed off, and his honor has never left. He could have been sworn to secrecy, or hasn't thought of it because it doesn’t seem relevant *EDIT Telling her that she has another family member out there seems like something she would absolutely wanna know Pretty sure Barristan knows nothing useful in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Rhaegar the unworthy and purple *eyes, Selmy has been trying to tell Dany about her history but is shut down every time. Is this an assumption: "He is in KL, guarding king and helping fighting with rebellions." I don’t recall mention of it. And the reason I brought up Criston Cole is he is supporting a Queen. His Dornish brothers and love have rubbed off, and his honor has never left. He could have been sworn to secrecy, or hasn't thought of it because it doesn’t seem relevant *EDIT He was there for the mess of Brandon and stark people (I think). He was sent out by Aerys to collect residual army after battle of bells. (Hightower was sent out by areys to fetch rhaegar) He was in trident battle too. It is known. It looks safe to say he is around in KL during whole time. Otherwise where is he suppose to be? In TOJ as a fourth secret guard for lyanna? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TristiferDempley Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I know this is a little non sequiter, but has anyone seen this? It's amazing. http://www.buzzfeed.com/riaali/game-of-emojis-1squ6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlan of Pennytree Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 We do not know if he was there or not By your own account he was @ the ToJ at the least once he was at the Battle of the Trident, so was Rhaegar, so. . . More assumptions. . . Where is he supposed to be? What might he know? I dont know, but I'm investigating it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlan of Pennytree Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 please remove mr. mod!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 We do not know if he was there or not By your own account he was @ the ToJ at the least once he was at the Battle of the Trident, so was Rhaegar, so. . . More assumptions. . . Where is he supposed to be? What might he know? I dont know, but I'm investigating it! When did I say he was at TOJ? I did not say that. Hightower was sent to TOJ, not Barri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 We do not know if he was there or not By your own account he was @ the ToJ at the least once he was at the Battle of the Trident, so was Rhaegar, so. . . More assumptions. . . Where is he supposed to be? What might he know? I dont know, but I'm investigating it! When was Barristan ever at the ToJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlan of Pennytree Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I didn't think it was told to us that he was but I read a post wrong, my apologies purple eyes. The whole point was his friends, and not all the KG are friends or even respect one another, have to know much more than we do. The history ive read seems vague concerning Selmy, considering the length of time from Lyannas kidnapping to defeat on the Trident, together with the tales he wants to tell now, but got shut down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I don't really get how the notion of love as ONE of the motivators is "weak," or bad writing. It is consistent with human behavior and the reason for many a fall from grace. There is a reason why we are still reading Romeo and Juliet and why a lot of the crap written today will be forgotten. However it plays out Martin's only responsibility is to tell HIS story and tell it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I don't really get how the notion of love as ONE of the motivators is "weak," or bad writing. It is consistent with human behavior and the reason for many a fall from grace. There is a reason why we are still reading Romeo and Juliet and why a lot of the crap written today will be forgotten. However it plays out Martin's only responsibility is to tell HIS story and tell it well. However it is not consistent with what we've been told regarding Rhaegar's character. Intelligent, dutiful, capable, honorable? For him to elope with Lyanna represents a prolonged period of time in which he acted completely contradictory to all of these descriptions. Maybe that indicates something. Considering how little time they spent together, it is not unreasonable to point out how unrealistic and contrived the whole love angle is. Rhaegar was married, Lyanna was betrothed to another, and we have no evidence that they corresponded with one another beyond Harrenhal. If they did, it's still just an example of a married man selfishly putting his penis ahead of his people. Lyanna wasn't gonna be happy with Robert? So what. It's not his call to make, and he's under no obligation to interfere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlan of Pennytree Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 However it is not consistent with what we've been told regarding Rhaegar's character. Intelligent, dutiful, capable, honorable? For him to elope with Lyanna represents a prolonged period of time in which he acted completely contradictory to all of these descriptions. Maybe that indicates something. Considering how little time they spent together, it is not unreasonable to point out how unrealistic and contrived the whole love angle is. Rhaegar was married, Lyanna was betrothed to another, and we have no evidence that they corresponded with one another beyond Harrenhal. If they did, it's still just an example of a married man selfishly putting his penis ahead of his people. Lyanna wasn't gonna be happy with Robert? So what. It's not his call to make, and he's under no obligation to interfere. Scratch 100% dutiful off the list, or add for the most part in frond of it. Also, there are examples of him being not dutiful, like not taking up arms training when he should, or perhaps not being a dutiful son or kidnapping the Warden of the North's daughter. I don't see falling in love unrealistic or contrived, particularity given his arranged wife. keep in mind no one in these books are exactly as they seem. the characters we know are complicated and fallible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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