Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

redtree

Best and Worst Husband in ASOIAF series

Recommended Posts

Not necessarily. I, for one, believe Ned was right in keeping the secret from Cat. I also think that makes him a worse husband than he could have been. He chose other priorities over being the best husband as as good as they might have been, it doesn't change the fact that his marriage came second.

...

Ned was defending not just Jon, but his family by hiding Jon's identity.

...and then sure, he could have handed Jon to Robert, and watched while Robert took a hammer to the baby. He would have been the perfect husband, I guess. Would anyone consider him a decent human being?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because Cat would have run straight to Robert to report on her husband committing a treason? She would have been just as motivated as Ned to keep the secret. To be the children of a dead traitor is not exactly the best possible fate for her children.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because Cat would have run straight to Robert to report on her husband committing a treason? She would have been just as motivated as Ned to keep the secret. To be the children of a dead traitor is not exactly the best possible fate for her children.

By telling Cat, he would add to the number of people who know the secret. As things stand, he and Reed are the only two who know the secret. It's best to keep it that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By telling Cat, he would add to the number of people who know the secret. As things stand, he and Reed are the only two who know the secret. It's best to keep it that way.

I agree. I just think that makes him a worse husband than he could have been. I am not talking about his value as a human being or whatever. I am simply talking about his relationship with Cat who is still haunted by her perception that Ned loved Jon's mother more than he did her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I usually rail on Rhaegar, but I'll defend him a bit: ita that Elia would die if she had another child. Given that, isn't it more considerate of Rhaegar to get his third head from another woman, instead of risking his wife's life?

I oddly don't find his affair a problem, in that imo that's better than killing your wife in childbirth to fulfill a prophecy. Had Rhaegar done this the way most other lords seem to, on the side, without scandal, I wouldn't be bitching. Problem is he went out of his way to humiliate his wife (Harrenhal) then eloped.

I would had agreed with you if Rhaegar hadn't basically abandoned Elia. Yes she was at DS but this wasn't Rhaegar's house and the people there were not loyal to Rhaegar. That was Aerys' house with Aerys' people. He basically abandoned Elia at Aerys' hands. Now he could had secretly sent Elia to Dorne instead of just leaving her there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tywin? Kevan? Mace? Doran? Jon Arryn? Edmure? I could go on...

There are plenty of faithful husbands in the series.

Tywin quite possibly cheated given that secret tunnel to the brothel. It was almost certainly built during his reign as Hand, though it's questionable if this was before or after Tyrion's birth and Joanna's death.

Edmure frankly never had a chance to be unfaithful to his wife given he was immediately taken prisoner.

Kevan definitely seemed devoted. Given how close and loving the Tyrells are, I'd have to bet Mace was at the very least a part of that, if not the one who instilled those values. Doran also seemed the exception to the nobility rule and married for love. Jon Arryn... for such a "well known" figure we barely know anything about the guy really, but no reason to suspect he strayed from the reservation despite being married to Lysa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would had agreed with you if Rhaegar hadn't basically abandoned Elia. Yes she was at DS but this wasn't Rhaegar's house and the people there were not loyal to Rhaegar. That was Aerys' house with Aerys' people. He basically abandoned Elia at Aerys' hands. Now he could had secretly sent Elia to Dorne instead of just leaving her there.

oh ita! that's what I meant: Having an affair to save your wife from dying in childbirth is a brilliant idea. Humiliating her, then abandoning her where your insane daddy can get at her and your kids is insane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tywin quite possibly cheated given that secret tunnel to the brothel. It was almost certainly built during his reign as Hand, though it's questionable if this was before or after Tyrion's birth and Joanna's death.

Not at all. It may have just as it may have been built an any time in the last two centuries. It is a tunnel to the prostitution centre of Kings Landing, that area was full of brothers during the Dance just as it is today.

 

Not that this disproves he never cheated on his wife, he probably did do as did most other men who were away from home. He mentions a diplomatic trip to Lys, unless his wife joined him he may have dabbled in the most famous place of courtesans in the known world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oh ita! that's what I meant: Having an affair to save your wife from dying in childbirth is a brilliant idea. Humiliating her, then abandoning her where your insane daddy can get at her and your kids is insane.

We agree then. He of course could had a child with Lyanna but he had to fix some things first. Yet he failed to do them which is why he was one of the worst husbands in GRRTH.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Ned and Cat.

Lying to Cat, Ned also protected his family: (i) by keeping the secret as safe as possible, (ii) by not turning Cat into an accomplice (a serious accusation if we regard what he did as treason) and (iii) by carrying the burden and the responsibility of the secret alone, instead of saddling Catelyn with it, too. I don't think that telling Cat the truth in this particular case would have made Ned a better husband. It could have made it psychologically easier for Ned, but it wouldn't have made it easier for Catelyn, and no one would have been any safer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not necessarily. I, for one, believe Ned was right in keeping the secret from Cat. I also think that makes him a worse husband than he could have been. He chose other priorities over being the best husband as as good as they might have been, it doesn't change the fact that his marriage came second.

A friend of mine describes her husband as "a great son, a very good brother, a good father, and a mediocre husband". I'd say that Ned placed Jon, Lyanna, and basically being on the safe side where something very important was concerned over his wife. So no, not the best husband.

I can't even consider him a mediocre husband. He did ONE thing people don't agree with. That makes him imperfect, not a mediocre or bad husband. And mind you his one thing is not adultery or domestic violence. It's protecting his sister's legacy and the innocent child. He is still overall a good husband.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't even consider him a mediocre husband. He did ONE thing people don't agree with. That makes him imperfect, not a mediocre or bad husband. And mind you his one thing is not adultery or domestic violence. It's protecting his sister's legacy and the innocent child. He is still overall a good husband.

I am not saying he's mediocre. I am simply saying that I cannot consider him the best. And doing ONE thing is different from doing ONE thing and then the same ONE thing, and then the same ONE thing for 15 years. Let alone the fact that sometimes, ONE thing is enough to deem someone a bad husband, a bad father, a bad human being. Gregor Clegane was an evil human being even when the ONE thing he did was burn his little brother over a toy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Best: Tywin, Ned.

Worst: Craster, Ramsay.

Right. But the thread wasn't about who was the perfect husband. I can't think of such a thing in Westeros.

But then, I'm one of those who think there are worse things than cheating.

It does ask about the best husband thought and that kinda disqualifies Davos. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just remembered Hizdahr seemed like an alright husband. He helps his wife gain the peace and stability she desires in the most realistic and practical way possible when she was running her city into the shitter. (And no he didn't try to poison her, that would be idiotic)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not saying he's mediocre. I am simply saying that I cannot consider him the best. And doing ONE thing is different from doing ONE thing and then the same ONE thing, and then the same ONE thing for 15 years. Let alone the fact that sometimes, ONE thing is enough to deem someone a bad husband, a bad father, a bad human being. Gregor Clegane was an evil human being even when the ONE thing he did was burn his little brother over a toy.

Comparing Gregor's ONE thing to Ned's ONE thing is kind of ridiculous (even if this was the one thing Gregor did, which is wasn't). Ned kept a secret. And it wasn't even a secret like "guess what I have 16 bastards out in the world somewhere." I would consider it even an "honorable" secret that did not affect how he treated Catelyn. All things considered, even if you think this secret was a terrible thing to do, you would still have to consider him one of the best husbands in Westeros. It just amazes me that this one thing seems to take Ned out of consideration for the best husbands of Westeros for a lot of people on this post. If that the case we shouldn't include Tywin either because he spent most of his time away from his wife. How can you be a considered a good husband if you spent most of you time away from your wife (assuming we're holding Tywin to the same stringent standards people seems to be holding Ned to).

And I don't know if you named Tywin as one of the best. Just used it as an example because his name came up a lot in this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comparing Gregor's ONE thing to Ned's ONE thing is kind of ridiculous (even if this was the one thing Gregor did, which is wasn't). Ned kept a secret. And it wasn't even a secret like "guess what I have 16 bastards out in the world somewhere." I would consider it even an "honorable" secret that did not affect how he treated Catelyn. All things considered, even if you think this secret was a terrible thing to do, you would still have to consider him one of the best husbands in Westeros.

It most definitely affected how he treated Catelyn. She was literally the only highborn woman in the series that we know of who had to suffer her husband's "bastard" in the midst of her own family. I don't have to consider him one of the best husbands in Westeros. I don't.

Funny thing is, Cat wouldn't have minded a horde of bastards, as long as they weren't shoved into her face. Which Jon was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It most definitely affected how he treated Catelyn. She was literally the only highborn woman in the series that we know of who had to suffer her husband's "bastard" in the midst of her own family. I dont have to consider him one of the best husbands in Westeros. I don't.

Lol. You're right you don't have to. It's just my opinion that people are being harsh on Ned. And considering the circumstances of this world, Catelyn has it by far better than any other high born wife that we know a lot about. Ned treats her as an equal and isn't out sleeping with every woman he sees, nor have we ever seen him lay his hands on her. Even if the circumstances were as Catelyn believed them to be as in Jon was actually Ned's bastard, there's a certain respect I would have for a man who actually took care of his responsibility instead of just leaving some woman pregnant with his child and letting them fend for themselves. Not saying I would be with this man in real life, but in Ice & Fire world she didn't really have a choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×