Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

redtree

Is Robb Stark A Coward ?

Recommended Posts

It seems to me he just left to retake North and left Riverlands to the ground just like that. He named Brynden Tully as Warden of Southern Marches but title means nothing if there's no power behind it. If i were one of the riverlords i would be furious because he was going to go for the North which has greater natural barrier, significantly less enemy and less damage and left Riverlords which has little of natural defense and half slaughtered men to endure more slaughter and burning. Lannister+Tyrell+Crownlands faction was coming for them yet he ran back safely to the North, Riverlands is part of his kingdom fgs. Shouldn't he prioritize the defense of riverlands who is at the front row seat of battle ? Do you think he's a coward ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, he's not a coward. He had to go North. He lost his seat and the kingdom of his main supporters. You can't expect all of the northern lords and their forces to keep fighting to protect the kingdom of some other lords when their castles have been taken and their families might all be killed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems to me he just left to retake North and left Riverlands to the ground just like that. He named Brynden Tully as Warden of Southern Marches but title means nothing if there's no power behind it. If i were one of the riverlords i would be furious because he was going to go for the North which has greater natural barrier, significantly less enemy and less damage and left Riverlords which has little of natural defense and half slaughtered men to endure more slaughter and burning. Lannister+Tyrell+Crownlands faction was coming for them yet he ran back safely to the North, Riverlands is part of his kingdom fgs. Shouldn't he prioritize the defense of riverlands who is at the front row seat of battle ? Do you think he's a coward ?

No, that does not make sense. Not even for the Riverlords... Stay there to do, exactly what? Wait to become sandwich between Ironborn and Lannister?

He *had* to take back the North and secure his powerbase, even for the Riverlands. He could do nothing to help them without securing the northern frontier first.

Btw cowardice is not the word to describe what you propose. Letting them behind exposed is closer to betrayal than to cowardice, if we are to stretch meanings that much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, that does not make sense. Not even for the Riverlords... Stay there to do, exactly what? Wait to become sandwich between Ironborn and Lannister?

He *had* to take back the North and secure his powerbase, even for the Riverlands. He could do nothing to help them without securing the northern frontier first.

Btw cowardice is not the word to describe what you propose. Letting them behind exposed is closer to betrayal than to cowardice, if we are to stretch meanings that much.

To do exactly what ? To defend the riverlands off course, the part of his kingdom. If RW didn't happen it'd be nothing left at Riverlands, Lannister+Tyrell would just slaughter people, burning the fields, looting the golds and raping from town to town forcing their lord to submit and Robb would've lost Riverlands. 
Northern region is much more defensible and up until RW riverrun was his powerbase not winterfell, that's why the Greyjoy could took it without much sweat. Winterfell is far from the bigger enemy, why didn't he prioritize Riverlands who was at the front row at battle first ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To do exactly what ? To defend the riverlands off course, the part of his kingdom. If RW didn't happen it'd be nothing left at Riverlands, Lannister+Tyrell would just slaughter people, burning the fields and raping from town to town forcing their lord to submit and Robb would've lost Riverlands. 
Northern region is much more defensible and up until RW riverrun was his powerbase not winterfell, that's why the Greyjoy could took it without much sweat. Winterfell is far from the bigger enemy, why didn't he prioritize Riverlands who was at the front row at battle first ?

He needed to retake the North so he could protect the Riverlands . Only as a united kingdom did they have any chance against the Tyrell/Lannister alliance. Once he drove the Iron Born out of the North he would the full force of the North to help protect the Riverlands. He was leaving  his wife and mother  in the Riverlands so clearly he was not abandoning the Riverlands . Frankly it was the only option that he had. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He wasn't a coward, he was just in an impossible situation.  There was no chance he could hold everything at that point.  His best option was to regain the North and dig in.  Completely holding the riverlands throughout the war was never an option for anyone.  Blackfish could hold Riverrun (which he did) and if things had gone a little better with the Freys, he may have been able to hold the Trident.  That could buy enough time to win back the North, and march south again- assuming no major disasters occurred and winter worked in their favor.

Obviously, a major disaster occurred.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Defend, how? What army? Why would the northmen follow him and stay fight in the RL when the IB were taking their castles, killing their people, taking their supplies?

The IB being far from the bigger enemy is absurd. What else should they have done, to earn the title? Unless you propose that they are not the bigger ennemy of the Riverlords so they would not care, which directly creates a dichotomy with the Northmen, which in turn leads to the Northmen (and thus Robb) having definitely clear priorities.

Also, even Catelyn believes that he must take the North back, or else he's nothing. And she's right, he'd be nothing... if he's nothing, however, he can't help anyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He was stuck between a rock and a hard place. He was Lord Paramount. If he does not regain the North then he is Lord of what? He was doomed right from the start.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He needed to retake the North so he could protect the Riverlands . Only as a united kingdom did they have any chance against the Tyrell/Lannister alliance. Once he drove the Iron Born out of the North he would the full force of the North to help protect the Riverlands. He was leaving  his wife and mother  in the Riverlands so clearly he was not abandoning the Riverlands . Frankly it was the only option that he had. 

That makes sense, but a war in the North would take time. By the time he had the full force, the majority of Riverland would have already submitted to the Iron Throne. Seagard/Frey and any other area in northern Riverland would be fine but area in Southern Riverland such as Pinkmaiden or Darry would be flat to the ground. Brynden could hold Riverrun but how long ? Tactics can only go so far, Tyrell Army has unlimited supplies, great commander and a high number, they could build siege weapon to attack Riverrun. I think Robb had lost the Riverlands when Tyrell joined the IT

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Defend, how? What army? Why would the northmen follow him and stay fight in the RL when the IB were taking their castles, killing their people, taking their supplies?

Same thinking can go with the riverlords, why would the rivermen follow him and stay fight in the RL when the Tyrell+Lannister are going to take their castles, killing their people (again), taking their supplies ?

The IB being far from the bigger enemy is absurd. What else should they have done, to earn the title? Unless you propose that they are not the bigger ennemy of the Riverlords so they would not care, which directly creates a dichotomy with the Northmen, which in turn leads to the Northmen (and thus Robb) having definitely clear priorities.

Read again. I said that Winterfell is far from the bigger enemy, which is Lannister+Tyrell alliance, they are more dangerous than the Ironborn. Also, before RW Roose Bolton had told Rob that Ramsay had taken Winterfell back, Robb had no idea that he's lying

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't particular like Robb Stark but I think that few people can call him coward with any degree of truth. It would be a very uncommon vein of cowardice if Robb possessed it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That makes sense, but a war in the North would take time. By the time he had the full force, the majority of Riverland would have already submitted to the Iron Throne. Seagard/Frey and any other area in northern Riverland would be fine but area in Southern Riverland such as Pinkmaiden or Darry would be flat to the ground. Brynden could hold Riverrun but how long ? Tactics can only go so far, Tyrell Army has unlimited supplies, great commander and a high number, they could build siege weapon to attack Riverrun. I think Robb had lost the Riverlands when Tyrell joined the IT

 

 

What other choice did he have?

plus the fact that things change quickly in wartime , things could look bleak at one moment and then because of a few breaks things could completely change . Balon died not long after Robb was heading north and the much of the Iron Born left for the Kingsmoot , the Iron Born then attacked the Reach and the Golden Company attacked the Stormlands plus Tywin and Kevan died. Things would have improved for Robb pretty nicely if not for the Red Wedding.  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me think: he moves his army to repel the invaders within his borders. I see two options here: either that's a clear act of cowardice, or this is a troll thread.

I think I know, which one is it.

Hey, troll threads do rack up post counts, though.
And there are some of them that are fun!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same thinking can go with the riverlords, why would the rivermen follow him and stay fight in the RL when the Tyrell+Lannister are going to take their castles, killing their people (again), taking their supplies ?

Read again. I said that Winterfell is far from the bigger enemy, which is Lannister+Tyrell alliance, they are more dangerous than the Ironborn. Also, before RW Roose Bolton had told Rob that Ramsay had taken Winterfell back, Robb had no idea that he's lying

The Riverlords had proven at the Battle of the Fords that they were not a spent force , they were battle hardened and had experienced commanders in Blackfish, Mallister , Braken and Blackwood . Even Edmure had shown that he was becoming a force to be reckoned with at the Fords. Plus the fact that the Lannisters had taken some massive losses in the war and they were not exactly at full strength. The Riverlords would know that they have only to hold out long enough for Robb to return from the north and with Balon dying his job would have become much easier. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems to me he just left to retake North and left Riverlands to the ground just like that. He named Brynden Tully as Warden of Southern Marches but title means nothing if there's no power behind it. If i were one of the riverlords i would be furious because he was going to go for the North which has greater natural barrier, significantly less enemy and less damage and left Riverlords which has little of natural defense and half slaughtered men to endure more slaughter and burning. Lannister+Tyrell+Crownlands faction was coming for them yet he ran back safely to the North, Riverlands is part of his kingdom fgs. Shouldn't he prioritize the defense of riverlands who is at the front row seat of battle ? Do you think he's a coward ? 

Going to the north doesn't make Robb a coward because he didn't run away from the war to hide at winterfell, he went there to fight with Theon before he loses all Winterfell and the north to the Greyjoys, which makes him an idiot rather than a coward. He thought that the only threat he had to deal with was the Lannisters and then when he found another threat he totally forgot the old threat and went for the new one.

However, he was also a boy and mostly followed his feelings rather than his brain, which caused all his faults until his downfall. He moved against the Lannisters because of his hate and anger, he went back to Winterfell because of his fear, he broke his oath to Frey because of his penis, and so on .....

Idiocy is something that all the Starks inherent which made me stop trying to understand their actions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Going to the north doesn't make Robb a coward because he didn't run away from the war to hide at winterfell, he went there to fight with Theon before he loses all Winterfell and the north to the Greyjoys, which makes him an idiot rather than a coward. He thought that the only threat he had to deal with was the Lannisters and then when he found another threat he totally forgot the old threat and went for the new one.

However, he was also a boy and mostly followed his feelings rather than his brain, which caused all his faults until his downfall. He moved against the Lannisters because of his hate and anger, he went back to Winterfell because of his fear, he broke his oath to Frey because of his penis, and so on .....

Idiocy is something that all the Starks inherent which made me stop trying to understand their actions.

How is he an idiot for going up north? He needs the resources and manpower from the north if he has any chance to hold onto his kingdom. 

It's the same reason that Tywin was heading to the Westerlands when Stannis was laying siege to Storms End . They both know that for them to continue to fight a prolonged war they need to have access to all the resources that they have available . The Riverlands are not helpless and he is depending on them to hold onto their castles long enough for him to retake the north. Frankly once he gets through Moat Calin how hard would it be for him to retake the north from the Iron Born? Would the Iron Born even try to hold the castles they have taken or would they run back to the Iron Islands when Robb comes to attack them with 5 to 10 thousand men?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×