His Dark Materials Series

[Isis]

5 hours ago, Stannis Eats No Peaches said:

From what I remember (I read it 11 years ago), Once Upon a Time in the North was really good, and I’ve not thought about it before but the Lee presented here is more reminiscent of that younger Lee, who I think was more of a shit-stirrer.

I'm going to buy it today and catch up. But yes, they chose to put some of that into the Lee we see in the show.

2 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

My thought was that if you're following from Sam Elliot in that role; you HAVE to do something different with the character, because you simply can't do the same thing better, and trying will get you roundly panned.

Of course, I'm still not sold.

Exactly. You have to find a different way of doing it. It can't be an homage to Sam Elliot! Really not sure what some of you were expecting it to be - another traditional old cowboy from a traditional western film?

It's fine if y'all don't like it anyway. It's your loss.

But we all know he has it in him to bring the wily, the proud, the world-weary, the sad, the everything... into the role. And he's doing fine so far with what he's been given, if you ask me.

[HexMachina]

7 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

My thought was that if you're following from Sam Elliot in that role; you HAVE to do something different with the character, because you simply can't do the same thing better, and trying will get you roundly panned.

Of course, I'm still not sold.

Yep, the Will Smith as Genie approach. Nobody could better Robin Williams so you have to go different instead. 

 

I love how it's worked out though (and I'm not some massive LMM fan either so it's not coming from that kind of perspective of automatically loving everything he does) 

 

[williamjm]

5 hours ago, Isis said:

I'm going to buy it today and catch up. But yes, they chose to put some of that into the Lee we see in the show.

I'll probably get that and Lyra's Oxford (which I've heard provides some background for some bits in The Secret Commonwealth) at some point since I skipped over them before.

12 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Yep, the Will Smith as Genie approach. Nobody could better Robin Williams so you have to go different instead.

I've never really prioritised faithfulness in adaptation so I'm happy enough so far with the change even if Sam Elliot was better.

[Zorral]

11 hours ago, Isis said:

I thought that Lyra and Lee had great chemistry and that's part of why she's come to life a bit more now. 

That is perceptive!  After reading this I realized that in many ways Lyra and Lee have more than one character trait in common, including quite reasonable and calm daemons, whose animal natures in folklore and mythology are also clever, for example, Br'er Rabbit.

[Zorral]

9 minutes ago, Triskele said:

The land of actually no accents.

There is no place without accents.  Ask the people who study these matters, including speech coaches.

The English are awful about doing US southern accents, btw.  It comes out as some sort of stupid phony idea of a Texas inflection, tonality and so on.

[Zorral]

I am talking in general: BBC, etc. As in particular the idea of how LBJ talks in The Crown. That's just -- wrong.

[BigFatCoward]

 

3 hours ago, Triskele said:

 

ETA:  I appreciate everyone's argument on the "you have to do it different" take.  I don't necessarily disagree but do also feel like if it's an adaptation there's something to be said for embodying the foundational character. Was Elliot's depiction some departure?  

I think the Nicholson/Ledger/Phoenix interpretations of the same role have shown that you don't have to be the same, but they can all be good. 

Elliot was the living embodiment of the book role, LMM is not for me, which isn't a problem, if it was good, but it just isn't. 

[Knight of Ashes]

On 11/27/2019 at 4:35 AM, Isis said:

I'm going to buy it today and catch up. But yes, they chose to put some of that into the Lee we see in the show.

Exactly. You have to find a different way of doing it. It can't be an homage to Sam Elliot! Really not sure what some of you were expecting it to be - another traditional old cowboy from a traditional western film?

 

Well, my first thought was "Huh. He looks like a seventies porn star." 

But I shall try to keep an open mind and adjust. I've a feeling that will be easier for me than putting up with Jeremy Irons' portrayal of Ozymandias.

[HexMachina]

On 11/27/2019 at 5:59 AM, Triskele said:

Couldn't agree more.  Maybe the best surprise of the show so far for me.  Brings a certain gravitas to every scene but in a way that if I hadn't ready anything Id be slightly suspicious about whether it was a misdirection and he'd turn out to be a hero or something.  Very sinister in a certain way while being totally human.

I see several folks saying that there was a little more life from DK as Lyra here, but I'm sorry to say that I just saw more of the same. 

Thought Iorek worked quite well.

Man, now we come to LMM.  I love this guy as a human being, and his Curb Your Enthusiasm episode made me love him more.  I sort of cringed at this episode with him.  The look is great, and very much my Lee Scoresby image.  And there's a twinkle there that LMM does as well as expected which feels key to the character to me.  But the accent (WTF is that accent) and the delivery of several lines not only didn't work but were borderline antithetical for me.  Like my post after the last episode I really want it to be otherwise...hoping this turns around.  

Can someone remind me:  did we get this little of Azriel and the exploration of Dust in this segment of the story in the books?  That opening scene was so good and it feels like we mostly haven't gone back there, but it also doesn't feel like there are any wasted scenes in our story so far...I can recall almost everything from the book that I'm being shown.  

 

Asriel features little in book one. We hear very little about the nature or known facts of dust in the Northern Lights. The stuff with Dust only really becomes very prominent in The Amber Spyglass, although the Subtle Knife begins a more in depth explanation, especially the difference between adults and children and why Spectres only target the former

[kairparavel]

Good to see Dudley Dursley getting work so far from 4 Privet Drive. 

Did the books have any slight intimations re: deviant priests like Lord Boreal suggested this episode? I really should restart and finish the original trilogy. 

Also, and roll your eyes all you wish *L* I'm very much looking forward to Hot Priest as Colonel John Parry.

[HexMachina]

4 hours ago, kairparavel said:

Good to see Dudley Dursley getting work so far from 4 Privet Drive. 

Did the books have any slight intimations re: deviant priests like Lord Boreal suggested this episode? I really should restart and finish the original trilogy. 

Also, and roll your eyes all you wish *L* I'm very much looking forward to Hot Priest as Colonel John Parry.

Not really, but we see far less of the Magesterium in the books, which are primarily from Lyra and Will’s POV. If it is mentioned or alluded to at all i imagine its probably in the Amber Spyglass, which i will be rereading soon

[HexMachina]

Really loved this episode, probably my favourite too date, which is saying something considering it lacked Ruth Wilson's presence!

 

Will! That was a (pleasant) surprise. I think it's a necessary change too having thought about it a little, since we get a lot of back story and context from his thoughts in the book, which obviously needs to be changed for the visual medium. Also a big fan of how they have done Lord Boreal so more screen time for him is a welcome addition. 

Putting Will in a boxing class seems weird though, unless this is maybe going to be instead of his piano classes and the boxing coach will be the piano teach equivalent? "My door is always open" points that way I guess.

Or was this a PE lesson and so it was mandatory? It just seems uncharacteristic for Will to do anything extra-curricular, as he is so focused on caring for his mother and keeping her difficulties hidden. 

Will and his mother were so lovely together. Also his t-shirt was from Next  it's  the little details you know... 

 

 

Dafne Keen continues to grow on me, especially in her interactions with Lee and Iorek. She is getting to show a much greater range now. Her and Lee are utterly charming together though, as they should be. And Lee and Iorek, I feel like I need to see more of them together. 

I also thought Ma Costa was decent this episode too after finding the performance from Ann Marie Duff poor in previous episodes. 

Maybe this was just me but there seemed to be much more Daemon presence this episode. Like when we got to see the Gyptian convoy, all their daemons were seen in passing. 

Serafina!  I mean, I loved Eva Green in the role but I can take Ruta Gedmintas in the role. Interesting choice to have the character so battle scarred as they did though. I did like the scene between her amd Fader Coram, rather touching.

Lyra riding Iorek looked a bit odd, don't know if that was just me. Just seemed very apparent that this was CGI in contrast to some other scenes. Shame, because Iorek looks magnificent otherwise. 

As said above, Iorek and Lyra's dynamic was fantastic. Probably better done than in the book, where their affection for one another is mentioned a lot but there isn't so much justification for why this is the case, the two sharing not too many scenes or too much time together. 

Omg how adorable was Pan as the, um.... Arctic Fox? Whatever, so adorable. And him and Lyra approaching the shed was really well done too. Changing from Tony Makarios to Billy Costa was an expected change. 

Ann Marie Duff really did sell me this episode actually as I found myself tearing up when she was reunited with Billy. Painful scene. 

 

Next week looks fantastic 

 

[williamjm]

2 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Really loved this episode, probably my favourite too date, which is saying something considering it lacked Ruth Wilson's presence!

I think where this adaptation works so much better than the movie is that in an episode like this it manages to bring a lot of emotion into the story where the movie felt like a lightweight adventure by comparison. The scenes with Billy Costa did a good job of showing the stakes they are fighting for.

We were speculating about whether we would see Will in this season and we definitely saw plenty of him here. It seemed like a good introduction to him.

2 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Serafina!  I mean, I loved Eva Green in the role but I can take Ruta Gedmintas in the role. Interesting choice to have the character so battle scarred as they did though. I did like the scene between her amd Fader Coram, rather touching.

I thought James Cosmo did some great work in this episode.

Omg how adorable was Pan as the, um.... Arctic Fox? Whatever, so adorable.

 And him and Lyra approaching the shed was really well done too.

Again they are doing a good job of using the daemons to show their human's emotions with Pan expressing the nervousness Lyra is trying to hide. Similarly with mournful Pan at the funeral.

[dog-days]

Really enjoyed the latest episode though not much to say about it. Book spoiler:

Spoiler

Lee Scoresby's fate is going to be pretty painful to watch when/if the TV show gets to it - must prepare the tissues. Wasn't sure about the actor/writing for the character at first, but I've warmed to both

Loved the introduction of Will's backstory. I hadn't been looking forward to it at all, but in fact I found it absolutely gripping. Nina Sosanya and Amir Wilson were perfect.  Kind of a pity that they cut the piano for boxing - it's got me thinking about men and male behavior in HDM. Do we meet any with artistic/creative gifts? Come to that, do we meet any artistic women either? I expect I'm missing someone really obvious. 

The only regret really is Anne-Marie Duff. She's such a fine actress in other things;* she/the writing just feel so off in this somehow. 

Actually that's not true. My other regret is the singing bit, which I skipped. Not faulting Lucian Msamati's fine voice, but the musical episode knocked me out of the moment quite heavily. I ended up skipping forward a minute to avoid the sledgehammer lugubriousness.  I blame music vids. They're infecting TV. 

 

*Well, I think she probably is - I've only seen her in The Way We Live Now back in 2001, and Suffragette (liked the film, but she had a fairly minor part in it). 

 

[redriver]

9 minutes ago, dog-days said:

Really enjoyed the latest episode though not much to say about it. Book spoiler:

  Reveal hidden contents

Lee Scoresby's fate is going to be pretty painful to watch when/if the TV show gets to it - must prepare the tissues. Wasn't sure about the actor/writing for the character at first, but I've warmed to both

Loved the introduction of Will's backstory. I hadn't been looking forward to it at all, but in fact I found it absolutely gripping. Nina Sosanya and Amir Wilson were perfect.  Kind of a pity that they cut the piano for boxing - it's got me thinking about men and male behavior in HDM. Do we meet any with artistic/creative gifts? Come to that, do we meet any artistic women either? I expect I'm missing someone really obvious. 

The only regret really is Anne-Marie Duff. She's such a fine actress in other things;* she/the writing just feel so off in this somehow. 

Actually that's not true. My other regret is the singing bit, which I skipped. Not faulting Lucian Msamati's fine voice, but the musical episode knocked me out of the moment quite heavily. I ended up skipping forward a minute to avoid the sledgehammer lugubriousness.  I blame music vids. They're infecting TV. 

 

*Well, I think she probably is - I've only seen her in The Way We Live Now back in 2001, and Suffragette (liked the film, but she had a fairly minor part in it). 

 

Think I've only seen her in Shameless with ex hubby James McEvoy.

[BigFatCoward]

Was late to watch this weeks episode but I thought it was a huge step forward. Will and his mother were perfect, Lyra and Lee were excellent. Billy being separated was more impactful than the same character in the books (though he should have been hugging a fish for comfort as a proxy daemon?). 

All in all it was marvelous. 

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

I really liked the episode, but agree that it would have been more impactful if Billy had been clutching a fish.

 

Again, it’s just something we have to put up with for budgeting reasons, but when Ma Costa was shouting “where’s his daemon!?”, my first thought was “well where’s yours?”

[Isis]

Two things

Having just read The Secret Commonwealth

I expected people to freak out A LOT more about the missing daemon - so that part felt a little subdued, or certainly less impactful than I thought it would be.

and:

During the funeral pyre scene I thought the bereft-looking daemons were amazing. I glanced across at my husband to find that he was more intent on his bowl of dessert rather than the screen. The daemons were off the screen by the time he looked up again. I lunged across him to grab the remote to pause the TV and croaked 'YOU'RE MISSING THE BEST BIT!' The scene itself didn't make me cry, but I was just thinking that the daemons were the best bit about the show and to find he wasn't even watching it really annoyed me. So then I rewound the scene and made him watch it again, going 'LOOK AT THEM'.

 

[williamjm]

7 hours ago, Stannis Eats No Peaches said:

I really liked the episode, but agree that it would have been more impactful if Billy had been clutching a fish.

I did miss that bit, in the book it did emphasise how traumatised he was by his daemon being missing.

[dog-days]

46 minutes ago, williamjm said:

I did miss that bit, in the book it did emphasise how traumatised he was by his daemon being missing.

Yeah, Tony clutching "Ratter" was such a horrible thing it's stayed with me for decades. To me it's the most brutal episode in HDM. That's saying something given what's passed (Belle Sausage) and what's to come.