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His Dark Materials Series

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Yeah her talent at lying is a central part of her character and is very important to the plot, but there been little emphasis on it. Granted there’s still time, but it does need to be shown.

 

I like the portrayal of John Faa and Farder Coram, and am very much looking forward to meeting Lee and especially Iorek.

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So so so ready to get to the north, meet Lee Scoresby and Hester. 

I'm still not totally feeling Lyra. If she doesn't show a bit more character soon then she might not be convincing enough when she does take action. 

Not sure how I feel about the golden monkey having an existential moment about death - when the dæmon disappears as the Gyptian dude kills himself. It made me feel weird and uncomfortable and I guess that's the point. 

Someone I know online was complaining they didn't understand what was going on (they've not read the books). I said 'some kids have been kidnapped and people want to get them back'? Then they said 'and the talking animals!'... I replied that I think the dæmons have been explained a few times. I especially think that Mrs Counter and the golden monkey are used to great effect to show the relationship between a person and their dæmon: sometimes they act in unison (when they fight the gyptian), other times they display different facets of the same emotions, and other times one hides all emotion and but the other shows it. I think that it's really well done.

Ultimately the guy who didn't get what was happening confessed he was paying more attention to his phone than the TV. 

Edited by Isis

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Interesting choice to introduce Will so early (even just as a photograph). I like the idea of them integrating the story more across the books. In the books it felt a bit disconnected, like "Here's Book 1 and Book 1 stuff and now here's Book 2 and a load of new stuff, a lot of it not hugely set up beforehand." It feels a bit like The Expanse, taking the luxury of knowing what's coming to spread things out a bit more evenly.

I think it's a really strong series so far.

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7 hours ago, Isis said:

So so so ready to get to the north, meet Lee Scoresby and Hester. 

I'm still not totally feeling Lyra. If she doesn't show a bit more character soon then she might not be convincing enough when she does take action. 

Overall I'm fairly happy with Dafne Keen as Lyra, but she has been a bit more passive at times than the character in the books tended to be.
 

Quote

 

Someone I know online was complaining they didn't understand what was going on (they've not read the books). I said 'some kids have been kidnapped and people want to get them back'? Then they said 'and the talking animals!'... I replied that I think the dæmons have been explained a few times. I especially think that Mrs Counter and the golden monkey are used to great effect to show the relationship between a person and their dæmon: sometimes they act in unison (when they fight the gyptian), other times they display different facets of the same emotions, and other times one hides all emotion and but the other shows it. I think that it's really well done.

Ultimately the guy who didn't get what was happening confessed he was paying more attention to his phone than the TV. 

 

 

 

Even if it's not really all that complex a story at this stage it's probably inevitable there are going to be reactions like this for a show with elements that are out of the ordinary. Many people aren't used to paying attention to TV shows.

Edited by williamjm

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I do agree with people who think the show isn't getting Lyra right. The joie de vivre is missing, and the innocent pleasure of going off on massive flights of fancy. In some ways (mild spoiler for Secret Commonwealth)

Spoiler

she seems more like the book version of Lyra will be in ten years time. Somehow lost and beaten down and hostile.  

I wonder if the change in emphasis happened because Daphne Keene is a bit older than Lyra in the books -  it's only a couple of years' difference, but that's still a big jump at that age. 

I have a lot of niggles - one of my big ones is the script, which does seem clumsy at times. There were things that should have been caught at the read through and adapted. Less people gasping and going "a spy fly!" for example. That said, this is still the show I watch religiously every Sunday night, so it's not that bad!

I enjoyed Farder Coram's chat with Lyra on the deck of the barge. Even though the show has been taking it's time with many background scenes, I don't think it's really been developing characters and relationships all that much. It was good to have that pause in the forward movement of the Oblation Board plots in which the characters had a bit of a chance to breath. Also liked the moment when Ma Costa was showing Lyra her trick with the powder (anyone know what that was supposed to be?) The bit where Lyra was really delighted with it was verging on book!Lyra. 

Not sold on the early introduction of Boreal and his world hopping; I like the actor, but I agree that it spoils the rather elegant structure of the first book. The moment with him finding his car had been clamped was pretty funny. I await the webisode "Lord Boreal catches the train to Swansea (change at Reading; bus replacement service Cardiff Central to Bridgend) and stands in a long queue at the DVLA". 

Edited by dog-days

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11 minutes ago, dog-days said:

I do agree with people who think the show isn't getting Lyra right. The joie de vivre is missing, and the innocent pleasure of going off on massive flights of fancy. In some ways (mild spoiler for Secret Commonwealth)

  Reveal hidden contents

she seems more like the book version of Lyra will be in ten years time. Somehow lost and beaten down and hostile.  

I wonder if the change in emphasis happened because Daphne Keene is a bit older than Lyra in the books -  it's only a couple of years' difference, but that's still a big jump at that age.  

Since the Secret Commonwealth is fresh in my mind I was thinking something a bit similar.

12 minutes ago, dog-days said:

Not sold on the early introduction of Boreal and his world hopping; I like the actor, but I agree that it spoils the rather elegant structure of the first book. The moment with him finding his car had been clamped was pretty funny

It was a nice piece of wordless comedy. There must be many things he finds confusing in our world.

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1 minute ago, williamjm said:

It was a nice piece of wordless comedy. There must be many things he finds confusing in our world.

Yeah - I think especially effective because he's previously been so controlled and full of gravitas. 

Re: Secret Commonwealth

Spoiler

Yeah. And I think that my reading of the recent novel has meant that the way Lyra appears in the tv series is more disappointing than it might otherwise have been - post TSC, it's nice to remember that Lyra does/did have this great capacity for happiness and enthusiasm. 

 

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9 hours ago, Isis said:

So so so ready to get to the north, meet Lee Scoresby and Hester. 

I'm still not totally feeling Lyra. If she doesn't show a bit more character soon then she might not be convincing enough when she does take action. 

Not sure how I feel about the golden monkey having an existential moment about death - when the dæmon disappears as the Gyptian dude kills himself. It made me feel weird and uncomfortable and I guess that's the point. 

Someone I know online was complaining they didn't understand what was going on (they've not read the books). I said 'some kids have been kidnapped and people want to get them back'? Then they said 'and the talking animals!'... I replied that I think the dæmons have been explained a few times. I especially think that Mrs Counter and the golden monkey are used to great effect to show the relationship between a person and their dæmon: sometimes they act in unison (when they fight the gyptian), other times they display different facets of the same emotions, and other times one hides all emotion and but the other shows it. I think that it's really well done.

Ultimately the guy who didn't get what was happening confessed he was paying more attention to his phone than the TV. 

Yeah, i think most complaints of “its too confusing!” boil down to the viewer not paying attention rather than the show. Granted i have read the books and have that prior knowledge but i feel they’ve explained everything that should be explained and left some deliberate question marks that are intended to be mysteries and revealed later.

 

I’m also hugely excited for Lee and Hester. I was hesitant about LMM at first because he really doesn’t fit my image of Lee, but i think the brief scenes i have seen in previews has sold me that its a different interpretation but it works.

And I’ve been mighty impressed by the visuals so far so i cannot wait for Iorek either.

 

I’ve just finished my re-read of The Northern Lights, actually. It’s kind of funny because a lot of stuff vaguely mentioned in the books appears in the show - prime example, the ransacking of Jordan College in the search for Lyra.

 

Last point, Ruth Wilson continues to be fantastic. In particular this week, her balcony ledge scene and her attacking Benjamin like her monkey. Plus, we got yet more of her morbidly staring from a great height as though she contemplated plunging herself into an Abyss....*cough*

 

Question; in the books she isn’t separated from her daemon is she? The Bolvangar nurses are sure, but seems to me Mrs Coulter is still “whole.” Does something later contradict that or is this a change for the show?

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14 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

 

Question; in the books she isn’t separated from her daemon is she? The Bolvangar nurses are sure, but seems to me Mrs Coulter is still “whole.” Does something later contradict that or is this a change for the show?

Someone I've been discussing this at work with said that the separation is canonical (she's been doing a reread like you). I can't remember the Golden Monkey being able to separate, though I read NL a very long time ago. 

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I was impressed by how Boreal bounced back from his car getting clamped to immediately getting hold of a Tesla.  Tbh he seems very street smart, can use a smartphone and understand computers. You’d think he would know about urban parking restrictions.

One other thing which reoccurred to me after 20 years - John Parry must have been really excited about changing his boring name for the new world - “Henceforth I shall be known as Stanislaus!”

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1 hour ago, dog-days said:

Someone I've been discussing this at work with said that the separation is canonical (she's been doing a reread like you). I can't remember the Golden Monkey being able to separate, though I read NL a very long time ago. 

There is certainly nothing in the Northern Lights that makes this canonical, but i will provided updates as my re-read continues :cheers: (these books still manage to charm me as i reread them. I just love this universe so much)

1 hour ago, john said:

I was impressed by how Boreal bounced back from his car getting clamped to immediately getting hold of a Tesla.  Tbh he seems very street smart, can use a smartphone and understand computers. You’d think he would know about urban parking restrictions.

One other thing which reoccurred to me after 20 years - John Parry must have been really excited about changing his boring name for the new world - “Henceforth I shall be known as Stanislaus!”

I wasn’t sure what we were supposed to take from the clamping scene when i was watching - i had wondered if it was to imply someone was watching him and thus knew where the window was. I was quite glad to come here and find others explaining this as a bit of humour!

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Very, very minor nitpick. But in John Parry's picture he had the wrong beret and cap-badge for a royal marine.

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Yeah the fact that Mrs Coulter seems to be able to separate from her daemon is never explained. Nor is the fact the he is not named and never speaks. I’m certain that they have not been separated by intercision though as he has too much personality for that.

 

Minor point: I think it would be nice if they had more daemons talking. It’s probably a budgeting thing.

Edited by Stannis Eats No Peaches

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I've forgotten whether daemon's can even talk to people other than their human.  I thought it might be only their human can hear them, but the past episode i think one talked to another.

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Just now, SpaceChampion said:

I've forgotten whether daemon's can even talk to people other than their human.  I thought it might be only their human can hear them, but the past episode i think one talked to another.

Yeah,  in the books daemons can and do talk to each other, if so inclined. 

They can talk to other humans too, but it lies somewhere between being a breach of etiquette and a taboo. 

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That's all part of its sinister af aspect though. There's something pretty cold about Mrs Coulter - on a deep level, for all that she does have feelings and shows them sometimes. Actually the monkey shows the odd bit of softness in the books I seem to recall. But mostly it's totally deadpan. It gives no social cues, so people don't know how to react to it. Basically it's intimidating in its refusal to fit into the accepted behaviours of humans and dæmons. Like, dæmons greet each other a lot (touching noses) in the books. I bet the stupid golden monkey doesn't allow other dæmons to touch it (except Stelmaria). So edgy. 

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He is very cunning though, and puts on he charm when needed - he supports Mrs. Coulter  in her role as The ChildSnatcher, and in he case of Tony Makarios at least, we see him acting affectionately to do so. We are also told he resorted to violence in this role as well though, when Lyra is listening the the other children at Bolvangar.

And i think he does show emotion and is not merely eerily bland. Those emotions are primarily rage, agitation etc. Though (e.g. after Mrs. Coulter takes Lyra from the guillotine and he grows impatient for Mrs. Coulter to take the alethiometer.

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4 hours ago, Stannis Eats No Peaches said:

Definitely not taboo, just a little unusual. The Golden Monkey is definitely unusual in that it never says a word, despite getting a lot of page time.

He also never gets named on page

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21 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

There is certainly nothing in the Northern Lights that makes this canonical, but i will provided updates as my re-read continues :cheers: (these books still manage to charm me as i reread them. I just love this universe so much)

While I haven't re-read the whole book I've been skimming a few of the passages to compare them to the show. During Mrs Coulter's party Lyra notices that Mrs Coulter doesn't have her daemon with her. Shortly afterwards Pantalaimon sees the golden monkey coming out of Lyra's room, apparently having been searching for the alethiometer. I'm not sure whether that's enough distance to count as separation in the same way that some other characters in the books experience it, but it's definitely hinting at it.

9 hours ago, Stannis Eats No Peaches said:

Yeah the fact that Mrs Coulter seems to be able to separate from her daemon is never explained.

The more recent books suggest this sort of thing might be more common that we think but it might be a social taboo to discuss it which is why Lyra doesn't know about it.

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