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Religion vs Atheism Book 2


Stubby

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Some of them are timeless, but it would be extremely difficult to explain the structure of the universe to human beings without fundamentally changing the nature of the latter. After thousands of years of effort, we've managed to make some progress towards understanding, but even today we're very far from mastery of any given field of science (and the very existence of these fields is an admission of the fact that the overall problem is too big).

Yes some are. Most of them predate Christianity.

And some aren't. Why was god so pigheaded and wrong on those?

Oh wait, I know. Men wrote all of them and said they were divine.....

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Anybody else find the theory of evolution actually quite spiritual? It's not just cold science. The earth literally spent aeons forming and shaping us along with the rest of life on this planet into what we are today. God didn't place us here one day out of nowhere, we spent millenia being molded by nature itself. We are as much a part of Earth as the trees and water. To me, our abilities with cognitive function give us the responsibility of taking care of the only reason we are alive.

Forget the Biblical creation myth, that is the most beautiful, poetic, compelling reason to say we belong to this planet I know of.

Just some random thoughts I've had recently.

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Very good, very good, yes yes yes. Evolution is beautiful in its own slimy physical biological way. I mean, a lot of people don't appreciate the sensuality of the material these days, but living organisms, whether ants or dogs or humans or elephants or an entire ecosystem, are pretty fucking amazing and wonderful and beautiful.

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Very good, very good, yes yes yes. Evolution is beautiful in its own slimy physical biological way. I mean, a lot of people don't appreciate the sensuality of the material these days, but living organisms, whether ants or dogs or humans or elephants or an entire ecosystem, are pretty fucking amazing and wonderful and beautiful.

Can't tell if sarcastic or sincere haha. Just my own early morning pre-coffee thoughts is all.

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Could any religious person explain to me why god would have any special feelings towards humans? It has created the whole universe, has infinite intelligence and power. For such being humans would be nothing more than microbes are to us.

Because we're his greatest creation and were given domain over the Earth? You've got to remember that when these books were written the world was flat and the sun revolved around the Earth.

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So? Why is this a problem?

Though I note you seem to be well aware of the limitations this supposedly powerful deity has. What type of shite god has trouble explaining physics? At they very least couldn't been like "just a heads up, earth orbits the sun which is one of billions of stars that make up your galaxy, which inofitself is just one of millions of galaxies. Oh and wash your hands, disease is caused by tiny organisms not the four humours." But either of those "issues" are not issues for a being that is supposed to have created us and the universe.

Do you know how many cases of Leprosy Jesus could have prevented by telling people about better hygiene?  But instead, every time he is asked why he doesn't wash, he dodges the issue, and shames the folks who asked him.  "Oh yeah, well maybe I didn't wash my hands, but you guys are mean to your mom and dad."

Holy Shit - The radical right are doing as Jesus does!

 

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I'm sincere! I love living things. This whole world, this universe, all these people, it's all pretty fucking amazing and we should all enjoy and appreciate it!

Ah, you can never tell through text. And well said, well said. I find it a bit sad that there are some that cannot appreciate the beauty of life and the world without god looming somewhere in the background, but I suppose it is not really my place to tell them what to think. Nice to see some others share a similar idea like I do. Cheers!

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Do you know how many cases of Leprosy Jesus could have prevented by telling people about better hygiene?  But instead, every time he is asked why he doesn't wash, he dodges the issue, and shames the folks who asked him.  "Oh yeah, well maybe I didn't wash my hands, but you guys are mean to your mom and dad."

Holy Shit - The radical right are doing as Jesus does!

 

Wait till the pro-capitalism religious hard right finds out what Jesus said about rich people and greed.

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Ah, you can never tell through text. And well said, well said. I find it a bit sad that there are some that cannot appreciate the beauty of life and the world without god looming somewhere in the background, but I suppose it is not really my place to tell them what to think. Nice to see some others share a similar idea like I do. Cheers!

Cheers! Yes, text can be a difficult medium. All kinds of ambiguities can leak in, and none of us can see each other's faces or eyes or whatever, the bastions of traditional human communication. So we are sort of lost in space, as it were, but, well, here we are.

Personally, what I like about my conception of God - God as All That Exists - is that loving God, and accepting reality turn out to be the same thing. So even if there is no "God" God, like in a literal, or traditional, or physical sense, there is a reality, and accepting reality is one of the most sane acts a human can do. Accept it all. Accept everything and move on and enjoy being alive. It's great to see many of us are on the same page here and don't need to trip out about semantics, get all crazy and blow shit up or whatever, the way some people get.

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HA!  Well that's where a literal interpretation of the Bible comes in handy!  The "Eye of the Needle" is actually gate in Jerusalem, dontcha know.

How could I be so blind?!?!?!?

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Has anyone read or viewed the "Bible Unearthed" by Israel Finkelstein?
The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts[1] is a 2001 book about the archaeology of Israel and its relationship to the origins of the Hebrew Bible. The authors are Israel Finkelstein, Professor of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University, and Neil Asher Silberman, a contributing editor to Archaeology Magazine. 
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Could any religious person explain to me why god would have any special feelings towards humans? It has created the whole universe, has infinite intelligence and power. For such being humans would be nothing more than microbes are to us.

To a genuinely infinite being, there is no meaningful difference in size between humans and the structure of the universe (even though they're orders of magnitude apart). That said, there are several explanations for the discrepancy in size:

 

1) There is no creator. The universe is a random vacuum fluctuation or something of the sort and life is a random occurrence on a random world.

2) There is a creator, but we are not the intended creation. It's as if somebody built a very large house and a bunch of ants set up a colony in a wooden beam (although at the moment, the scale is still rather different).

3) There is a creator and we are part of the intended creation, but there are many other parts.

4) There is a creator, we are the intended creation and the universe is so big because that is what it takes to get one world with beings capable of consciousness.

5) There is a creator, we are the intended creation and the universe is not as large as it appears to be. If you look at the sky at night in a well-made video game, you can see stars and they may even be arranged into constellations... but they're just points of light (there are no other worlds, you're just intended to think that there are). The same is true for time: you can find the skeletons of ancient creatures, but those skeletons come pre-baked into the world (there was never a time when they were alive). In our universe, we can explore the solar system, but with the maximum speed being that of light, the rest of the universe is currently off-limits.

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Do you know how many cases of Leprosy Jesus could have prevented by telling people about better hygiene?  But instead, every time he is asked why he doesn't wash, he dodges the issue, and shames the folks who asked him.  "Oh yeah, well maybe I didn't wash my hands, but you guys are mean to your mom and dad."

Holy Shit - The radical right are doing as Jesus does!

 

Great point, why wouldn't someone with divine knowledge use it to benefit humanity? Why not tell people about vaccinations or sanitation or agricultural techniques that could sustain more people? 

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Great point, why wouldn't someone with divine knowledge use it to benefit humanity? Why not tell people about vaccinations or sanitation or agricultural techniques that could sustain more people? 

Because there are more examples of god being a jerk than a swell fellow in the OT/NT?

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Great point, why wouldn't someone with divine knowledge use it to benefit humanity? Why not tell people about vaccinations or sanitation or agricultural techniques that could sustain more people? 

Where do you stop? Why not also cure all diseases, prevent all accidents and provide for everyone's needs? It certainly can be done and some traditions claim that it was done to some extent (see the story of Prometheus), but the world would be quite different if it was taken far enough.

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Where do you stop? Why not also cure all diseases, prevent all accidents and provide for everyone's needs? It certainly can be done and some traditions claim that it was done to some extent (see the story of Prometheus), but the world would be quite different if it was taken far enough.

Again so? Why is this a problem? The world would be different, so fucking what?

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Where do you stop? Why not also cure all diseases, prevent all accidents and provide for everyone's needs? It certainly can be done and some traditions claim that it was done to some extent (see the story of Prometheus), but the world would be quite different if it was taken far enough.

Well, I point out the Leprocy example because he had no qualms about curing that disease.  He just refused to use a method that would scale effectively.  So, why would he chose to do that: out and out cure a disease for a handful of sufferers, but not tell people about the steps needed to effectively control the disease?  Hell, why would he cure the disease and allow the person he cured to walk back into the same conditions where he got the disease in the first place.

You can ask "Where do you stop?" if you want, but clearly that was not a stopping point for Jesus.  Where he did stop on curing Lepers seems to have been right where human knowledge stopped (at the time the books were written, decades after the time Jesus was purported to be around.)  

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