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Magnar of Skagos

Mistakes/Contradictions in the books?

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That does not answer my question was about why Glover told Davos the wedding was at Barrowton and Manderly tells Davos he is going to WF. Perhaps I am not expressing myself properly so I will repeat. How, why does Manderly tell Davos he is going to WF for the marriage when Glover says the Lords have been summoned to Barrowton.

It probably is just an editing mistake, since GRRM often moves chapters around.

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The appendices of Feast and Dance contradict each other when describing the Most Devout. In Feast the Most Devout includes Septas like Unella but in Dance only the Septons are listed as Most Devout and the septas are instead listed as the Queen's gaolers.

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It probably is just an editing mistake, since GRRM often moves chapters around.

Cool. That's why I put it in the thread titled Mistakes/Contradictions. Glover, Manderly and Bolton statements contradicted each other.

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Well, the Winterfell-Barrowton contradiction could be resolved if we assume Lord Wyman received the news about the changed location for the Bolton wedding while Robbett Glover was fetching Davos. Say, because the Freys had had word and told Wyman during the celebration, or something like that.

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I don't worry about the eye color differences since my own eyes can look green, blue or grey depending on what I'm wearing. 

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There are remarkably few considering how much he's written. But yeah, eyes change color. Horses change gender. One whore's hair color changes. The harbor at King's Landing goes from being outside the gates to inside them. The Septon at the Wall is misidentified as Chayle in one of Jon's last chapters. Jeyne Westerling's hips change size. Catelyn suggests Weirwood heart trees are strictly a northern thing but then they're not. One of Egg's Sons goes from being married in Barristan's telling to being a "confirmed bachelor" in the worldbook. Barristan also got confused writing in the White Book.

I'm sure there are more that I'm forgetting. Plus then there are some typo's depending on what edition you have. I think it's my print copy of Feast that refers to an Aenys II when they meant Aerys. 

Barristan did not make a mistake in writing the White Book (that entry would have been written by Gerold Hightower anyway). Barristan's mistake was in trying to recall the events regarding the tourney with Simon Toyne.

 

In ADWD, Barristan states to Quentyn that the Red Viper was his uncle, and that the marriage pact was made by two dead men. Whilst the second statement can be resolved by saying that Barristan meant the Sealord and Darry, the first statement (speaking in past tense) implies Barristan has knowledge regarding Oberyn's death, while, in fact, that seems quite impossible, considering both Joffrey's death and Tywin's death would be much more high profile for Meereen, and those deaths have yet to reach Slaver's Bay. That's a slight mistake.

 

There's also the passage in The Queenmaker where Arianne receives news regarding Tywin's death, whilst speaking only moment before about the Lion who had died. IIRC, in later editions, that passage has been altered

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Rhaenys,

the latter mistake about Arianne has been corrected in subsequent editions.

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Barristan did not make a mistake in writing the White Book (that entry would have been written by Gerold Hightower anyway). Barristan's mistake was in trying to recall the events regarding the tourney with Simon Toyne.

Right, my bad. 

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After Ned is taken prisoner and the Stark household is put to the sword, Arya cannot sneak through the gates because no one may leave the city without permission. And yet she is able to make it to the docks, which are outside the gates...

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Cool. That's why I put it in the thread titled Mistakes/Contradictions. Glover, Manderly and Bolton statements contradicted each other.

Well, the Winterfell-Barrowton contradiction could be resolved if we assume Lord Wyman received the news about the changed location for the Bolton wedding while Robbett Glover was fetching Davos. Say, because the Freys had had word and told Wyman during the celebration, or something like that.

That is what I was suggesting.

 

1 that is definitely an inconsistency, though I would say GRRM probably just changed his mind but Gulltown is shown as a town on the map in AGOT, and is later updated to a city.

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Well, the Winterfell-Barrowton contradiction could be resolved if we assume Lord Wyman received the news about the changed location for the Bolton wedding while Robbett Glover was fetching Davos. Say, because the Freys had had word and told Wyman during the celebration, or something like that.

Okay, as you say, maybe the Freys had had word and told Manderly the location was changed. The Barrowton-WF inconsistency solved. Manderly leaves WH travels up river to WF.

Second part of the inconsistency Roose is staying at Barrow Hall. Ramsey is staying at Barrowton. Roose and Ramsey meet to have a chat. According to them Manderly is in the vicinity. They have laid eyes upon Lord Lamprey and even spoken with him.

“What I noticed was he brought no hostages.” Reek p424

“I noticed that as well.” Reek p424

So, I gotta figure there has been a mistake in the text or Manderly lied to Davos about going to WF for a wedding. That would be kinda dumb, since Glover already told Davos that the lords had been summoned to Barrowton. Ahhhhhhhhhhh, light bulb moment, Manderly lied to Davos.

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In agot, in the first Catelyn chapter, Ned says that Tommen was still "sucking the Lannister woman's teat the last time I saw him" and Cat replies "Prince Tommen is seven". However, in the first Ned chapter when Robert arrives, it's said that Ned and Robert haven't seen each other in 9 years since the Greyjoy rebellion.

Maybe he saw Cersei with Myrcella, but after 9 years he didn't really remember which kid it was ? I think that would fit well agewise ?

In the real world friends and family members often mix up siblings. I think we have all seen that happen. 

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Maybe he saw Cersei with Myrcella, but after 9 years he didn't really remember which kid it was ? I think that would fit well agewise ?

In the real world friends and family members often mix up siblings. I think we have all seen that happen. 

Myrcella is only one year older than Tommen, so if Ned was mixing children up, it would have to have been Joffrey, meaning it would have had to have been more than nine years ago.

It is possible that Ned saw Cersei with Tommen when Catelyn last saw Lysa with Robert, which appears to have been in early 293. Tommen would have been close to 2 years old at that point.

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Myrcella is only one year older than Tommen, so if Ned was mixing children up, it would have to have been Joffrey, meaning it would have had to have been more than nine years ago.

It is possible that Ned saw Cersei with Tommen when Catelyn last saw Lysa with Robert, which appears to have been in early 293. Tommen would have been close to 2 years old at that point.

You are right that Myrcella wasn't born until the year after Balons rebellion. :thumbsup:

There are so many dates to keep track off.

Edited by TheHodorThatWasPromised

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Stannis: "I sent my wife’s brother Ser Errol with Ser Parmen Crane to take them under my command, but they have not returned."(ACoK, Ch.42 Davos II)

—SER PARMEN CRANE, called PARMEN THE PURPLE, held captive at Highgarden,
—SER ERREN FLORENT, younger brother to Queen Selyse, held captive at Highgarden,(ASoS, Appendix)

Ser Error Florent does his worst.

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“The pease are overcooked,”(ASoS,Ch.53 Tyrion VI)

This one is a quibble, really, but I have multiple issues with it. For starters, pease is a collective noun, just like 'rice'.so 'it is overcooked', not 'they are overcooked.'

Secondly, what? She likes her pease al dente? It is very difficult to overcook pease. I suppose the texture can get a bit gluey if it is allowed to dry out, but a little water can repair it. Unless, of course, it has scorched the bottom of the pot.(even then, if you are quick and don't add water, you might be able to scrape off the top half of the pease and resuscitate them in a different pan. Although, that scorched taste doesn't take much time to get through the whole pot).

Thirdly, “They are green and round, what more can one expect of pease?" Well, one might expect pease to be green, but also grey, white, purple, yellow, even brown. One doesn't expect them to be round, especially if they are overcooked,more a kind of chunky mush. Even when barely cooked, they tend to split into hemispheres and smaller fragments.

What we call peas, were known as 'new pease'. They  are green and round, and the same species, but picked in spring, while still immature and soft. Spring is the season they are available, not fall. New peas became a faddish luxury for wealthy people in the seventeenth century. In the medieval, they were suspected of having cold wet humours that would give people fever and diarrhoea, like most vegetables, avoided by the aristocracy, or only appearing on the table after being boiled well and truly to death. So overcooked new peas would be considered sufficiently well cooked, while peas cooked just enough would be regarded as uncooked.

If peas are left to matured all summer, they become hard and  dry. Then, when they are harvested, they can be stored indefinitely, and have to be boiled a long time just to get them soft enough to eat. At this point, they became healthy, nourishing pease ( slightly coarse , low food, humble food) suitable for alll but the most refined constitutions (and possibly intended as an insulting hint to Tyrion about his changed circumstances).

In middle english, they spoke of pease and peason (or pise and pisam, or however they felt it should be spelt) rather than (modern english ) peas and pease. When they meant immature peas, they called them 'new pease' to distinguish them from dried 'pease', In the Elizabethan era, when they came into fashion, new varieties were cultivated especially for eating young - they named them 'garden pease' to distinguish them from field pease, and within a century the 'e' on the end was dropped too.

Properley, peason is the plural, but  medieval texts frequently use both pease and peason as the plural. The occasional use of pease in the singular can be determined in context eg.

They make alſo an other kind of breade of a certayne pulſe, called Panicum, muche lyke vnto wheate, wherof is great plentie in the dukedome of Mylane, Spayne, and Granatum. But that of this country is longer by a ſpanne, ſomewhat ſharpe towards the ende, and as bygge as a mannes arme in the brawne: The graynes wherof are ſette in a maruelous order, and are in fourme ſomewhat lyke a peaſe. While they be ſoure and vnripe, they are white: but when they are ripe they be very blacke. When they are broken, they be whyter then ſnowe. This kynde of grayne, they call Maizium.


(from Columbas' first encounter with the Indians (actually Haitians) according to book one of the first decade of Pietro Martire's  Decades of the Newe Worlde, first published in Latin in 1516, translated into Englysshe as part of The History of Travayle in the West and East Indies by Richard Eden in 1555. Republished as the first part of The First Three English Books on America (p.67) by Edward Arber, 1885)

 Although, In a later part of the History of Travayle, Eden uses the plural peason while describing the grain of the Ghanians in Africa observed in John Lok's voyage to Guinea. 

"They haue very fayre wheate, the ere whereof is twoo handfulles in length and as bygge as a great bulruſſhe, and almost foure ynches abowt where it is byggeſt. The ſteme or ſtrawe, ſemeth to be almoſt as bygge as the lyttle fynger of a mans hande, or lyttle leſſe. The graynes of this wheate are as bygge as owr peaſon: rounde alſo, and verye whyte and ſumwhat ſhynynge lyke perles that haue loſt theyr colour. Alsmost all the substance of theym turneth into floure, and maketh lyttle bran or none.

(p387 The First Three English Books on America)

 So maybe this isn't the best example. I suspect the grain he refers to is pearl millet.

Most cookbooks also give 'peason' rather than pease, as the plural.

Perry of pesoun. Take pesoun and seþ hem fast, and couere hem, til þei berst; þenne take hem vp and cole hem thurgh a cloth. Take oynouns and mynce hem, and seeþ hem in the same sewe, and oile þerwith; cast þerto sugar, salt and safroun, and seeþ hem wel þerafter, and serue hem forth. 

(Forme of Cury, c.1390)

In modern spelling: "Perry of pease. Take pease and boil them hard, covered, until they burst; then take them up and strain them through a cloth [presumably so you can remove the tough skins from the pease, then return it to the water it was boiled in W.]. Take onions and mince them, and boil them in the same water as the pease, adding oil; sprinkle sugar, salt and saffron, and boil well, until done, and serve them forth."

Well, ok, this middle English recipe uses the third person plural 'them', but with the plural peason, not the singular pease. (And GRRM writes in modern English, where the regular plural is peas, and pease is the collective noun, at least since 1755, according to Dr Johnson) 

Edited by Walda

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Jeyne Westerling's hips always really threw me. I was really sure Jaime had the wrong person, and a little part of me still wonders if GRRM didn't tell an out-and-out lie, though that's not really like him.

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“The pease are overcooked,”(ASoS,Ch.53 Tyrion VI)

This one is a quibble, really, but I have multiple issues with it. For starters, pease is a collective noun, just like 'rice'.so 'it is overcooked', not 'they are overcooked.'

Secondly, what? She likes her pease al dente? It is very difficult to overcook pease. I suppose the texture can get a bit gluey if it is allowed to dry out, but a little water can repair it. Unless, of course, it has scorched the bottom of the pot.(even then, if you are quick and don't add water, you might be able to scrape off the top half of the pease and resuscitate them in a different pan. Although, that scorched taste doesn't take much time to get through the whole pot).

Thirdly, “They are green and round, what more can one expect of pease?" Well, one might expect pease to be green, but also grey, white, purple, yellow, even brown. One doesn't expect them to be round, especially if they are overcooked,more a kind of chunky mush. Even when barely cooked, they tend to split into hemispheres and smaller fragments.

What we call peas, were known as 'new pease'. They  are green and round, and the same species, but picked in spring, while still immature and soft. Spring is the season they are available, not fall. New peas became a faddish luxury for wealthy people in the seventeenth century. In the medieval, they were suspected of having cold wet humours that would give people fever and diarrhoea, like most vegetables, avoided by the aristocracy, or only appearing on the table after being boiled well and truly to death. So overcooked new peas would be considered sufficiently well cooked, while peas cooked just enough would be regarded as uncooked.

If peas are left to matured all summer, they become hard and  dry. Then, when they are harvested, they can be stored indefinitely, and have to be boiled a long time just to get them soft enough to eat. At this point, they became healthy, nourishing pease ( slightly coarse , low food, humble food) suitable for alll but the most refined constitutions (and possibly intended as an insulting hint to Tyrion about his changed circumstances).

In middle english, they spoke of pease and peason (or pise and pisam, or however they felt it should be spelt) rather than (modern english ) peas and pease. When they meant immature peas, they called them 'new pease' to distinguish them from dried 'pease', In the Elizabethan era, when they came into fashion, new varieties were cultivated especially for eating young - they named them 'garden pease' to distinguish them from field pease, and within a century the 'e' on the end was dropped too.

Properley, peason is the plural, but  medieval texts frequently use both pease and peason as the plural. The occasional use of pease in the singular can be determined in context eg.

 Although, In a later part of the History of Travayle, Eden uses the plural peason while describing the grain of the Ghanians in Africa observed in John Lok's voyage to Guinea. 

 So maybe this isn't the best example. I suspect the grain he refers to is pearl millet.

Most cookbooks also give 'peason' rather than pease, as the plural.

In modern spelling: "Perry of pease. Take pease and boil them hard, covered, until they burst; then take them up and strain them through a cloth [presumably so you can remove the tough skins from the pease, then return it to the water it was boiled in W.]. Take onions and mince them, and boil them in the same water as the pease, adding oil; sprinkle sugar, salt and saffron, and boil well, until done, and serve them forth."

Well, ok, this middle English recipe uses the third person plural 'them', but with the plural peason, not the singular pease. (And GRRM writes in modern English, where the regular plural is peas, and pease is the collective noun, at least since 1755, according to Dr Johnson) 

This are the greater thing I has ever read.

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