season 5 deviations... don't make sense.

[Cymorococh]

I don't buy that introducing Jeyne wouldn't work for TV,

Exactly, all they need to do is make it known that Ramsay is known to be marrying a Stark girl and then have someone point out that the bride is actually Jeyne Poole, the daughter of the steward.

[Arrow of the Morning]

The rape lasted ten seconds and was entirely offscreen, so I highly doubt that brief scene was their goal. The most important things that happened in Sansa's arc this year was that she is now in the North, she's out from Littlefinger's thumb, and she discovered her brothers were still alive. 

For more short the rape scene was (and the subsequent abuses happened off screen) it had a great impact in her character development. She became passive and hopeless at the point she begged to Myranda kill her. The internal changes in the characters are the main things that happen in a arc, more important than where she went or learned. And for what we know, Sansa will become more confident, more skilled in political plotting and I don't need to say how different she become at the final of season 5. It doesn't matter if she goes from point A to point B or she learned something about her brothers if it screw all the characterization. And even this "achievements" she had are useless. She is not anymore in Petyr's hand, but not for her own efforts, and she became prisoner of a much worst person. The fact she learned about the true destiny of her brothers changed little either. Did it enhanced her desire to live? I don't think so.

And the Shock value was relevant in their decision, they stated in interviews how pumped they were in see the rape scene performed by a character audience was invested. It gave to them motivation enough to not even thinking a way to adapt Sansa arc in the Vale.

[Dragon in the North]

 

For more short the rape scene was (and the subsequent abuses happened off screen) it had a great impact in her character development. She became passive and hopeless at the point she begged to Myranda kill her. The internal changes in the characters are the main things that happen in a arc, more important than where she went or learned. And for what we know, Sansa will become more confident, more skilled in political plotting and I don't need to say how different she become at the final of season 5. It doesn't matter if she goes from point A to point B or she learned something about her brothers if it screw all the characterization. And even this "achievements" she had are useless. She is not anymore in Petyr's hand, but not for her own efforts, and she became prisoner of a much worst person. The fact she learned about the true destiny of her brothers changed little either. Did it enhanced her desire to live? I don't think so.

Yes, the rape affected her character development, but I'm talking about plot. The three things I've listed are going to have more bearing on the plot and move the story forward more than Sansa's rape. And Sansa as a character is still evolving. The rape isn't going to stop her character growth. It didn't for Daenerys and it didn't for Cersei.

And the Shock value was relevant in their decision, they stated in interviews how pumped they were in see the rape scene performed by a character audience was invested. It gave to them motivation enough to not even thinking a way to adapt Sansa arc in the Vale.

I don't really pay attention to interviews. I judge Martin and D&D by the product they produce, nothing more. And I didn't find that scene very shocking. In fact, I thought it was handled respectfully, compared to some of the other rape scenes that occurred in the books and the show.

[A Ghost of Someone]

The rape lasted ten seconds and was entirely offscreen, so I highly doubt that brief scene was their goal. The most important things that happened in Sansa's arc this year was that she is now in the North, she's out from Littlefinger's thumb, and she discovered her brothers were still alive. 

it was the only thing that was adapted out of the book storyline other than the jump.

[A Ghost of Someone]

what a ridiculous post. D&D are obviously pornographers who hate *insert your favourite character here* and wanted to have them *raped / killed / humiliated* for their own deviant sexual pleasure. Any other explanation is clearly ludicrous 

hello intern. You will never accept the fact that the rape was the goal with sansa in winterfell, will you? It is OK. We understand.

[Dragon in the North]

it was the only thing that was adapted out of the book storyline other than the jump.

What difference does that make? Sansa has a different story in the show, and her being in the North trying to find her brothers is what is going to drive her story and the overall plot forward, not the rape.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

No I agree. It was the only goal of the programme.

In fact I have suspected since the pilot that the entire production of the show has been an elaborate plot to get Sansa raped.. eventually... offscreen. That has been their ultimate goal since day one. 

I read an online interview with D&D and  if you took all the 3rd letters from the words D&D wrote, and put them together it spelled ' Lets Rpe Snsaa'. Its absolute proof. It cannot be denied with logic or sensible discussion.

 

[Stag_legion]

No I agree. It was the only goal of the programme.

In fact I have suspected since the pilot that the entire production of the show has been an elaborate plot to get Sansa raped.. eventually... offscreen. That has been their ultimate goal since day one. 

I read an online interview with D&D and  if you took all the 3rd letters from the words D&D wrote, and put them together it spelled ' Lets Rpe Snsaa'. Its absolute proof. It cannot be denied with logic or sensible discussion.

 

No one said that was their sole goal. The point is that D&D saw fit to diminish Sansa as a character and to have her raped to illicit strong reactions from the viewer base. That is blatantly obvious from their interviews on the matter. They thought people wouldn't freak out if a minor character like jeyne poole was raped so they put sansa there instead. Simple as that. they sacrificed a good story for sensationalization.

[Arrow of the Morning]

 

Yes, the rape affected her character development, but I'm talking about plot. The three things I've listed are going to have more bearing on the plot and move the story forward more than Sansa's rape. And Sansa as a character is still evolving. 

The plot went forward, but it didn't served Sansa in any way, she had no progression. In the final of Season 4 she started to become more independent, confiant and showing she learned about political machination, after 4 seasons being a passive victim in Joffrey's hands, in season 5 she became a victim again, just the tormentor has changed.

And we don't know if her discovering the whereabouts of  Bran and Rickon will play the most important part in Season 6, but a quest for revenge for the rape and all the suffering she had in Ramsay's hand. They drop the same piece of information about Bran and Rickon to Jon Snow in Season 4 and nothing happened. It is not surprising if the rape will influence Sansa development and actions in the next season. Using rape as character development is not uncommon, actually it so used that become a undesirable cliche.

The rape isn't going to stop her character growth. It didn't for Daenerys and it didn't for Cersei.

Actually the rape derailed her character, she regressed completely to a passive victim (again!). She became what Jeyne Poole is in the books: a passive victim, bend to submison by sexual abuse. That is the problem, in the next season they will have transform her back again in Sansa or wherever they want her to be. That shift in characterization didn't happen in Daenerys and Cersei, but it was due the fact that was easy for D&D put a shocking rape scene in their arcs. Actually, the fact that Jaime raping Cersei didn't changed nothing is much more result of bad writing than everything else.

I don't really pay attention to interviews. I judge Martin and D&D by the product they produce, nothing more. And I didn't find that scene very shocking. In fact, I thought it was handled respectfully, compared to some of the other rape scenes that occurred in the books and the show.

And the interviews both George and the Ds give us information about their thematic choices and adaptation choices they made. They said they wanted to transform the rape of Ramsay's bride in a more shocking scene transforming that bride in a character the viewers were invested. May be it didn't impressed you and some viewers, but the majority of the audience got shocked, what they planned worked, that reaction was what they intended, it was not a accident.

Sansa being rape was not the soft-core porn we saw in the rape of Craster's wives, but you don't need to show everything to shock or provoke certain reaction. Sansa scene was gratuitous in its own way, they modified everything, tortured the logic and bend the plot in a very forced wy, just to the victim to be there.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

No one said that was their sole goal. The point is that D&D saw fit to diminish Sansa as a character and to have her raped to illicit strong reactions from the viewer base. That is blatantly obvious from their interviews on the matter. They thought people wouldn't freak out if a minor character like jeyne poole was raped so they put sansa there instead. Simple as that. they sacrificed a good story for sensationalization.

Great post. Agree, they hate Sansa, but they love Ramsey.

Since Game of Thrones is actually about rape and nothing else, it makes zero sense to have the most important scene in the show happen to a nobody. It HAD to be Sansa, because they hate her. Which has been proved conclusively in an interview.Somewhere.



 

[Alayne's Shadow.]

What difference does that make? Sansa has a different story in the show, and her being in the North trying to find her brothers is what is going to drive her story and the overall plot forward, not the rape.

What difference does it make? I guess you lost the part where it says adapted out of something. If we're supposed to invent stories, then why the hell even use the names of those characters? Oh no, wait, they'll have the same ending, so it makes it "faithful". So, how they'll manage to end the same way? How does Sansa makes any sense as a character? A MAIN character, that is? She's supposed to be a protagonist, for fuck's sake. After her rape, Sansa did nothing. Is she looking for her brothers? No, she's begging a servant girl (Myranda, the worst creation I've ever seen) to kill her. 

Also, you'd think Sansa's political journey is supposed to be part of the appeal of the character. And what makes her storyline work, hence, her "ending" make sense.  

[TepidHands]

Don't feed the trolls.

[TheKitttenGuard]

Don't feed the trolls.

This is not a Rant and Ravens thread.  You actually deal with people with other views.

[TepidHands]

This is not a Rant and Ravens thread.  You actually deal with people with other views.

what some comments on this thread are is trolling, which is banned here in ALL conversations, not just RNR.

[TheKitttenGuard]

what some comments on this thread are is trolling, which is banned here in ALL conversations, not just RNR.

What are the trolls for you.  

The people posting that they do not see the main basis of S5 Northern storyline was so Sansa can be rape?

Is it the people who will accuse those people of being paid off or connected to D&D for disagreeing that the main basis of S5 Northern storyline was so Sansa can be rape?

[A Ghost of Someone]

First, not all interns are paid. second, all harmless tounge and cheek comments aside, hell and high water regarding story logic was moved to get Sansa to the rape room. That is beyond dispute. Sansa finding out her brothers are alive does them nothing. Theon could have been worked on by bran through the trees and ravens. Getting Sansa into Ramsay's hands was the motive. Refute it all you people want.

[Dragon in the North]

 

You're right, we don't know her season 6 arc yet, but I was making an educated guess, just like your making an educated guess that Sansa's season 6 storyline will revolve around revenge for Ramsay raping her. We won't know until April. As for Jon Snow, he and Sansa have two different character arcs. Just because there wasn't any payoff with Jon Snow finding out that Bran and Rickon were alive, doesn't mean the same will happen with Sansa. Remember, Rickon is rumored to make a reappearance this season.

Actually the rape derailed her character, she regressed completely to a passive victim (again!). She became what Jeyne Poole is in the books: a passive victim, bend to submison by sexual abuse. That is the problem, in the next season they will have transform her back again in Sansa or wherever they want her to be. That shift in characterization didn't happen in Daenerys and Cersei, but it was due the fact that was easy for D&D put a shocking rape scene in their arcs. Actually, the fact that Jaime raping Cersei didn't changed nothing is much more result of bad writing than everything else.

She wasn't passive. She's made several escape attempts of her own free will, something Jeyne Poole never did. I've seen no evidence that Sansa will simply snap back to the Sansa of season 4. And as I said, the character is still evolving and growing. She may be a victim now, but I doubt she will stay that way for three more seasons.

Why do D&D have to transform her back again? I've seen no evidence of this and don't understand why it will be necessary.

As to the bolded, I was talking about Cersei being raped by Robert in the books.

Also, I can't find the interview where D&D discuss the rape. Can you point me to it?

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

What are the trolls for you.  

The people posting that they do not see the main basis of S5 Northern storyline was so Sansa can be rape?

Is it the people who will accuse those people of being paid off or connected to D&D for disagreeing that the main basis of S5 Northern storyline was so Sansa can be rape?

pretty much , disagreeing with the thought police = trolling. 

Pointing out some of the unfounded ludicrous theories people have = trolling.

liking the show = trolling.

pointing out flaws in the books = trolling.

 

its strange how the rape scene lasted a couple of minutes at most.. But yet Sansa apparently did nothing else in the whole season and the entire Wintefell arc was 2 minutes long. 

[TheKitttenGuard]

first, not all interns are paid. second, all harmless tonge and cheek comments asside, hell and high water regarding story logic was moved to get sansa' to the rape room. That is beyond dispute. Sansa finding out her brothers are alive does them nothing. The heon could have been worked on by bran through the trees and ravens. Getting sansa into Ramsay's hands was the motive. Refute it all you people want.

You making an accusation that a person's opinion is not theirs and implicating stating the person view is not valid is not some harmless tongue n' cheek comment.

Sansa in the North is what D&D believe is needed to present the overall story for tv.  Her story is not over and we will see what happens. 

[Dragon in the North]

What difference does it make? I guess you lost the part where it says adapted out of something. If we're supposed to invent stories, then why the hell even use the names of those characters? Oh no, wait, they'll have the same ending, so it makes it "faithful". So, how they'll manage to end the same way? How does Sansa makes any sense as a character? A MAIN character, that is? She's supposed to be a protagonist, for fuck's sake. After her rape, Sansa did nothing. Is she looking her brothers? No, she's begging a servant girl (Myranda, the worst creation I've ever seen) to kill her. 

Also, you'd think Sansa's political journey is supposed to be part of the appeal of the character. And what makes her storyline work, hence, her "ending" make sense.  

You must not have been following our conversation, because what you are making is an entirely different argument. We're not debating the quality of Sansa's arc, but whether the entire purpose of it was simply to get Sansa raped.