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Stannis' Dragonstone


Hugorfonics

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The point of this little story is that the actual years of birth don't tell the whole story. Go to the discussion on how Stannis' year of birth was figured in the Wiki. It explains how Stannis' year of birth could be two years after Robert's while at the same time they are only a little over one year apart. I personally don't want to waste my time explaining anything more to you, because you aren't open to a two way discussion. You just want to state your opinion and disparage other people's opinions.

lol

You accused me of

 

 

You are the one making up shit to advance your own agenda.

I asked for evidence when I did this. You have failed to do so.

Since you're not willing to concede even the facts known from the story

Again, I asked for evidence for this and the only thing you could think of as a 'fact' was Stannis' age.

And even then I provided three separate quotes showing how it could easily be a two year difference.

I am more than happy to discuss this subject but you seem to be under the impression that anyone not agreeing with your opinion, and that is all they are, is some how being rude and disparaging.

Stannis is a sensitive soul, but there is little tangible evidence that Robert slighted him or even meant to slight him.

Roberts biggest fear is attack from the East. Robert's Navy is hugely important, more so than many of his predecessors, and he gave his brother control over this.

He also gave him control of the Narrow Sea Islands, even allowed him to give away land in the Stormlands and keep these new lords as his own vassals.

Now there are two things at play here, military and finances. Both are debatable on who got the better deal as the Velaryons (who swear fealty to Stannis) are either rich or capable of great riches. There has certainly been times in History were the Velaryons were far richer than the Baratheons and anyone else in the Stormlands.

Neither brother was given the sufficient resources to usurp the Throne. Renly's main advantage was not Storm's End but, like Robert and Edric, his Baratheon charisma. Something Stannis was lacking. I somehow doubt that even had he been the Lord of the Stormlands he would have been able to convince the Tyrells and Reach Lords to rebel.

 

 

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His claim comes behind 4/5 other people. Robert usurped the throne, the Tyrells were happy to support someone else doing the same. They don't care about the law that much, or clearly the Reach Lords would never have supported Renly.

 A claim behind 4 or 5 is still a claim. Robert and Renly were usurpers, but with claim. Even Euron knows the law and seeks Dany before Kingslanding.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

You mention that a marriage alliance with the Lannisters was a bad idea. Name these better prospects and please explain why they are better.

A new King who has just usurped his throne needs strong allies to keep it. This is just common sense. It is spelled out in the book

And Cersei … I have Jon Arryn to thank for her. I had no wish to marry after Lyanna was taken from me, but Jon said the realm needed an heir. Cersei Lannister would be a good match, he told me, she would bind Lord Tywin to me should Viserys Targaryen ever try to win back his father's throne,"

 You already said that and gave that quote, I already responded as simply as i could, I said something like this. Anybody is better to marry then a Lannister. Kings rule, Lords obey. When Lords grow too powerful the King makes laws, weakening the Lord. If the powerful Lord has say in court the dynamic dangerously shifts. The servant is on the same level with the master. I can't really explain it more, if you still don't understand then I'm sorry but we should stop this circular conversation.

 

No they were not. The Boelyns especially not. Thomas Boleyn was a greedy diplomat constantly looking out for himself, his greed and pettiness was legendary. There is a famous story about the transfer of  Durham lands between him and Wolsey when Boelyn knew the exact figure that 6 months profits should be.

The Boelyns became rich because of there association with Henry, first with Mary and then with Anne.

The Seymours too were hardly rich. Ferdinand and Isabella were rich, the Boelyns and Seymours were not. Not until both families used their marriage to Henry to feather their own nests.

 Just because your greedy doesn't make you poor. And Seymour was powerful, maybe not like Spain, but certainly powerful. But as I said, Henry VIII is a bad example as I don't consider him medieval.

LOL Walda Frey instead of Cersei Lannister? Now I know you are taking the piss.

Robert wants to add legitimacy to his reign, he is going to marry as high as possible, not a Frey, not a Northerner who has a different faith to the majority of his realm and not a Stormlander who he should already have his support.

All it takes is for him to marry one of your, frankly silly, suggestions and for a Lannister to marry a Tyrell or Hightower to put his new dynasty in danger.

Marrying a Lamnister will not legitimize Robert, his birth did that. If Lannister and Tyrell hook up they'll be dangerous for peace but not the dynasty, because they have zero claim. Besides this argument makes no sense. Lannuster can still marry Tyrell, or Hightower and any great lord, Robert can't bag em all.

 

What was your point. Henry's marriage was successful. It did not endanger him. Without that marriage he would never have been King as long as he was.

A strong marriage alliance meant the end to the Anarchy..

lol,  it endangered him every waking minute. A marriage is not successful when you lock up your wife kill your son and watch your empire fall in the hands of your fatuous kids.

No. He married after Stephen abdicated 

I have already seen some of the Three Kingdoms. I'm not sure how much is real and legend. Nor do I think that period in China is a great comparison to the medieval world GRRM uses for his template.

 With any 2000 year old history it's hard to separate legend from reality. However it's easy to separate fiction from them. Most is non fiction, aside from Diochan and the secret letter the Emperor writes in blood.

Why, it's like the exact same story as asoiaf. New feudal dynasty, civil war everywhere, it's got all the ingredients. 

You are kidding right? Octavius was far far worse than Tywin. He was ruthless long before he married Livia. We only have to look at how he treated Julia.

And again, you are missing the point, at this point Augustus had basically decimated the Roman nobility. His family were far, far more prominent than any other. Marrying a strong House had nothing to do with her ruthlessness, they were all following Augustus' example.

 

 Worse then Tywin? Did he rape his son, no?

Anyway, Julia was banished like 20 years into Livias marriage. As well, Augustus fought the other nobles (exclude Brutus and Cassius) after his second marriage. Livia was ruthless that's why the Juliia produced one emperor and the Claudiuns followed, all abysmal with short reigns.

I'm sorry. But I have no idea what part of my original point this was supposed to be answering. I'm going to chalk it up to yest another Myrcella comment from you.

Funny. No it was about if Highgareden controls the second biggest city and trade hub, giving them the first biggest and expecting them to not usurp the realms delight is rediculous. This is all obvious stuff, but if you don't think so I'll chalk it up as another King John and the Lionheart are strong heirs, comment.

 

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