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Sunandspear

Would you prefer if Rhaegar won?

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If he wins the war and deposes his daddy successfully, then he will take Jon back to KL (Lyanna died of childbirth so she still died), then Jon will be raised in RK. Elia is likely to be fine with this extra son of rhaegar just like Naerys. But Oberyn would likely try to kill him. 

Robert would die, rhaegar may spare Ned and Jon Arryn. So maybe Jon will be sent to winterfell in a later age and raised by Ned and Cat. 

This is all I can think about. 

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And rhaegar will kidnap another woman to create daughter Visenya. 

 

 

 

 

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If he wins the war and deposes his daddy successfully, then he will take Jon back to KL (Lyanna died of childbirth so she still died), then Jon will be raised in RK. Elia is likely to be fine with this extra son of rhaegar just like Naerys.

I've noticed that you constantly keep saying that Elia would be "fine" with Lyanna and Jon, meaning that she'd accept the shame and danger Rhaegar deposited in her lap because she'd have no other choice. What kind of "fine" this is? Having no choice isn't the same as being "fine". Not trying to kill someone isn't the same as "fine with them". It just means you're powerless. And that would be doubly true for Elia, unless she was a prophecy nut and wholeheartedly believed that Lyanna would give birth to only one child and it would be a boy, and kept believing it even after the baby turned out to be a boy who would be a threat to her own son. Why would Elia be fine with a "spare" and the spare's mother when she could reasonably expect that they'd try to supplant or kill Aegon or be used to that purpose by others?

And now it's "just like Naerys"? Naerys was the long-suffering wife of Aegon. She wasn't in position to be fine or not about anything. No one asked her how she felt. We certainly don't know that she was "fine" with being humiliated and having Aegon's bastards thrown in her face. If her son's reaction to Bittersteel and his mother is something to go by, she wasn't fine with Aegon's illegitimate offspring. Missy was clearly the exception but that was due to her personality and presumably due to the fact that she didn't have enough standing to pose a threat to Naerys and her children. When Barbra's father sought to elevate his daughter to queenship, Daeron and the ever dutiful Dragonknight who later died for Aegon thought this was too much.

Daeron most certainly wasn't fine with his father making children on a woman who sought to be queen, even after the expected death of his own mother, at a time the rumours about Naerys and Aemon hadn't even started and his own position should have been secured.

Edited by Anath

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I'm not saying I or anyone would want George to write a different book or suggesting that I don't like it. I specifically mentioned that as a reader I like the story the way it is, but if we look at it in-universe, I would want Rhaegar to win for the good of the realm. I just thought it'd be fun to speculate on the possibilities.

the Prince losing and getting killed is a major crux of the plot. The books we read can't happen without it. Speculating just ends up writing the story yourself.  

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I've noticed that you constantly keep saying that Elia would be "fine" with Lyanna and Jon, meaning that she'd accept the shame and danger Rhaegar deposited in her lap because she'd have no other choice. What kind of "fine" this is? Having no choice isn't the same as being "fine". Not trying to kill someone isn't the same as "fine with them". It just means you're powerless. And that would be doubly true for Elia, unless she was a prophecy nut and wholeheartedly believed that Lyanna would give birth to only one child and it would be a boy, and kept believing it even after the baby turned out to be a boy who would be a threat to her own son. Why would Elia be fine with a "spare" and the spare's mother when she could reasonably expect that they'd try to supplant or kill Aegon or be used to that purpose by others?

And now it's "just like Naerys"? Naerys was the long-suffering wife of Aegon. She wasn't in position to be fine or not about anything. No one asked her how she felt. We certainly don't know that she was "fine" with being humiliated and having Aegon's bastards thrown in her face. If her son's reaction to Bittersteel and his mother is something to go by, she wasn't fine with Aegon's illegitimate offspring. Missy was clearly the exception but that was due to her personality and presumably due to the fact that she didn't have enough standing to pose a threat to Naerys and her children. When Barbra's father sought to elevate his daughter to queenship, Daeron and the ever dutiful Dragonknight who later died for Aegon thought this was too much.

Daeron most certainly wasn't fine with his father making children on a woman who sought to be queen, even after the expected death of his own mother, at a time the rumours about Naerys and Aemon hadn't even started and his own position should have been secured.

I agree that she is not really fine with it. 

But like you said, she is powerless compared to her husband at this moment. 

Naerys had an adult son and prince brother to help her get rid of Barba. Herself is the Targ princess so she is more secured. 

But Elia did not have royal brothers and adult son. 

She can only be "fine" with it at this point. 

 

 

 

 

 

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I think Elia would prefer to be alive to be pissed off about Lyanna, after a Rhaegar victory, than for her and her children to be brutally murdered after the rebels won.

Dynastic instability is a possibility in an alternative timeline but that may be better than it being a certainty in current canon. Given the age of Aegon and Jon, it's also likely that a great big ice zombie apocalypse might decide that matter before it comes to blows between brothers (if it ever does).

I think that Rhaegar's problems would be of a more immediate nature - getting rid of Aerys, resolving his love life, dealing with the remaining rebel lords and factions, etc. I'm 100% per cent sure that Varys would not be retaining his position (and maybe not his head) if Rhaegar came to power, so there is that advantage.

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Rhaegar's victory would probably be better for the realm, as I believe he'd be a more capable king than Robert and he'd keep Littlefinger and Varys and maybe even Tywin away from (too much) power. So if I lived in Westeros, I'd want Rhaegar to win. But the story we'd have wouldn't be as exciting as it is now. There probably wouldn't be a a war of the 5 kings, Jon wouldn't go to the Wall, Dany wouldn't be an important character and there wouldn't be any dragons. So as a reader I like it the way it is.

What about you?

I like it the way it is.  Rhaegar lost, and Rhaegar died.  His folly and his death paved the way for the return of the dragons, and the emergence of the uber dragon, his little sister, Daenerys Targaryen.  Rhaegar was Dragon-Lite.  Dany is the true Dragon. 

Edited by Lame Lothar Frey

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Rhaegar's victory would probably be better for the realm, as I believe he'd be a more capable king than Robert and he'd keep Littlefinger and Varys and maybe even Tywin away from (too much) power. So if I lived in Westeros, I'd want Rhaegar to win. But the story we'd have wouldn't be as exciting as it is now. There probably wouldn't be a a war of the 5 kings, Jon wouldn't go to the Wall, Dany wouldn't be an important character and there wouldn't be any dragons. So as a reader I like it the way it is.

What about you?

Nah. I Think it was better that Robert won. I hate to see the villains win.;)

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Why would people prefer the author write a different book? If they don't like it they can always put it down

I really have no idea.

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Of course it would be better for the realm if Rhaegar had won. He would definitely be a better king than Robert and he would take action against the Others on time. This said, we wouldn't have these marvelous books but something complitely different.

What exactly is this supposed to mean? Robert was dead by the time word of the Others return reached King's Landing. Joffrey is king during the two major moments when the south learns about the Others, not Robert. Tyrion was Hand when Aliser Thorne shows up saying that the Watch was attacked by wights and Tyrion dismisses it, and Tywin would have been Hand when Aemon's letter about the defeat of the Watch at the Fist by Others and wights arrives (though never see how he reacts, but obviously he never sent them any troops seeing as only Stannis showed up). And Cersei/Kevan never did anything during Tommen's reign despite them knowing that Stannis went north to help the Watch.

There's nothing saying that Robert was ignoring the Others. He never knew about them being a threat, but IMO it's one of the reasons that Robert had to die apart from that his death would tear apart the realm: because Robert actually would have marched north unlike Tyrion/Tywin/Cersei/Kevan who did nothing. Robert had been itching for a fight for years. He'd grown bored at how peaceful the realm was and we see him reminiscing about how alive he was during the Rebellion but how dead he is now. He wants another war to feel alive again. If he'd been king when word reached King's Landing that the Watch was being attacked by beings out of legend, and that Mance Rayder had amassed a 100,000 man army and was trying to invade Westoros, Robert would have been the first one there.

So I'm not sure what you mean that Rhaegar would have taken action against the Others. Robert would have as well, he was just dead by the time that King's Landing was aware of the threat.

Edited by King of the Narrow Sea

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If Robert had lost, then Dany would not have fled Westeros as a newborn and her hatching dragon eggs would probably not have happened. No Dragons VS Others. Possibly no Starks save Robb and no Direwolve pups. No Red Comet to get Melisandre into a tizzy. No magic. Defeat by the Others certain.

     I'm sure Slavers Bay and the Iron Isles wouldn't mind though.

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Yes because the changing of the royal dynasty caused a great deal of problems down the line that are now being felt with the WO5K and the Baratheon regime falling apart right now. Also Rhaegar at least would have been a more capable king who would have done a lot more to fix the problems in the aftermath of the Rebellion something which Robert couldn't be bothered to do.

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Yes because the changing of the royal dynasty caused a great deal of problems down the line that are now being felt with the WO5K and the Baratheon regime falling apart right now. Also Rhaegar at least would have been a more capable king who would have done a lot more to fix the problems in the aftermath of the Rebellion something which Robert couldn't be bothered to do.

The Baratheon line is not falling appart. Its in a tough phase, just like the Targaryens have been through several times, but its far from over for the Stag.

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I like it the way it is.  Rhaegar lost, and Rhaegar died.  His folly and his death paved the way for the return of the dragons, and the emergence of the uber dragon, his little sister, Daenerys Targaryen.  Rhaegar was Dragon-Lite.  Dany is the true Dragon. 

Gag, what books are you reading?  Daenerys wouldn't have been fit to spit-shine Visenya's sword, nor have been fit council with Queen Rhaenyra, nor does she have the womanly wiles of Daena, or the sense of regal duty that mama Rhealla had.

It's not as if she created the dragons-that was magic.  It's not as if she's the first to own a dragon-Hundreds or thousands of dragonlords before her did that.  No one in Essos respects her as a dragonlord, they see her as a child with really desireable toys.  Baelor the Blessed instilled more fear in people.  She's a hot mess and she's going down to Dragonmount Town.

If Rhaegar saw in prophecy that Dany was ther last hope, he likely threw himself headlong into that war hammer.

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What exactly is this supposed to mean? Robert was dead by the time word of the Others return reached King's Landing. Joffrey is king during the two major moments when the south learns about the Others, not Robert. Tyrion was Hand when Aliser Thorne shows up saying that the Watch was attacked by wights and Tyrion dismisses it, and Tywin would have been Hand when Aemon's letter about the defeat of the Watch at the Fist by Others and wights arrives (though never see how he reacts, but obviously he never sent them any troops seeing as only Stannis showed up). And Cersei/Kevan never did anything during Tommen's reign despite them knowing that Stannis went north to help the Watch.

There's nothing saying that Robert was ignoring the Others. He never knew about them being a threat, but IMO it's one of the reasons that Robert had to die apart from that his death would tear apart the realm: because Robert actually would have marched north unlike Tyrion/Tywin/Cersei/Kevan who did nothing. Robert had been itching for a fight for years. He'd grown bored at how peaceful the realm was and we see him reminiscing about how alive he was during the Rebellion but how dead he is now. He wants another war to feel alive again. If he'd been king when word reached King's Landing that the Watch was being attacked by beings out of legend, and that Mance Rayder had amassed a 100,000 man army and was trying to invade Westoros, Robert would have been the first one there.

So I'm not sure what you mean that Rhaegar would have taken action against the Others. Robert would have as well, he was just dead by the time that King's Landing was aware of the threat.

 

I said two different things in one sentence. The first was that I believe that Rhaegar would be a better king than Robert. The second one was that Rhaegar would take care of the problem with the Others on time. I didn' t mean that Robert should take action against them, even if he didn' t know about them, but that Rhaegar knew about the threat since his youth and he would have been preparing to act even years before this threat appeared. As far as Tyrion, Tywin, Jeoffrey, Cercei, Kevan etc, they probably wouldn't be in charge if Rhaegar had won, since all these people were there as a consequence of Robert's ruling, So my thesis stands. If Rhaegar had won, he would have deal better with the threat of the Others. In my opinion, of course.

As for Robert being eager to fight the Others, I' m not so sure. I know that he got awfully bored during his reign because he didn't like ruling, but I think that it's not very probable that he would believe the threat was real. As most of the people, especially the people in the south, he'd just think that all these rumors and accounts about an ancient and supernatural enemy were absurd.

Edited by Dragonheart

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If Rhaegar killed Robert at the Trident, then he'd effectively take the edge, but it would take a while longer to seal a victory.

Stannis would still hold out for a long while at Storm's End since he's unlikely to bend the knee to the murderers of his brother. (even if he didn't like Robert)

The Vale-Riverlands-North Alliance is still a major hurdle and the only way to solidify a conclusive victory would be to capture or kill Ned/Hoster/Jon to force the regions to surrender or sue for peace.

The Iron Islands and Westerlands would pick the winning side and start harassing the Riverlands and the North.

Now would Rhaegar be a better king for the realm?

Considering the low standards placed by his father, Robert, Joffrey and Tommen...he'd be a better king for the realm by leaps and bounds. Probably even a great king by himself.

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For me, it's basically Rhaegar or Bob - and yeah, I'd prefer Rhaegar. Whatever that would have meant for following events, I don't care, Asoiaf is a world of chaos, anyway

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The Baratheon line is not falling appart. Its in a tough phase, just like the Targaryens have been through several times, but its far from over for the Stag.

Actually yeah they are at breaking point what with the only true Baratheons (Stannis and Shireen) trapped up North in the dead of winter and probably not making it out alive by the next book. Then we have the royal house of Lannister & Baratheon who's hold over the Iron Throne and Westeros is so fragile right now that even the slightest opposition against their rule may just destroy them. Not to mention their remaining heirs are marked for dead by prophecy.

Edited by Kaibaman

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Why would people prefer the author write a different book? If they don't like it they can always put it down

Exactly.  I hate these what if fan fictions threads.   But sadly what else is there to do 6 years later? 

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