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North vs Reach, who has the best fighter ?

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The North does'nt have anyone in the top 10, and I doubt if in the top 100. Mace Tyrell has 2 sons in the top 6 continent wide by word of the writer, and had Willas not been crippled it would have likely been 3, considering the resources and living tradition of the region. 

This isn't even a question. 

The Greatjon is probably in the top 100, to be honest.

Jorah too, I'd wager, his win at the Lannisport tourney was extremely lucky, but some measure of skill had to be involved.

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So far Northerner has more experience in battlefield but the Reach is the heart of chivalry and they do love the tourney, melee and all that sword pageantry stuff.

Which region do you think has the better fighter ? (not commander, but strictly from fighting skill)
If there were 7v7 trial by combat in which 7 northerner v 7 knights of the Reach, who'd you pick and who'd win ?

the women from the summer islands. 

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The North does'nt have anyone in the top 10, and I doubt if in the top 100. Mace Tyrell has 2 sons in the top 6 continent wide by word of the writer, and had Willas not been crippled it would have likely been 3, considering the resources and living tradition of the region. 

This isn't even a question. 

They definitly don't have anyone in Top 10, no, but it seems unlikely they wouldn't have anyone in Top 100, Greatjon is well respected, feared and insanely big and strong. HIs son is similar in strenght and stature. Jorah, and Jon are good as well, and Jory Cassel was surprisingly badass. Amongst known character they are definitly in the Top 100.

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The North does'nt have anyone in the top 10, and I doubt if in the top 100. Mace Tyrell has 2 sons in the top 6 continent wide by word of the writer, and had Willas not been crippled it would have likely been 3, considering the resources and living tradition of the region. 

This isn't even a question. 

I'd rate the GreatJon above both Garlan and Loras. Garlan is a better swordsman than Loras by Loras' own admission and he trains against 3 men at once - which is badass but still only training. It took 8 men to bring down the GreatJon - thats when he was drunk, unarmed and the Frey men meant business (that is - this was not some sparring session). Garlan could be more skilled, faster and have more raw talent but the GreatJon will have reach and strength. And he's not unskilled either (being noble born) - he has survived 3 wars and seen more battles than the entire Tyrell family combined. 

 

 

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I'd rate the GreatJon above both Garlan and Loras. Garlan is a better swordsman than Loras by Loras' own admission and he trains against 3 men at once - which is badass but still only training. It took 8 men to bring down the GreatJon - thats when he was drunk, unarmed and the Frey men meant business (that is - this was not some sparring session). Garlan could be more skilled, faster and have more raw talent but the GreatJon will have reach and strength. And he's not unskilled either (being noble born) - he has survived 3 wars and seen more battles than the entire Tyrell family combined. 

Garlan is the one who fought in Renly's armor at the Blackwater leading the Tyrell/Lannister van (which normally would have been Randyll or Gregor's job which should tell you a lot), where he pretty much single handedly shattered Stannis army because he was killing people left and right, among those slain which included Guyard Morrigan in single combat who was leading Stannis' van.

As to the Greatjon at the Red Wedding, couple things

  • Greatjon wasn't unarmed, the first thing he did was grab the sword from the first man who attacked him
  • The Freys did not "mean business" seeing as they weren't trying to kill him. They put him in chains when they finally got him because they wanted him as a prisoner, not dead, whereas Greatjon wanted them dead and had no reason to hold back and didn't.

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I'd rate the GreatJon above both Garlan and Loras. Garlan is a better swordsman than Loras by Loras' own admission and he trains against 3 men at once - which is badass but still only training. It took 8 men to bring down the GreatJon - thats when he was drunk, unarmed and the Frey men meant business (that is - this was not some sparring session). Garlan could be more skilled, faster and have more raw talent but the GreatJon will have reach and strength. And he's not unskilled either (being noble born) - he has survived 3 wars and seen more battles than the entire Tyrell family combined. 

 

 

:agree: this

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Martin has neglected the North as far as individual warriors of renown are concerned. But clearly, he has depicted them as very effective on the battlefield at large.

Martin has hinted that this is simply a case of the southron champions being more famous due to the frequent tourneys that are held all over the South, coupled with the fact that few southroners know much about the remote and isolated North. But I do feel that this does not fully explain his oversight, given that the northerners themselves should then have had plenty of campfire stories, songs and local legends about the great Northern fighters. Old Nan's stories to Bran, for example, should have included references to the Northern champions of renown, which it does not.

So in short, I think Martin missed a beat here. But it is quite clear that when he requires a random Northern warrior to suddenly defend Rickon from 5 southron assassins, he will just make it happen, as if there is no discrepancy in his story telling there.

Similar to how Tyrion is able to defeat a northern knight in the heat of battle, and Asha is able to kill almost 10 Clansmen, but at the same time the Northerners are able to defeat armies many times their own size over the course of the war itself.

So to conclude, Martin has not been very consistent here. I think it was an oversight, but he probably won't see it as such and will simply make stuff happen as required by the plot, as and when required.

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I would like to focus on the context the OP chose, a 7 on 7 trial of the (new) gods.

That's likely fought in an enclosed, definite space, cleared up for clarity of view and movement.

On this kind terrain I believe the Reach would win their cultural fight, probably fought with their cultural weapons.
If it played up like the other judgement of the seven we read of, the one with Dunk and half a Targaryen generation in it, it will be won by the Reach's knight easily, with five northmen down as the lances brake and the last two selling hard their skins against the five standing (and riding) knights.

It would be different if it was an axe and shield foot battle. Here the southern knights would lose their advantage in the familiartity of the weapons, the northmen would have that.

If the match was in war...
It would still depend on context: in a winter wood the northmen would easily pick the tired reach knight as they strive on the land having lost their horses to starvation.
If it happened at the side of a beautiful spring river, the advantage in logistics would be of the men of the Reach and I would bet on them, as the northeners would be probably well outnumbered.
But they do are aggressive, and in both cases we have of campaigns they were in, the Young Wolf and the northern intervention in the hot fase of the Dance of the Dragons, the northern aggressive ways shocked the andal's hosts hard, with consistent ability to get the surprise on their side.
They could surprise me, and their reach enemies.

Cheers!

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I mean, we don't really have these great Northmen superheroes outside of Greatjon and maybe the Smalljon, who is dead. They strike me more as Mountains than Roberts though. Excellent in a brawl, or full on battle, because they're just big dudes in armor with huge weapons smashing through ranks of unarmored, lightly armed peasants. Put them in a 1 on 1 though? Skill can beat that. 

I don't think Jamie mentioned the Greatjon as being able to beat him, but as being stronger than him. Perhaps he equates the two, I don't know. 

Regardless, Lord Garlan the Gallant would be all up in that ass. 

 

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I think it's erroneous to equate the mountain clan's ability to wage war in winter with the rest of the North. 

It's not like the Northern nobles spend their time campaigning in winter slogging around the snow all the time. Their warhorses and equipment would fair about as well as that of Stannis' southern soldiers in a blizzard. 

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I think it's erroneous to equate the mountain clan's ability to wage war in winter with the rest of the North. 

It's not like the Northern nobles spend their time campaigning in winter slogging around the snow all the time. Their warhorses and equipment would fair about as well as that of Stannis' southern soldiers in a blizzard. 

If you live in a region where it snows even in summer, won't you have some equipment and warhorses compatible for fighting in that condition?

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Due to a larger pool to pick from I'd say the Reach. But in the end of it, the region you are born in has very little relevance for how good you are at fighting.

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Reach has better comanders, Randyll Tarly comes to mind

Reach has numbers

Reach has economy to support and feed that army

Reach has ability to transport goods and men across water thanks to Arbor fleet, they could just land some men behind enemy lines during a battle and chaos would ensue.

North has nothing going for them, unless they are on defence. Moat Cailin is impossible to cross, but then again, it can be bypassed using ships. 

 

And even in one on one combat, or trial of 7, reach would come out on top, they simply have far greater and better fighters than the North

Reach all the way

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Reach has better comanders, Randyll Tarly comes to mind

Reach has numbers

Reach has economy to support and feed that army

Reach has ability to transport goods and men across water thanks to Arbor fleet, they could just land some men behind enemy lines during a battle and chaos would ensue.

North has nothing going for them, unless they are on defence. Moat Cailin is impossible to cross, but then again, it can be bypassed using ships. 

 

And even in one on one combat, or trial of 7, reach would come out on top, they simply have far greater and better fighters than the North

Reach all the way

but the ships can only attack a few places and amphibious assaults with medieval technology is... deadly for the attacker.

I see People keep saying that all any attacker has to do is attack by ship that's kind of hard to do when most boarders look like this DSC_0328-yorkshire-coast--1240x868.jpg

Attack that you silly armoured men!

But not all places. And the lack of navy doesn't help the north especially on the reach/west side as they can do what the iron born did attack from Kape Kraken.<- I maybe wrong about specific but if I am that's another place an invader can land.

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but the ships can only attack a few places and amphibious assaults with medieval technology is... deadly for the attacker.

I see People keep saying that all any attacker has to do is attack by ship that's kind of hard to do when most boarders look like this DSC_0328-yorkshire-coast--1240x868.jpg

Attack that you silly armoured men!

But not all places. And the lack of navy doesn't help the north especially on the reach/west side as they can do what the iron born did attack from Kape Kraken.<- I maybe wrong about specific but if I am that's another place an invader can land.

They can bypass Motte Cailin. They can land on stony shore. They can send a distraction force towards the neck and land in White Harbor while Northerners focus on the Neck. Ships allow them to resuply their force rather than live of land. Take Bear Island or White Harbor and use the fleet to send supplies, all the Northern advantages are lost. If you are loosing, board the ships, regroup and attack again someplace else, with other troops. Its not like North can chase them and sink them.

I dont see any advantage for the North against Reach. Hell, North cant do anything about the Ironborn, since they dont have ships to land on their islands and actually deal with them. Raiding can continue forever literrally.

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They can bypass Motte Cailin. They can land on stony shore. They can send a distraction force towards the neck and land in White Harbor while Northerners focus on the Neck. Ships allow them to resuply their force rather than live of land. Take Bear Island or White Harbor and use the fleet to send supplies, all the Northern advantages are lost. If you are loosing, board the ships, regroup and attack again someplace else, with other troops. Its not like North can chase them and sink them.

I dont see any advantage for the North against Reach. Hell, North cant do anything about the Ironborn, since they dont have ships to land on their islands and actually deal with them. Raiding can continue forever literrally.

Which I pointed out..... but you were more in debth.

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Reach has better comanders, Randyll Tarly comes to mind

Reach has numbers

Reach has economy to support and feed that army

Reach has ability to transport goods and men across water thanks to Arbor fleet, they could just land some men behind enemy lines during a battle and chaos would ensue.

North has nothing going for them, unless they are on defence. Moat Cailin is impossible to cross, but then again, it can be bypassed using ships. 

 

And even in one on one combat, or trial of 7, reach would come out on top, they simply have far greater and better fighters than the North

Reach all the way

How does the Reach have better commanders? 

Just because they have numbers don't make them better. I would put every regions army above of the Reach because every region have more experience than the Reach army. The North has the ability to build a navy very easily, they just barely did cause plot demands it. 

 

The North has held its own against lots of armies. 

And somebody remind me of these great Reach fighters, I only remember Tarly and the Tyrells. 

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Just because they have numbers don't make them better. I would put every regions army above of the Reach because every region have more experience than the Reach army. The North has the ability to build a navy very easily, they just barely did cause plot demands it. 

 

The North has held its own against lots of armies. 

And somebody remind me of these great Reach fighters, I only remember Tarly and the Tyrells. 

Experience is gained fighting. . Numbers enable them to do what others cant. As I said, they can march and army up the neck while sending another one on the ships without any difficultry. 

North doesnt have time to build a navy. Building a navy takes time. If they start building one when war starts its too late.

You dont need fighters, but comanders. Tarly's and Tyrells are more than enough to defeat the Northern ones

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7 best would end in slaughter, to our knowledge the north has no one approaching the level of Garlan, and very few on the level of Loras, Randyll and others.

 

7 randoms, despite what some claim, should be fairly even, men-at-arms should logically be of approximately the same quality across the regions, and the text largely supports this.

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