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redtree

Do People Buy Stannis's Word About Cersei's Bastards ?

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Against :
1. It makes him 1st line to the throne so many might see him just as greedy usurper
2. No proof, it's medieval after all and sometimes kids do favor their mother's look like Sansa, Robb etc

Pro :
1. Strong enough rumor to make 3 kingdoms rebel
2. Lannister has shit reputation anyway so people bias against them and might tend to believe the negative rumor
3. People who knows Stannis knows that he has a stern serious reputation not greedy, adding some incredibility to his word

Do you think nobles believe Stannis ? What about the common people ?

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Earlier into the war it amounted to what the text identified it as, gossip that was paid the barest amount of attention. Further into the series you can probably make a case that more and more people in the setting believe it. With the accusations of adultery looking like they'll stick to because of her confession, and the savagery that her regime has brought to the kingdom, the idea is going to grow in the minds of her opponents when they want to denounce her.

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I think that essentially people will believe what they want to belive. Those who really dislikes the Lannisters will jump at this while those who have ties with King Tommen will refuse to believe it.

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There are probably many who believe it but don't care enough to do anything about it. After all, why should they really care?

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Against :
1. It makes him 1st line to the throne so many might see him just as greedy usurper
2. No proof, it's medieval after all and sometimes kids do favor their mother's look like Sansa, Robb etc

Pro :
1. Strong enough rumor to make 3 kingdoms rebel
2. Lannister has shit reputation anyway so people bias against them and might tend to believe the negative rumor
3. People who knows Stannis knows that he has a stern serious reputation not greedy, adding some incredibility to his word

Do you think nobles believe Stannis ? What about the common people ?

Which 3 kingdoms?

IIRC, when the WO5K started, only Stannis knew about the twincest. Other kingdoms did not rebel becoz of the twincest.

- the smallfolk don't care.

- Renly doesn't believe it.

- The Starks believe it becoz they have that Bran incident and also the fact that Jaime confesses to Cat.

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I don't think anyone believes it because Stannis said it. People believe it because, like Robb's army, they are against the crown and it adds some legitimacy to their cause. It is really the same as when someone tells you a rumour about someone you don't like in comparison to a friend. You'll more readily believe the former.

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Some people believe and some people don't. Notice that during the riot some people yelled out "Brotherfucker!" Also, there is another scene where different people were shouting out the name of the person they felt was the proper king and some people yelled out "Stannis!" It is kind of in the nature of the beast when a claim is made that can't be definitely proven that some will believe while others don't.

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By the time of the end of ADWD, even Kevan Lannister believes it. I think the faith knows it for sure, they just have to "process" things in order to make changes "legitimately". They people believe it too but what they are more interested in is where their next meal is coming from and if they have a roof over their head.

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The smallfolk tend to believe the worst of their overlords. The lords believe it or not as suits their political ambitions despite what they really think.

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The smallfolk tend to believe the worst of their overlords. The lords believe it or not as suits their political ambitions despite what they really think.

this. :excl:

 

but I would add "majority of" at the start.

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1. Strong enough rumor to make 3 kingdoms rebel

What three kingdoms?  All of the kingdoms that rebelled against where already doing so before Stannis' letter.

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The smallfolk tend to believe the worst of their overlords. The lords believe it or not as suits their political ambitions despite what they really think.

Are people here familiar with that old joke (joke template, really), The Aristocrats? Better believe the smallfolk are ready to believe the accusations. As to how many do...well, the worse things get for them, the more likely it seems.

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I suppose the better question would be if the Lord's of the seven kingdoms discovered that stannis's letter was true would they care?

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I think many believe it. They were ruled by people who bred with their own siblings, so it's not very out of reach for them.

Also, the events before the War definitely looked suspicious: Jon Arryn dies, Stannis flees, Robert also dies and then, Ned replaces him and dies for being a "traitor".

The problem isn't about believing as much as what they can do about it. Like, what if, for example, Randyll Tarly believes it: he cannot rebel on his own nor he can openly say it because then, he and his family would be called traitors and get punished. He had to do what his Liege Lord asks them and this is to support the Lannisters, even if the Tyrells themselves believe it too (Marg's comments at Cersei): it's just convenient for them to pretend they know nothing.

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Yes and no we see the maid believing  it was true though jamie more or less told her I guess Dorne would also be quick to buy the farm if things go sour for the Lions and the Flowers 

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One dishonest House, Lannister (I do not think Tywin wanted to believe and never really did) was joined by another, Tyrell (they know but they are so power hungry, so, might is right) and together they are able to keep up the farce through military strength. Thanks to Cersei and some carefull prodding by Varys, this alliance is about to collapse.

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