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Who Died First, Jaehara or Alicent ?

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28 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

While I agree that Rhaenyra was Viserys' rightful heir, I don't think we can trust the passage about Aegon's reaction, as Ran indicated here.

Would that mean that someone who seems to be Green wanted to make excuse about the people he supported? I mean he wanted to prove that Aegon didn't wanted to do that and only when it was *proved* that his family was in danger and he was forced to betray his father.

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33 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Would that mean that someone who seems to be Green wanted to make excuse about the people he supported? I mean he wanted to prove that Aegon didn't wanted to do that and only when it was *proved* that his family was in danger and he was forced to betray his father.

That might be the reason. I wonder when exactly Septon Eustace wrote his history. But the whole stuff about Rhaenyra cutting her legs while fully armoured seems to be implausible and biased.

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14 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

That might be the reason. I wonder when exactly Septon Eustace wrote his history. But the whole stuff about Rhaenyra cutting here legs while fully armoured seems to be implausible and biased.

Exactly, that seems odd. The Aegon and the threat things actually put more negative to Alicent's image

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10 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

 

While I agree that Rhaenyra was Viserys' rightful heir, I don't think we can trust the passage about Aegon's reaction, as Ran indicated here.

Interesting quote!  However I don't think it really changes things.  If Eustace made it up, he did it for a reason, because thats how people thought Aegon should have acted.

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18 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

That might be the reason. I wonder when exactly Septon Eustace wrote his history. But the whole stuff about Rhaenyra cutting her legs while fully armoured seems to be implausible and biased.

Agree, some things about how Rhaenyra was seem really biased.

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The source material for this time seems to be a bit messy, anyway. There is Septon Eustace, a biased Green, Grand Maester Orwyle, who tried to save his own life by writing an apologia, Grand Maester Munkun, who used Orwyle's writings and apparently was a big player himself. And then there is Mushroom, who...well, is Mushroom.

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The discussion about 'the law of the land' is just crap. The 'law of the land' is whatever the king says it is, and the king choose his eldest daughter as his heir, not his eldest son.

Nobody did openly challenge Viserys I on this while he was alive, nor did anyone actually openly oppose the king or stage a rebellion against him because 'he had broken the law'.

The proclamation of Rhaenyra as heir isn't different at all from the installation of Rhoynish custom in Dorne. Prior to the coming of the Rhoynar the eldest son would have succeeded Mors Martell as Lord of the Sandship but that then suddenly changed when Nymeria chose to prefer her daughters.

That said, there is a small chance that Prince Aegon actually didn't expect to become king. From how things stand my guess is that Viserys I really didn't treat his children by Alicent as real Targaryens. And he specifically never groomed Aegon to be his heir. That means Viserys I would have made it perfectly clear to Aegon that he would never sit the Iron Throne, and neither would his younger brothers or children. Even if we assume that Alicent and Otto secretly told Aegon otherwise Viserys I's view of the whole thing would have greatly mattered for Aegon - after all, the man was his father and the anointed King of Westeros.

There is no hint that Alicent, Otto, and the other Greens included Alicent's children directly in their plots - if that had been the case one would expect that Aegon and Aemond would have present during that nightly Small Council session. If that's true then there is actually a good chance that Aegon was only directly approached and urged to take the Iron Throne after he learned about his father's death.

I'm pretty sure the fat little prick had coveted the Iron Throne for most of his life - and we know that he didn't get along with Rhaenyra since he was a very young child - but that doesn't mean that he was necessarily keen to claim the Iron Throne in the situation he found himself in. After all, he had may have been afraid that Rhaenyra and Daemon would come for him if he dared to proclaim himself king, not to mention that he might have not been keen to plunge the Realm into a war. Prior to the Dance Aegon's interests mostly seemed to have revolved around his own pleasures, and they had little to do with ruling, fighting, or waging a war. It is not unlikely that he had to nudged into showing his colors and openly claim the throne he wanted by Cole and Alicent telling him the fairy-tale that Rhaenyra and Daemon would definitely have to kill him to seat her on the throne.

Therefore there is a pretty good chance that Aegon II originally objected to or uttered doubts about taking the throne. But I'm pretty sure the reasons he gave were not the same Eustace wrote down. He couldn't have cared less about the right of his sister or the will of his own father. If he did, he wouldn't have been persuaded by Cole, his own mother, and grandfather.

As to the original question:

I think Jaehaera most likely outlived Alicent for the reasons stated above. Alicent and Jaehaera both died in the same year, and Alicent was carried away by the Winter Fever. Said plague also carried away the staunch Green loyalist Ser Tyland Lannister who served as the Hand, enabling Unwin Peake to take the office. In my opinion, Peake could only arrange the murder of Queen Jaehaera after he had risen to Handship, and considering that Alicent and Tyland died of the same decease I'm inclined to believe both of them predeceased Jaehaera.

But I could be wrong there. The fact that Alicent was imprisoned may have protected her from the Winter Fever for some time (she could only have been infected once the sickness had spread into the castle, and some sick gaoler or visitor carried it into her cell) whereas Tyland could have been one of the first victims in KL.

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