Anyone else rooting for Littlefinger?

[Batman]

HBO is airing mini Game Of Thrones marathons this weekend. Season 1 was on last night, season 2 is on right now. Something Littlefinger said on the series struck me and made me look at the overview in a new light. His quote about loving Cat and losing the duel to Ned's brother was: "That's their system, their rules. I don't want to play by their rules. I'm going to fuck them." I think he is right in general. The feudal system was very flawed and quite injust. The high lords care nothing about the common people, only how much power they can attain. None of them even have a nationalistic sense of pride. For the most part, loyalty is based on who gives which house the best chance for advancement. Their system deserves to be turned on its axis. Arranged marriages made for convenience, instead of love are another staple of the feudal system. I'm now rooting for Littlefinger to cause as much chaos as possible. At times, it seems like he's the only one with any common sense. He's already saddled the kingdom with massive debt and helped murder a king. What else can he do before it's all over? 

But he is not fighting to change the system. He is just using different tactics within the system to gain as much power as he possibly can, which is no different to what the Lords do. He is working towards the same goal as them by different means. I respect that he is self-made, but I can't root for him. The Lynn Corbray thing and what he did to Jeyne Poole is too messed up. 

[Batbob45]

I rather root for Varys than LF. LF is worse to kids(Jeyne Poole) than Varys is.

[kimim]

I love a trickster, so I've been rooting for LF all along. This is one reason why I like the Lannisters; they were founded by a trickster.

btw imo there's little depth to LF. He's not doing what he does to reform anything. He wants power, and being a happy little trickster, he creates chaos to get what he wants. GRRM obviously wants him to succeed up to a point, which means that, so far, LF is the only plotter who has succeeded 100% of the time. He even outplays Varys.

[Lady Flandrensis]

Read the books. What the tv show makes of him isn't vastly different, but he's more complicated than the series makes him.

I'm not a fan of him, as he pulls too many sociopathic moves for my taste.

[Meera of Tarth]

Yes, I'm rooting for him but not for the reasons stated in the OP. Here are my reasons:

1. He is a great and interesting and quite funny character.

2. I love all the schemes and intrigues.

3. I want to see how far he can get with all the "chaos is a ladder" thing.

4. A lot of people here seem to strongly dislike him so I'm looking forward to the meltdowns his future story and potential success can cause.

 ( 5. I also hope that he will not die eventually because he's one of my favorite characters and because that'd be too easy. I'd prefer stripping him of all his lands, possession and titles and let him live.)

 

I agree with you completely, the story has been better because of him. I'd love to see him not dying at all, or maybe, being someway defeated  when he has reached a lot of what he has always wanted

 

 

Apart from that, I sometimes root for unpopular characters, I don't know why but I've always liked him

 

The red line that I wouldn't like him to cross would be him killing one of my Favourites.

[PCK]

Read the books. What the tv show makes of him isn't vastly different, but he's more complicated than the series makes him.

I'm not a fan of him, as he pulls too many sociopathic moves for my taste.

 

I have read the books. I much prefer them to the show. It is hard to know LF's motivations from the books. His love/lust for Catelyn and the resulting duel with Brandon Stark may have a lot to do with it though. He either wants revenge against the Starks or he wants to change the feudal system from within. If it's the latter, he's definitely destined to fail. Westeros isn't quite there yet, as far as not wanting kings to be the supreme authority. Whichever the case, I do think he wants control of the North. 

[Light a wight tonight]

LF''s one of the most interesting characters in the story, which doesn't mean that I like him. I'm rooting for him to be killed, preferably by some plot hatched by Sansa. (I'd also like to see Sweetrobin have Lynn Corbray made to fly out the Moon Door, but I don't think anyone/s going back up to the Eyrie any time soon.)

[finger]

Answering the OP's question: read my nick!

Think how has His Lordship became what he was when we got to know him. He had been just a boy in love with Cat, and for that reason he was put down, nearly killed and rudely dismissed.

He was deprived of all he'd love, but he stood up back ready to play by the other people's rules,... and fuck them all!

Only love can defeat him now. And he can hardly have Sansa and sit her on a throne at the same time. He must solve if he sees in her a daughter, a lover, a tool to get the power, all in one... I don't discard he'll end up being the Hand while Sansa is Queen. Not easily, anyhow.

[redtree]

Not after what he did to Jeyne Poole

[Nerevanin]

I rather root for Varys than LF. LF is worse to kids(Jeyne Poole) than Varys is.

I wouldn't be so sure about this point. Was somewhere mentioned where little birds go? In AGOT when Arya overheards Varys' conversation with Illyrio, Varys says something like that he uses kids as young as possible so they don't understand the significance of what they are doing although they get killed easier. When the kids grow older and they realize the value of knowledge, I'm not 100% that Varys lets them go...

 

I have read the books. I much prefer them to the show. It is hard to know LF's motivations from the books. His love/lust for Catelyn and the resulting duel with Brandon Stark may have a lot to do with it though. He either wants revenge against the Starks or he wants to change the feudal system from within. If it's the latter, he's definitely destined to fail. Westeros isn't quite there yet, as far as not wanting kings to be the supreme authority. Whichever the case, I do think he wants control of the North. 

My humble opinion about book LF and show LF: Book LF have much more depth, he is more complicated and more mysterious and more confusing and it seems that he is up to many things but you can't be sure what things. Although the show made some insight into his motivations and goals with the "I'm not going to fight them, I'm going to fuck them" and "chaos isn't a pit, chaos is a ladder" speeches, he is much simplified in the show. At least to me. I can't remember the exact moments (I think it was in season 4 or 5), but I remember that a few times while watching the show, I thought that they made a complete idiot out of LF and that no one, let alone LF's mastermind, would be ever so stupid to do that. The show LF is just a shadow of the book one.

And LF definitely does not want to change the system and make social reforms to make the smallfolk better. He is a feasting crow, trying to get as much as possible from the defeated ones and so far he is very successful.

 

[Lord Buckethead]

Also, Westeros was having a relative peace before war started, and it was due to LF mostly that such war started.

True. But something tells me that he was only making the war play out earlier than it otherwise would have done anyway. Cerceis relationship with Robert was really bad, and she did have another attempt on Roberts life (At the tournament of the hand, which was before Ned had solved the case.) And would probably have tried again and again - resulting in the throne being passed on to Joffrey, who was a terrible king, as we all know, and Stannis already "knew" that Joff wasn't Roberts son. Westeros under Roberts reign, was a barrel of wildfire just waiting to be ignited, figuratively speaking.

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

I rather root for Varys than LF. LF is worse to kids(Jeyne Poole) than Varys is.

Varys cuts out kids' tongues and enslaves them.  He's no good guy.

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

I wouldn't be so sure about this point. Was somewhere mentioned where little birds go? In AGOT when Arya overheards Varys' conversation with Illyrio, Varys says something like that he uses kids as young as possible so they don't understand the significance of what they are doing although they get killed easier. When the kids grow older and they realize the value of knowledge, I'm not 100% that Varys lets them go...

My humble opinion about book LF and show LF: Book LF have much more depth, he is more complicated and more mysterious and more confusing and it seems that he is up to many things but you can't be sure what things. Although the show made some insight into his motivations and goals with the "I'm not going to fight them, I'm going to fuck them" and "chaos isn't a pit, chaos is a ladder" speeches, he is much simplified in the show. At least to me. I can't remember the exact moments (I think it was in season 4 or 5), but I remember that a few times while watching the show, I thought that they made a complete idiot out of LF and that no one, let alone LF's mastermind, would be ever so stupid to do that. The show LF is just a shadow of the book one.

And LF definitely does not want to change the system and make social reforms to make the smallfolk better. He is a feasting crow, trying to get as much as possible from the defeated ones and so far he is very successful.

 

In the season 2 opener (I think), he openly threatens Cersei by telling her knowledge is power and letting her know that he knows about her and Jaime.  Then Cersei has her guards almost kill him.  I love the show, but that's my most hated scene in it.  Littlefinger would never be so stupid as to threaten Cersei like that.  His game in the books is too appear completely unthreatening.

 

Otherwise I like the show Littlefinger and how the actor portrays him, but he's definitely stupider than he is in the books.

[Winter's Knight]

LF is kind of like the Snape of ASIaF, if you removed every last bit of heroism from Snape and replaced it with resentment.

Yes, he was turned down by Cat, and rejection hurts. And yes he was nearly killed in a duel that amounts to little more than sanctioned murder. But he reacts to this by torturing little girls. 

[Max of the Magic Friends]

Littlefinger is many things. But something that he isn't is some kind of champion of the common people. Littlefinger is not trying to change the system for the betterment of all - he's just trying to grab power by crushing everyone else, and is willing to do anything to make it happen. You remember that he was the one that started the War of Five Kings, yes? The conflict that has collectively ended or ruined the lives of thousands of innocent people? He doesn't do that to try and make a better world, he does it because he wants to screw over the people he thinks look down on him, and somehow that is justification for murder, torture, and turning a little girl into a sex slave. 

Littlefinger might be charming and clever, but really he is just a child behind all of it. What you're watching in this series is him going through an immature temper tantrum because he couldn't get the girl he wanted, and now he sees everyone in the world as just things for him to use and play with and break as he sees fit. He's pure evil, with no middle ground, and he's terrifying because under all of his murderous scheming is a little boy who never grew past his insecurities, and now wants to torture the whole world the make up for it.

[Nerevanin]

In the season 2 opener (I think), he openly threatens Cersei by telling her knowledge is power and letting her know that he knows about her and Jaime.  Then Cersei has her guards almost kill him.  I love the show, but that's my most hated scene in it.  Littlefinger would never be so stupid as to threaten Cersei like that.  His game in the books is too appear completely unthreatening.

 

Otherwise I like the show Littlefinger and how the actor portrays him, but he's definitely stupider than he is in the books.

Yeah, that wasn't a very clever of the show LF and that was like the 5th time he did something like that. For example during the Hand's tourney he made an absolutely clear hint that he knows the truth about Renly's and Loras' relationship. I tried to look up on his TV series bio to remember the scenes I had in mind:

One that absolutely struck me was how LF was interrogated after Lysa's death and he claimed that it was a suicide although it wasn't plausible at all. Then they called Sansa and it was absolutely clear that LF made zero effort to speak with Sansa after he killed Lysa. Really? The master schemer of the story does this? Nobody would ever be so stupid to do this! I also question the cleverness of leaving the never conquerer Vale and go through battlefields in quite a fragile situation, then giving his Sansa to the Boltons and THEN leaving for King's Landing! I know that in the books he acts like he wants to marry Sansa to Harry the Arse but that's a completely different thing considering that LF would always keep his eyes on Sansa.

[Meera of Tarth]

Yeah, that wasn't a very clever of the show LF and that was like the 5th time he did something like that. For example during the Hand's tourney he made an absolutely clear hint that he knows the truth about Renly's and Loras' relationship. I tried to look up on his TV series bio to remember the scenes I had in mind:

One that absolutely struck me was how LF was interrogated after Lysa's death and he claimed that it was a suicide although it wasn't plausible at all. Then they called Sansa and it was absolutely clear that LF made zero effort to speak with Sansa after he killed Lysa. Really? The master schemer of the story does this? Nobody would ever be so stupid to do this! I also question the cleverness of leaving the never conquerer Vale and go through battlefields in quite a fragile situation, then giving his Sansa to the Boltons and THEN leaving for King's Landing! I know that in the books he acts like he wants to marry Sansa to Harry the Arse but that's a completely different thing considering that LF would always keep his eyes on Sansa.

Yes, I remeber it. I t was like if he totally thought that Sansa would never betray him. When I read the books it was better done.

[Nerevanin]

Yes, I remeber it. I t was like if he totally thought that Sansa would never betray him. When I read the books it was better done.

It was more like he thought that they would never ever ever even think of the possibility to interrogate Sansa and not just him when he is such a trustworthy fellow.

[finger]

I'm not sure I agree with your image of HL. Of course he's cruel. He's as cruel as he's been treated.

Have you read any ambition from him? Lands, riches, women? He works only for hate and vengeance, and he does it very cleverly.

The series' LF is a cartoon.

[Meera of Tarth]

It was more like he thought that they would never ever ever even think of the possibility to interrogate Sansa and not just him when he is such a trustworthy fellow.

Good one!