briantw Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 The most infuriating thing is that regardless of whether or not Avery actually did it, the state continuously botched the evidence, regardless of if it was or wasn't legitimate.From allowing officers with definite conflict of interest to be major parts of the search, to botching the DNA evidence, to all the other shady actives (ranging from someone deleting Teresa's voicemails (only the EX had her password), Colburn having obviously found the car before it was 'found', Lenk mysteriously finding the key where it wasn't a day before, Teresa's own DNA being absent on her own key, etc.) really point anyone looking for reasonable doubt a pretty clear direction. But, in the end, those jurors said what was really the story, that there were a few jurors who, from the get go, believed Avery was guilty and browbeat the rest into agreeing.Her brother knew her voicemail password. He says as much during the course of the trial. In fact, he's the only one we know for a certainty accessed her voicemail. Her ex and roommate used her online password to access her phone records. That's different than her voicemail password, although given how easily they figured her online password out they may have figured her voicemail password out too.I think the key piece of evidence was that her roommate (or was it her ex?) gave the camera to that lady he sent into Avery Salvage to look for the SUV. He didn't give a camera to anyone else. Why would he give one to her unless he knew she was going to find something? She also found the car insanely fast, like she was told where to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.H. Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Her brother knew her voicemail password. He says as much during the course of the trial. In fact, he's the only one we know for a certainty accessed her voicemail. Her ex and roommate used her online password to access her phone records. That's different than her voicemail password, although given how easily they figured her online password out they may have figured her voicemail password out too.I think the key piece of evidence was that her roommate (or was it her ex?) gave the camera to that lady he sent into Avery Salvage to look for the SUV. He didn't give a camera to anyone else. Why would he give one to her unless he knew she was going to find something? She also found the car insanely fast, like she was told where to look.Ah, yeah, you're right, the voicemail was the brother, I dismembered.To me, the 'clean' key (how could your car key not have any of your own DNA, but someone else's?), the botched DNA test on the bullet (she contaminated the sample by talking? Really?), and the radio call where Colburn knew the plate number and make well before the vehicle was found were pretty telling that numerous things about the 'evidence' against Avery was at the very least critically mishandled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Bauer 24 Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 So Avery got hosed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.H. Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 I also saw nothing addressing the fact that her bones were found in two different places.Why on earth would he burn the body in his own yard, then bring only a few fragments to another location?Conversely, why would he burn the body in one place, then transport it back and dump it in his own yard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 I still feel so haunted by what happened to Brendan. None of the theory the prosecution presented made sense but they were able to convict anyone because of the way Brendan was coerced into confessing. And then with the DA telling everyone who would listen exactly what was said in those coerced confessions so jury members would come in thinking that this was exactly what happened...it's just so terrible.I've seen a lot of documentaries and read books about false confessions. Economic inequality is a major problem in the criminal justice system, but it seems like investigation and interrogation techniques are also huge contributors to the problems. I wonder if the rage people are feeling for Dassey will serve to spur changes in techniques, especially when it comes to vulnerable populations, like minors, the intellectually disabled, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Bauer 24 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 This Colburn cop is dirty as fuck. Just finished the fifth episode where he called in the RAV4 plate days before it was found. I've never faceplates this much at anything I've seen. This is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mance Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Life no parole....Then again, after being found guilty of the first charge the others didn't really matter.Thanks! I was worried I was going to have to watch the whole series to find out the ending! Turns out, just needed 7 episodes, and some unmarked spoilers in a non spoiler thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 I've changed the title to a spoiler thread now, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 There's an article here about the omissions from the series that seem to implicate Avery and Dassey, I've not looked around to see if it's the best or most thorough. I'm not particularly convinced by it, the first two points were covered in the series which they seem to have forgotten, then there's a few that don't really seem that damning ... wearing a towel, ringing her a lot? I'm not sure. Then the rest is all to do with Dassey's confession, which they seem to think is unfairly portrayed because of some stuff he said to his mother ..... but we already saw him 'admit' the first version to his mother, doing it on a separate occasion with a different story probably weakens their case rather than strengthens it. I think anything that Dassey says to anyone in the whole period is unreliable really.My opinion is still that I have no clue whether he's guilty or not. Weirdly, the more evidence that implicates him just makes it seem all the stranger that they'd fabricate so much, the Manitowoc County police basically ruined the ability for anyone to have a fair opinion on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I've seen a couple of articles like that one, but they all seem to present info as though it's new when it's stuff we definitely saw in the series. For example, we know about Steven burning a cat alive. We know about him pointing a gun at a family member (this was actually presented in a way that the audience would question if this was the beginning of why the Sheriff's department had a vendetta against Avery since the accuser, his cousin, was married to a sheriff). We also know about that phone conversation between Dassey and his mom. We heard testimony about that bullet. I mean, most of that stuff was there in the doc so it's weird that so many articles present it as new evidence that had been left out. I'm still on the fence about Avery, though I think there was likely plenty of reasonable doubt especially with the magically appearing key, the cop who saw the car before it was officially found, and a meticulously dna free alleged crime scene. I think Dassey is probably absolutely innocent because it's cleared his confession was coerced, he was betrayed by his lawyer, and the one statement that is completely consistent is the one he insists is the truth which doesn't include anything about Teresa or a murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 It's only just occurred to me, but assuming the key was planted, and that they wiped it clean and then applied traces of Avery's DNA......could they have wiped off the real killers DNA? There's no way they could have tested it first to make sure there was no one else's on it, so for all they knew they were wiping Avery's DNA off and then reapplying it. I'm assuming that's the only key? That's not just framing one guy, that's destroying evidence. I mean how long would they get if they were actually found guilty of all this? Some very serious crimes here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 The person who wiped the key might not be the same who planted the key in Avery's trailer. Someone also wiped down Teresa's car (there were apparently no fingerprints found) and may well have wiped clean the key and then perhaps left it in the ignition. The cops (and I'm assuming that key was planted by the cops, Kratz even seemed to hand wave that as something that might have happened) might have found the key in the ignition when that one found the car before it was officially found and it was already wiped. They just moved it so as to get Avery connected to it quicker. One also has to wonder whether or not they added Avery's DNA or if Avery's DNA got on it simply from being planted in his room or even if someone else (perhaps the killer) had already planted his DNA after originally wiping the key. I think the reason it's so easy to believe that this was all planted is because of how meticulously clean the alleged crime scene was. SA would have needed to have Dexter level knowledge to manage to not leave behind even single speck of blood anywhere. It's just too unbelievable that he could keep a crime scene that clean but then leave behind his own DNA on a key and the missing car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 If it wasn't Avery who committed this though, and it was the real killer who wiped the key, the cops couldn't have known that, they would have risked the key coming back with three peoples DNA; Avery's, Teresa's, and the killer's. I suppose they could have checked it for prints, realised there were none and assumed it was wiped......but surely wiping prints off something is a whole different class to removing DNA? To not have a single trace of dried sweat in a slight groove after 6 years, I assumed it had been very carefully and professionally cleaned. It's terrifying really, if you accept any part of this, then the cops in question had 8 DAYS to pretty much dress up things how they wanted. Did anyone else find it really messed up that they chose Colborn to walk Brendon out after his conviction? A case that brought into question his involvement, one in which the MC police were explicitly told not to meddle in, and then did.......not one other cop on duty who could have done that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Bauer 24 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 How could the jury find him guilty behind a reasonable doubt with how botched the entire prosecution was? No blood anywhere on top of that and this is just bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astromech Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 There's an article here about the omissions from the series that seem to implicate Avery and Dassey, I've not looked around to see if it's the best or most thorough. I'm not particularly convinced by it, the first two points were covered in the series which they seem to have forgotten, then there's a few that don't really seem that damning ... wearing a towel, ringing her a lot? I'm not sure. Then the rest is all to do with Dassey's confession, which they seem to think is unfairly portrayed because of some stuff he said to his mother ..... but we already saw him 'admit' the first version to his mother, doing it on a separate occasion with a different story probably weakens their case rather than strengthens it. I think anything that Dassey says to anyone in the whole period is unreliable really.My opinion is still that I have no clue whether he's guilty or not. Weirdly, the more evidence that implicates him just makes it seem all the stranger that they'd fabricate so much, the Manitowoc County police basically ruined the ability for anyone to have a fair opinion on this.I just wanted to correct this information to Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department. People have been posting on the Manitowoc Police Department's facebook page and twitter condemning them when it's the sheriff's department that handled this case. Manitowoc Police Department only has jurisdiction in the city of Manitowoc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 If it wasn't Avery who committed this though, and it was the real killer who wiped the key, the cops couldn't have known that, they would have risked the key coming back with three peoples DNA; Avery's, Teresa's, and the killer's. I suppose they could have checked it for prints, realised there were none and assumed it was wiped......but surely wiping prints off something is a whole different class to removing DNA? To not have a single trace of dried sweat in a slight groove after 6 years, I assumed it had been very carefully and professionally cleaned. It's terrifying really, if you accept any part of this, then the cops in question had 8 DAYS to pretty much dress up things how they wanted. Did anyone else find it really messed up that they chose Colborn to walk Brendon out after his conviction? A case that brought into question his involvement, one in which the MC police were explicitly told not to meddle in, and then did.......not one other cop on duty who could have done that?Yes, I meant to mention this, but couldn't remember if it was Avery or Dassey that he walked out. We saw several other cops during the series, it's not fucking Mayberry with only 2 cops. Why on Earth would they choose him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 I just wanted to correct this information to Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department. People have been posting on the Manitowoc Police Department's facebook page and twitter condemning them when it's the sheriff's department that handled this case. Manitowoc Police Department only has jurisdiction in the city of Manitowoc. Ah, understood. I'm from the UK and have just realised I have no idea what a sheriff is, outside of westerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astromech Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Ah, understood. I'm from the UK and have just realised I have no idea what a sheriff is, outside of westerns.Haha, no worries. It wasn't my intention to correct you specifically. I've seen a number of posts online about this case and the Manitowoc Police Department is incorrectly being scrutinized on social medias regarding this case. A sheriff's department is just county law enforcement whereas a police department is city law enforcement. It's just a question of jurisdiction but they are separate law enforcement entities. I live in Wisconsin and am probably more aware of such incidents since local news outlets, which usually have nothing to talk about besides the weather and Green Bay Packers, have been reporting on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Ah, understood. I'm from the UK and have just realised I have no idea what a sheriff is, outside of westerns.Sherriff's are a UK term; evolved from 'shire reeve'. i'll be back in a bit with more useless information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Bauer 24 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 This show is going to be very bad for my blood pressure. I'm already so angry and I'm on episode 2. Just finished Episode 8 and this is the worst screw job i've seen. Seeing the interview with the excused juror was gut wrenching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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