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purple-eyes

Is it possible that Elia helped Rhaegar to elope?

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I was referring to Lyanna's dead family. I think to a sane person, that would take priority over your husband's infidelity for a prophecy baby. Not to mention leaving someone as mentally unstable as Aerys in charge of a war is irresponsible as hell.

stark already died. Price has been paid. Lyanna took a long time to conceive jon based on timeline, Now if rhaegar returned without a baby in her belly, the whole thing is wasted. 

then rhaegar had to do it all over again.

It is certainly better to make this one time thing done at this one time. 

Statk family can not be reborned even rhaegar came back. 

 

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Unless Elia was as unstable as Aerys or as prophecy high as Rhaegar, she'd think it's worth disturbing his honeymoon. Not this big of a deal doesn't equal "let's not bother my dear husband! He has to bang her in peace of mind!"

I already explained. They went this further to carry this baby, if rhaegar gave up and came back, what is the point for whole thing? No baby, and stark died, they gained nothing. 

At least he had to make lyanna pregnant. Then deaths of stark is not wasted. 

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stark already died. Price has been paid. Lyanna took a long time to conceive jon based on timeline, Now if rhaegar returned without a baby in her belly, the whole thing is wasted. 

then rhaegar had to do it all over again.

It is certainly better to make this one time thing done at this one time. 

Statk family can not be reborned even rhaegar came back. 

 

Well, Rhaegar might want to prevent more of Lyanna's relatives from dying. You know, her two brothers who are fugitives and rebels?

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I still don't see why she won't say she isn't happy. Rhaegar isn't some kind of monster. Why won't she express her concerns and instead turns herself into someone who can be happily ignored beforehand?

Your rape comparison isn't quite accurate. It's more like a woman who sees a car nearby, a car with the engine started. Sure, she might not escape the rapist but she doesn't even try. Instead, she meekly hands the condom.

rhaegar is singleminded and devoted himself to prophecy since a little boy. 

Elia can not change him. He is unstoppable on this topic. And he is boss. A clever wife would know this.  

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rhaegar is singleminded and devoted himself to prophecy since a little boy. 

Elia can not change him. He is unstoppable on this topic. And he is boss. A clever wife would know this.  

Is he unstoppable? In your theory, Elia doesn't even test this. And if he's indeed unstoppable, she loses nothing by at least trying.And letting him know that she's hurt. Humiliated. Endangered. Along with the children. Not feeding his obsession further. If they had a good relationship - which again, I am not sure at all was the case. I am supposed to trust Selmy's expert knowledge? Thanks but no thanks - she won't be scared to speak her own mind. You present her as someone who was so subservient that she was scared of Rhaegar's shadow - and call this a good relationship?

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Well, Rhaegar might want to prevent more of Lyanna's relatives from dying. You know, her two brothers who are fugitives and rebels?

did rhaegar try to contact or negotiate for Ned stark after he came back? 

No , he took 40000 men to fight with Ned and may possibly kill him unless he gave an order that nobody should injure Ned stark. (Which is impossible for rhaegar to do, this will sway his army) 

rhaegar is ready to see Ned killed. I do not know what lyanna is thinking on this issue. Usually she should try to stop rhaegar from fighting with Ned. But it did not work obviously. Since she loved rhaegar, maybe she is content to hear that rhaegar would try to spare Ned. (Which is a lie) 

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Is he unstoppable? In your theory, Elia doesn't even test this. And if he's indeed unstoppable, she loses nothing by at least trying.And letting him know that she's hurt. Humiliated. Endangered. Along with the children. Not feeding his obsession further. If they had a good relationship - which again, I am not sure at all was the case. I am supposed to trust Selmy's expert knowledge? Thanks but no thanks - she won't be scared to speak her own mind. You present her as someone who was so subservient that she was scared of Rhaegar's shadow - and call this a good relationship?

what else can she do? 

Cry? Scream? Complain? Force him to give up? These are useless. Only push rhaegar further from her and make him dislike her and by extension her children. And favor lyanna and her child more. And this is dangerous. 

The wise thing is to obey. And try to help him to finish this as soon as possible. Make him know elia is his supporter. Elia's future is under rhaegar's control. 

You do not want to bend your boss's will if he wants to do something really bad. 

 

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rhaegar is ready to see Ned killed. I do not know what lyanna is thinking on this issue. Usually she should try to stop rhaegar from fighting with Ned. But it did not work obviously. Since she loved rhaegar, maybe she is content to hear that rhaegar would try to spare Ned. (Which is a lie) 

Unless she was extremely stupid, she should have known that Rhaegar's promise wasn't worth anything. What, would he say to all the men in his army, "Please, don't kill Ned Stark in the battle" and expect that everyone would simply let Ned kill them? I can't see how Lyanna could be content with such a promise. Well, she died romantically holding what is likely to be Rhaegar's roses, so Rhaegar might have been the only thing that mattered to her.

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Unless she was extremely stupid, she should have known that Rhaegar's promise wasn't worth anything. What, would he say to all the men in his army, "Please, don't kill Ned Stark in the battle" and expect that everyone would simply let Ned kill them? I can't see how Lyanna could be content with such a promise. Well, she died romantically holding what is likely to be Rhaegar's roses, so Rhaegar might have been the only thing that mattered to her.

exactly. But there is one situation here, rhaegar can possibly make sure that she is completely blocked from all information for two years, so she does not know the deaths of her family and the fighting between him and Ned (until shortly before Ned came). 

rhaegar can lie and say he only needs to go back to KL to visit his two children, for example. 

So lyanna would not have any idea Ned is in danger. 

 

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what else can she do? 

Cry? Scream? Complain? Force him to give up? These are useless. Only push rhaegar further from her and make him dislike her and by extension her children. And favor lyanna and her child more. And this is dangerous. 

The wise thing is to obey. And try to help him to finish this as soon as possible. Make him know elia is his supporter. Elia's future is under rhaegar's control. 

You do not want to bend your boss's will if he wants to do something really bad. 

 

She could slip some poison into his wine. Or flee to her brother in Dorne. Or say to Aerys 'hey, your son is about to do something really f***ing stupid, want to humiliate him and make yourself look good?' Why does she have to be such a doormat? I'll be disappointed if George takes this route.

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She could slip some poison into his wine. Or flee to her brother in Dorne. Or say to Aerys 'hey, your son is about to do something really f***ing stupid, want to humiliate him and make yourself look good?' Why does she have to be such a doormat? I'll be disappointed if George takes this route.

that is father of her children. They are bound together. If rhaegar died, her future will be in trouble too.  Men cheat all the time, very few wife murder them. 

She just gave birth to aegon. She can not escape. And it is unwise to escape at that moment since this will be a sign that she was set aside by rhaegar. 

Aerys is a mad man and mistrusted rhaegar. He may use this to disinherit rhaegar. Elia and aegon will also lose everything. It is not ok to check with aerys. 

So, final solution, make sure rhaegar finish this and move on. 

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that is father of her children. They are bound together. If rhaegar died, her future will be in trouble too.  Men cheat all the time, very few wife murder them. 

She just gave birth to aegon. She can not escape. And it is unwise to escape at that moment since this will be a sign that she was set aside by rhaegar. 

Aerys is a mad man and mistrusted rhaegar. He may use this to disinherit rhaegar. Elia and aegon will also lose everything. It is not ok to check with aerys. 

So, final solution, make sure rhaegar finish this and move on. 

But this 'solution' involves a very powerful woman, politically speaking, giving birth to a child that, bastard or not, may one day threaten Elia's own. It's idiotic. Not to mention that the plan is apparently to disappear for however long it takes to definitely knock up Lyanna and leave any fallout in the hands of an insane person. Maybe Elia could have said 'hey Rhaegar, your dad is a nutjob. Leaving him to deal with the problems you are going to cause is maybe not the best idea.'

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But this 'solution' involves a very powerful woman, politically speaking, giving birth to a child that, bastard or not, may one day threaten Elia's own. It's idiotic. Not to mention that the plan is apparently to disappear for however long it takes to definitely knock up Lyanna and leave any fallout in the hands of an insane person. Maybe Elia could have said 'hey Rhaegar, your dad is a nutjob. Leaving him to deal with the problems you are going to cause is maybe not the best idea.'

yeah, but it is a waste of time to argue with person like rhaegar who could totally change his life style when he was like 10 due to an old book. 

 

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In some GRRM interviews he drills into his fans' minds that the ToJ was in Dorne, and that Ashara was a lady-in-waiting of Elia. I thought this just means that maybe Ashara had a "major" hand in the happenings at the ToJ, but now that you mention it maybe it was Elia GRRM was referring to.

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what else can she do? 

Cry? Scream? Complain? Force him to give up? These are useless. Only push rhaegar further from her and make him dislike her and by extension her children. And favor lyanna and her child more. And this is dangerous. 

The wise thing is to obey. And try to help him to finish this as soon as possible. Make him know elia is his supporter. Elia's future is under rhaegar's control. 

You do not want to bend your boss's will if he wants to do something really bad. 

 

Anything but be the good little doormat who only smiles sweetly at her husband. She can't spend her whole life in fear of displeasing Rhaegar which you seem to be suggesting. She could have even warned the Starks about his intentions.

The wise thing is to do anything in her power to prevent the "elopement". It would be worth it if Rhaegar distanced himself from her. Anything was better than doing her best to attract humiliation to herself and possible disinheritance to her kids for Lyanna's. An appeal to Rhaegar's reasoning and even raging emotions might not have changed his mind but they would not have changed her position for the worse. How many relationships fall apart over a few quarrels, no matter how major the problems discusses might be? And if Elia was such a little mouse, she'd better head off straight for Dorne with the kids in tow since she's just handed Rhaegar and Lyanna the control over their very lives.

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Anything but be the good little doormat who only smiles sweetly at her husband. She can't spend her whole life in fear of displeasing Rhaegar which you seem to be suggesting. She could have even warned the Starks about his intentions.

The wise thing is to do anything in her power to prevent the "elopement". It would be worth it if Rhaegar distanced himself from her. Anything was better than doing her best to attract humiliation to herself and possible disinheritance to her kids for Lyanna's. An appeal to Rhaegar's reasoning and even raging emotions might not have changed his mind but they would not have changed her position for the worse. How many relationships fall apart over a few quarrels, no matter how major the problems discusses might be? And if Elia was such a little mouse, she'd better head off straight for Dorne with the kids in tow since she's just handed Rhaegar and Lyanna the control over their very lives.

even cersei played as little mouse for a while. Elia only married rhaegar a couple of years and busy in having children, she was not a powerful woman in the court and aegon is too young. If I were her, I would obey my lord husband now, make sure I had my position safe, some day, when I developed my court power like Mariah martell, and aegon was installed properly as heir, that will be the doom of lyanna,( if she has not been disliked by rhaegar like Henry viii did to anne boylen later. )

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I do not think she support polygamy. She would only likely agree to let him have a mistress and bastard. 

In fact, the issue of polygamy is that it will give rhaegar a lot of trouble for his action and ruling. From society and faith. People do not like this and the political influence will be really bad. Not just about elia's feeling. 

Worked ok for Aegon. He did have dragons though. Maybe Rhaegar thought his destiny lead to dragons since he believed his offspring would be TPTWP. 

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It's not outside the realm of possibility that Elia agreed to the whole arrangement. If she was honest with herself, one more kid might have been too dangerous, and if she bought into the prophecy, then one more child was necessary. Of course they were one generation off, but we'll see how it plays out. This is one question that will never be answered.

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Worked ok for Aegon. He did have dragons though. Maybe Rhaegar thought his destiny lead to dragons since he believed his offspring would be TPTWP. 

While I do think that polygamy was still an option, Rhaegar must have understood that it would have lead to a lot of problems (leaving him to decide whether it would be worth all the trouble).

Aegon did not need to face such problems. He married his own sisters, it's kind of difficult to offend a family that way, especially since Aegon might have already been the head of the family at the time of the marriages. Rhaegar, on the other hand, would offend House Martell and Dorne, for insulting Elia, as well as House Stark, who had betrothal arrangements, and who had not agreed to such an arrangement with Rhaegar.

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While I do think that polygamy was still an option, Rhaegar must have understood that it would have lead to a lot of problems (leaving him to decide whether it would be worth all the trouble).

Aegon did not need to face such problems. He married his own sisters, it's kind of difficult to offend a family that way, especially since Aegon might have already been the head of the family at the time of the marriages. Rhaegar, on the other hand, would offend House Martell and Dorne, for insulting Elia, as well as House Stark, who had betrothal arrangements, and who had not agreed to such an arrangement with Rhaegar.

I think the problem would have been with House Stark.  Dorne has a culture that is used to this sort of thing through paramours.  Plus Aegon was the first born, heir to the throne and half Dornish.  Not a bad consolation for a giving up a daughter to a multiple marriage.   

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