Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

purple-eyes

Is it possible that Elia helped Rhaegar to elope?

Recommended Posts

I think the problem would have been with House Stark.  Dorne has a culture that is used to this sort of thing through paramours.  Plus Aegon was the first born, heir to the throne and half Dornish.  Not a bad consolation for a giving up a daughter to a multiple marriage.   

There definitly would have been a problem with House Stark. But don't underestimate House Martell. That a culture is more open about keeping a paramour, doesn't mean that they will accept Rhaegar taking a mistress, or a second wife. It would always be an insult to Elia, and thus to House Martell. Elia was of higher birth than Lyanna, the second-most important woman in the realm. She nearly died trying to give Rhaegar an heir. And yet, Rhaegar would show, again, favor for a northern girl over Elia. That would endanger the claims of Elia's children if it was a polygamous marriage, but it would be equally dangerous for Aegon's claim if Lyanna was simply a paramour. Just look at Targaryen history.The fact that Daemon Blackfyre was a bastard (and the younger sibling) did not stop him from rebelling. Nor did the fact that Rhaenyra Targaryen was confirmed to be the King's heir, by having all the lords of the realm swear her fealthy, stop Rhaenyra's younger brother from usurping her crown.

If Rhaegar were to have children by any other woman than Elia, Aegon's claim could potentially be in danger. If not whilst Rhaegar still lived, than after he had died. Because fact remains that Rhaegar would have shown preference towards Lyanna, chosing her himself, where his marriage to Elia had been arranged.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree about Dornish people being different and being okay with their spouse having a paramour. And it wasn't just married men. Even married Dornish women had their own paramours too. So it is possible that Elia was in all everything. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/6/2016 at 10:48 AM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

There definitly would have been a problem with House Stark. But don't underestimate House Martell. That a culture is more open about keeping a paramour, doesn't mean that they will accept Rhaegar taking a mistress, or a second wife. It would always be an insult to Elia, and thus to House Martell. Elia was of higher birth than Lyanna, the second-most important woman in the realm. She nearly died trying to give Rhaegar an heir. And yet, Rhaegar would show, again, favor for a northern girl over Elia. That would endanger the claims of Elia's children if it was a polygamous marriage, but it would be equally dangerous for Aegon's claim if Lyanna was simply a paramour. Just look at Targaryen history.The fact that Daemon Blackfyre was a bastard (and the younger sibling) did not stop him from rebelling. Nor did the fact that Rhaenyra Targaryen was confirmed to be the King's heir, by having all the lords of the realm swear her fealthy, stop Rhaenyra's younger brother from usurping her crown.

If Rhaegar were to have children by any other woman than Elia, Aegon's claim could potentially be in danger. If not whilst Rhaegar still lived, than after he had died. Because fact remains that Rhaegar would have shown preference towards Lyanna, chosing her himself, where his marriage to Elia had been arranged.

I think Elia and Lyanna were of the same level of birth, just because Martells call themselves "Princes" that doesn't mean they are of higher birth than Starks who were Kings for thousands of years. In fact, it could be argued that Starks are of Higher Birth than any Martell prince.

Both Elia and Lyanna are 2nd children too.

But yes, Martells would be terribly insulted by Rhaegar taking second wife. But Elia should be fine with Rhaegar having a paramour as long as its sealed that Aegon takes precedence over any child of Lyanna's

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Elia had to know about what was going on with Rheagar and Lyanna. 

 

Remember in Dany's vision she asked Rheagar if he was going to make a song about Aegon? he replied that no he was not. It was elia's way of asking if he was headed out alone as when he went to summerhall to compose music he went alone.

By telling her no Elia had to know that something greater was at play.

 

I don't think that Rheagar was a prophecy obssesed man. I think his plans were to well layed out for that to be the case. 

Look at the Tourney even to this day there are those that wonder if Rheagar was behind the whole thing. The lords on Aerys council couldnt even pen anything on him and they were actively trying to disinherit him from the throne. The minister of finance or master of coin would have an excellent idea of Rheagar's finances and yet he couldn't prove that Rheagar was behind the Touney.

Then there is the face that the crown of flowers that was present to Lyanna was made of Blue Roses her favorite flower.  We also learn that Aemon and Rheagar were correspondants, it's very likely that Aemon was used to gather information about the Starks long before the Tourney. Which makes sense as I am of the mind that the tourney was a means to gather all the lords of the eventual RR together and turn them away from their supposed goals. 

Give the starks a queen, strip Robert of his possible claim to the throne(i.e. all the drinking contest between the lord of skull and kisses and Robert) Making Robert not look like that most knightly when he makes a promise to unmask the knight of the laughing tree and it's the dragon prince that goes out and looks for him. 

There are little things like Lyanna being left at either Harrenhal or castle Darry both of which are known Targ supporters than having her stay with the Tullys her future in laws if there wasn't another plot underfoot? That would make the most sense if the Starks were still opposed to the Targs.

 

Then off course there isthe place that they left Lyanna. Which is in the Princes pass way which was governed by house Fowler and the closes castle is that of manwoody. Doran during the only dornish pov in Dance points out that he doesn't trust how close Nymeria and the fowler twins are. Could it be because the Twins have infomation of a third dragon that could put a wrench in the princes plans?

I am in agreement that Rheagar would have to have an idea of the various political ties in Dorne and the best place to get hat info would be from Elia with Arthur being back up with the info.

 

With Lyanna being placed in Dorne, Doran would have to know that she was there along with 2 white knight to begin with. If he didn't then he is know prince and deserves any and everything that comes his way

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/31/2015 at 9:33 AM, WSmith84 said:

Dornish women might be more understanding of paramours, but I guarantee that Dornish Ladies like being humiliated publicly just as much as anybody i.e. not at all. And I don't care how understanding you are about your husbands infidelities, no lady in a feudal system wants her husband to have legitimate children that might threaten their own, especially not from a woman with such powerful political ties. So no, I don't think she was cool with it. I mean, if Rhaegar needed a third child, why did Lyanna Stark have to be the baby machine? Wouldn't any peasant girl do? Or some low-level noble, like a Westerling or something? Lyanna was probably the worst choice in terms of 'how politically poor can I make this decision?'

This theory also requires Elia to be stupid enough to think that this plan is a good idea in the first place. Now, I can see how maybe two people in love, or lust, might allow their feelings to overrule their good sense, but someone intelligent and impartial should have seen that this was a bad idea.

And why on Earth would Elia tell Rhaegar, after the deaths of Rickard and Brandon, that everything was 'under control'? His bit-on-the-side's brother and father were murdered by his father, and war was breaking out! What's 'under control' about that?

actually Lyanna Stark was the best option to be that baby making machine that he could find.

Lyanna Stark through various intermarriage and such might have a drop or two of dragon blood( Royces, Blackwood and such) ever Arryan has a drop of dragon blood and every dragon has a drop of falcon blood. It would make sense that the Royces that have intermarried with the starks might have intermarried with the Arryan. Then there are the Blackwoods there was a bastard that was born of Alys Rivers and Aemond Targ. For all we know their descendant interwed back into the main line and then married into the Starks family tree. But besides ifs and maybe's 

 

There was a really big and powerful threat to the realm it was those intermarriage of the LPs of the Stormlands, Westernlands, North, Vale and Redwynes and Tullys. Between these families you have an heir to the throne, gold(and a desire for revenge), military might, political know how, ships and a central stronghold. Yeah those marriage could greatly influence the power balance in the realm. 

Remove the marriage between Lyanna and Robert the starks have no claim to the throne, remove Jamie from the picture the tullys don't have a powerful neighbor to help them either the west or north. But the marriage between Lyanna and Robert would be the lynch pin that would give them a figurehead.

 

So taking or removing Lyanna was the smartest choice Rheagar had at his disposal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, the conquering bastard 25 said:

actually Lyanna Stark was the best option to be that baby making machine that he could find.

Lyanna Stark through various intermarriage and such might have a drop or two of dragon blood( Royces, Blackwood and such) ever Arryan has a drop of dragon blood and every dragon has a drop of falcon blood. It would make sense that the Royces that have intermarried with the starks might have intermarried with the Arryan. Then there are the Blackwoods there was a bastard that was born of Alys Rivers and Aemond Targ. For all we know their descendant interwed back into the main line and then married into the Starks family tree. But besides ifs and maybe's 

 

There was a really big and powerful threat to the realm it was those intermarriage of the LPs of the Stormlands, Westernlands, North, Vale and Redwynes and Tullys. Between these families you have an heir to the throne, gold(and a desire for revenge), military might, political know how, ships and a central stronghold. Yeah those marriage could greatly influence the power balance in the realm. 

Remove the marriage between Lyanna and Robert the starks have no claim to the throne, remove Jamie from the picture the tullys don't have a powerful neighbor to help them either the west or north. But the marriage between Lyanna and Robert would be the lynch pin that would give them a figurehead.

 

So taking or removing Lyanna was the smartest choice Rheagar had at his disposal

Except Rhaegar marrying Lyanna pisses off about the LPs in Westeros. Rickard Stark now looks like a man who can't control his own daughter, and the Stark name is soiled with a broken marriage pact. Brandon Stark was already furious with Rhaegar; now he is going to be incensed. Robert is going to hate Rhaegar's guts and he may well fall out with his BFF Ned over this marriage (Ned wouldn't let Robert slander Lyanna and Robert is almost certainly too prideful not too), making Jon Arryn unhappy. The Martells are going to be furious with Rhaegar, as Elia's children now have a very clear, very dangerous threat: Lyanna's children.

And that's the main point, isn't it? Rhaegar's setting up a very bloody civil war by making Lyanna his wife. With Elia's children on one side and Lyanna's on the other, lines will be drawn and sides taken. It wouldn't surprise me if a petty Robert sided with Aegon as a way of getting back at Rhaegar and Lyanna. Brandon would probably support Lyanna's kid, making Rhaegar pay his debt to the Starks, so to speak. The Tyrells would probably be more inclined to side with Lyanna's kid, but could go either way. Tywin would side with whomever suited his interests, Jon Arryn might well stay out of it and Hoster would probably side with Brandon's choice. Great. Did Rhaegar not read history books? The Dance of the Dragons, the Blackfyre Rebellions... Rhaegar's children might have fought the bloodiest war in Westerosi history.

Now, if Rhaegar wanted to break the large alliance that was being built, having Lyanna marry someone else is a good idea: as long as it's not him (or someone associated with the Targs) that does it. If Lyanna had married some Essosi prince, or Sealord or something, great. Alliance broken, not the Targaryen's fault and no war (or small chance, anyway). Rhaegar doing it himself makes everyone angry at him, sets up a civil war between his children, angers the Faith and turns his own allies (Dorne) against him. Dumb, dumb idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/31/2015 at 9:33 AM, WSmith84 said:

 

 

 

That is a major misconception. Rheagar and Lyanna running away together was not the spark that light the war. Aerys killing Brandon and Rickard Stark was.

If the Starks didn't have some knowlegde of the events that were about to take place between Rheagar and Lyanna then after the tourney why was she left at either Harrenhal or Castle Darry? Both houses have a long history of being supporters of the Targ regime. Oswell Whent was one of those KG that was at the tower of Joy when Ned showed up. House Darry has had 7 members of its family serve in the KIngsguard.

 

IF the Starks and the crown prince weren't at the very least making some plans and Rickard was going to continue with his southron ambitions then after the tourney why not take her back up north or leave her with her future in laws the Tullys? Something is rotten in the state of Westeros. 

Have you learned nothing about the show of power and what is done in public and what is done in private are two very different things. How many examples do you need me to sight where what is done in public can be later used as a pretext for something that can be used later. Tyrion and him noticing how Tywin used his uncle in coucil meetings, Tyrion and Joffery at the wedding he thinks that he can't let things get any uglier not with half the realm in attendence. Jamie and Tommen after the funeral procession when Tommen gets sick, Jamie notes that it wouldn't be wise to allow the realm to witness the king at a weak moment. 

My point being the realm would have already know how Brandon reacted to the crowning, to him finding out about Cat and littlefinger and the duel. The realm knows that he's hot headed and more like to draw his blade than think with his head. IT actually works well if one was going for misdirection. Make the realm and those close to Robert think that Lyanna had been kidnapped and not left on her own accord. Stark can't seemingly go against the crowned prince, the future king. Rickard still gets what he wishes his daughter as queen. THis allows Robert to save face, while Tywin can only stew and vent but without support from the North, Vale and Trident he would only have the allied power of the rock, stormslands and maybe Dorne. But as Aegon is still the next crown I don't see either Elia's mother or Doran raising spears. So it would have been the Rock and Stormsend. But...with Rheagar being the new King what one king does another can undo well, he can give Tywin something that will make swallowing the sour(cersie nevering being queen) alittle bit sweeter releasing Jamie from his KG vows.

 

Who was he possibly going to have her marry that wasn't a threat? Unless it was someone inside of the North? Yet that still would cause problems as Rickard had ambitions for his children to wed into the South. Rheagar was trying to bust up an alliance no form another one. One in which he couldn't control. The Daynes and Martells both have blood of the dragon. The Yronwoods has aspirations upon unseating the Martells for control of Dorne. So giving them the military might of house Stark is doing your first wifes house no good. Wedding her to anyone in the Reach seeing as the house of the Reach this generation and the past generation are all interwed would be putting 100,000 swords in the hands of the Starks. No the only thing that could have been done was either have her enter into an convent which would have pissed Rickard off as that takes a valuble marriage piece off the table and crushs his dreams of seeing his family on the throne or in the royal family. OR wed the wench himself. Sry i just don't see how else one can slice this piece of pie for a different outcome.

NO Rheagars whole point of stopping a civil war that his father's action at Duskendale had allowed to fester. His fathers actions towards his lords and ladies of the court. HIs fathers craziness that had seeped into the minds of the realms and made the members of the most powerful families think that they had to take action against him. 

 

Rheagar had been playing puppet master for quite sometime even before the events of Harrenhal. From getting Jamie named to the KG, gathering info about the ruling house of the north via Aemon, covering his tracks with the Tourney of Harrenhal. Having to duck and dogde those of his fathers council that would have disinherited him and his family and placed Viserys on the throne as a puppet king with a regency council. Have you not read the World book? Rheagar had a lot on his plate. He had to figure out away to get the realm on his side to remove his father, stop a rebellion from starting and a prophecy to forefill. 

While the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I don't think that Rheagar foresaw all the crazy that his father would unleash when there wasn't someone there to keep in check. I think that he was going to follow in his grandfather's footsteps and come to the realm with Lyanna pregnat and wed so there was one that could stop them or remove her from him.

 I also get the impression that Harrenhal was Rheagars first public step in neutralizing his father. Having Jamie knight and then placed in the Kingsguard was him pulling string behind the scene. Cersies involvement in the whole arrangement as always struck me as weird. Yet if one were to think about it the mystery is quite simple. Rhealla was the force behind that little subplot. Tywin was about to be replaced and possibly excuted because of the rift between Aerys and himself in the whole duskendale mess. Cersei had a prophecy that she was going to be queen and from her remembering of the time made it seem as though anyone with the right eyes could have seen that she was madly in love with the silver prince. Well to please her future mother in law she pushed Jamie into being named to the KG.

By removing Jamie and making him take the white he can't wed Lysa Tully. That's one piece of the marriage alliance out of the way. The Blackfish removed himself by refusing to wed and that would have just left Brandon and Lyanna. By wedding and bedding Lyanna himself the only piece of the wedding alliences that was left was Brandon to Cat. Yet like Petyr Belish is always reminding Sansa his hands are clean. No one could point the finger at Rheagar or the royal family for having ruined those marriages.

IT's also passing strange that Rheagar would still kidnap or run away with Lyanna mere days after the birth of his son and promised prince unless he had too. Meaning that if he bulked from what he had set in motion would still lead to the results of civil war with the very families.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, the conquering bastard 25 said:

 

 

That is a major misconception. Rheagar and Lyanna running away together was not the spark that light the war. Aerys killing Brandon and Rickard Stark was.

I never implied it was.

If the Starks didn't have some knowlegde of the events that were about to take place between Rheagar and Lyanna then after the tourney why was she left at either Harrenhal or Castle Darry? Both houses have a long history of being supporters of the Targ regime. Oswell Whent was one of those KG that was at the tower of Joy when Ned showed up. House Darry has had 7 members of its family serve in the KIngsguard.

We don't know exactly where Lyanna was post-Harrenhal. We have zero evidence that the Starks were supporting Lyanna and Rhaegar's plans (if they made plans).

IF the Starks and the crown prince weren't at the very least making some plans and Rickard was going to continue with his southron ambitions then after the tourney why not take her back up north or leave her with her future in laws the Tullys? Something is rotten in the state of Westeros. 

We don't know where she was. Perhaps Lyanna was staying south in preparation for Brandon's wedding. We can't just create reasons we have no evidence for.

Have you learned nothing about the show of power and what is done in public and what is done in private are two very different things. How many examples do you need me to sight where what is done in public can be later used as a pretext for something that can be used later. Tyrion and him noticing how Tywin used his uncle in coucil meetings, Tyrion and Joffery at the wedding he thinks that he can't let things get any uglier not with half the realm in attendence. Jamie and Tommen after the funeral procession when Tommen gets sick, Jamie notes that it wouldn't be wise to allow the realm to witness the king at a weak moment. 

I'm not sure what this is in reference to, sorry.

My point being the realm would have already know how Brandon reacted to the crowning, to him finding out about Cat and littlefinger and the duel. The realm knows that he's hot headed and more like to draw his blade than think with his head. IT actually works well if one was going for misdirection. Make the realm and those close to Robert think that Lyanna had been kidnapped and not left on her own accord. Stark can't seemingly go against the crowned prince, the future king.

Actually, he can. And there is strong recent history of Targaryens breaking betrothals ending in rebellion (i.e. the Laughing Storm, who, incidentally, had far less support than Rickard did.

Rickard still gets what he wishes his daughter as queen.

Second Queen. With his grandchildren inheriting nothing. So he loses out on his grandchildren inheriting the Stormlands and gets nothing in return, unless Rhaegar promised to disinherit his other children. Or if Rickard had planned to remove them in the future.

THis allows Robert to save face,

How, exactly? He's still had his bride taken from him. Either she chose someone else ahead of him, or someone else took her from him. It's embarrassing either way, and Robert will be pissed.

while Tywin can only stew and vent but without support from the North, Vale and Trident he would only have the allied power of the rock, stormslands and maybe Dorne. But as Aegon is still the next crown I don't see either Elia's mother or Doran raising spears. So it would have been the Rock and Stormsend. But...with Rheagar being the new King what one king does another can undo well, he can give Tywin something that will make swallowing the sour(cersie nevering being queen) alittle bit sweeter releasing Jamie from his KG vows.

Dorne aren't going to raise spears. But they weren't happy with Rhaegar running off with Lyanna, hence their rather lukewarm support during the rebellion. They'd be even more furious if they knew Rhaegar had married her and was putting Elia's children in danger.

Who was he possibly going to have her marry that wasn't a threat? Unless it was someone inside of the North?

It isn't actually Rhaegar's job to find Lyanna a bride. And he technically has no right to interfere with Lord Stark's marriage plans. But if he wants to find someone who won't be a threat, marry her to some Essosi noble or a house that is already on his side (like a Dornish house).

Yet that still would cause problems as Rickard had ambitions for his children to wed into the South.

Suddenly Rhaegar cares what Rickard thinks? Rickard isn't going to be happy whatever Rhaegar does, unless Rhaegar sets aside Elia, disinherits his children and takes Lyanna as a new bride. Plus he'd have to compensate for the embarrassment caused to House Stark.

Rheagar was trying to bust up an alliance no form another one. One in which he couldn't control. The Daynes and Martells both have blood of the dragon. The Yronwoods has aspirations upon unseating the Martells for control of Dorne. So giving them the military might of house Stark is doing your first wifes house no good.

So marry her to a minor house. Not that the Starks can offer much military support in the event of a Dornish civil war anyway. And of course, Rhaegar has no right to marry Lyanna to someone.

Wedding her to anyone in the Reach seeing as the house of the Reach this generation and the past generation are all interwed would be putting 100,000 swords in the hands of the Starks. No the only thing that could have been done was either have her enter into an convent which would have pissed Rickard off as that takes a valuble marriage piece off the table and crushs his dreams of seeing his family on the throne or in the royal family. OR wed the wench himself. Sry i just don't see how else one can slice this piece of pie for a different outcome.

He could not focus on building his own alliances to strengthen the Crown's position. Release Jaime from his KG vows, make marriage alliances with Reach houses, try and set up a marriage between Aegon and one of the Starks, Arryns, Tullys etc. Pissing off half your kingdom and leaving the other half bewildered is probably not the way to avoid rebellion.

NO Rheagars whole point of stopping a civil war that his father's action at Duskendale had allowed to fester. His fathers actions towards his lords and ladies of the court. HIs fathers craziness that had seeped into the minds of the realms and made the members of the most powerful families think that they had to take action against him. 

And having legitimate children from both Elia Martell and Lyanna Stark is creatingthe recipe for a civil war so bloody it would make the WOT5K look tame. Two legitimate Targaryens with links to the Great Houses.

Rheagar had been playing puppet master for quite sometime even before the events of Harrenhal. From getting Jamie named to the KG, gathering info about the ruling house of the north via Aemon, covering his tracks with the Tourney of Harrenhal.

Cersei did that. What evidence do you have that Rhaegar had anything to do with it?

Having to duck and dogde those of his fathers council that would have disinherited him and his family and placed Viserys on the throne as a puppet king with a regency council. Have you not read the World book? Rheagar had a lot on his plate. He had to figure out away to get the realm on his side to remove his father, stop a rebellion from starting and a prophecy to forefill. 

And he did a great job of avoiding rebellion.

While the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I don't think that Rheagar foresaw all the crazy that his father would unleash when there wasn't someone there to keep in check. I think that he was going to follow in his grandfather's footsteps and come to the realm with Lyanna pregnat and wed so there was one that could stop them or remove her from him.

Anyone who would trust someone as clearly insane as Aerys to not do something insane in the politically volatile situation Rhaegar was creating is a fool. Expecting Aerys to hold it together when the man was clearly not fit enough to organise and orgy in a brothel is ridiculous. Rhaegar must have expected that maybe at least one of Brandon, Oberyn or Robert might not have taken the news very well. Then again he did leave his wife and children with Aerys when he left for the Trident, so he clearly wasn't all that clever.

 I also get the impression that Harrenhal was Rheagars first public step in neutralizing his father. Having Jamie knight and then placed in the Kingsguard was him pulling string behind the scene.

Evidence for Rhaegar's involvement?

Cersies involvement in the whole arrangement as always struck me as weird. Yet if one were to think about it the mystery is quite simple. Rhealla was the force behind that little subplot. Tywin was about to be replaced and possibly excuted because of the rift between Aerys and himself in the whole duskendale mess. Cersei had a prophecy that she was going to be queen and from her remembering of the time made it seem as though anyone with the right eyes could have seen that she was madly in love with the silver prince. Well to please her future mother in law she pushed Jamie into being named to the KG.

Again, evidence?

By removing Jamie and making him take the white he can't wed Lysa Tully. That's one piece of the marriage alliance out of the way. The Blackfish removed himself by refusing to wed and that would have just left Brandon and Lyanna. By wedding and bedding Lyanna himself the only piece of the wedding alliences that was left was Brandon to Cat. Yet like Petyr Belish is always reminding Sansa his hands are clean. No one could point the finger at Rheagar or the royal family for having ruined those marriages.

Except everyone can point to Rhaegar for ruining the Lyanna-Robert marriage. Hs hands couldn't appear dirtier. And all the evidence we have points to Aerys naming Jaime to the KG to spite Tywin.

IT's also passing strange that Rheagar would still kidnap or run away with Lyanna mere days after the birth of his son and promised prince unless he had too. Meaning that if he bulked from what he had set in motion would still lead to the results of civil war with the very families.

Yes, I'm sure Rhaegar was just closing his eyes and thinking of Westeros when he shagged Lyanna. :rolleyes:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i believe Rhaegars ultimate plane was to bring dragons back and the promised hero might have played a role in that

so he was doing everything or everything he did in his life was to bring the promised hero into the world and possibly dragons aswell

and DORNE would never support the idea of targaryens having dragons again, they might want them for themselves but not for targaryens....

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What choice did Elia have? Rheagar, in Dany's vision, explained to Elia that it had to be so. He was being appologetic and it seems that he had told her of his learning, his dreams, his future plans which probably included the "organized" and legitimate removal of his own father. I think she knew and really could do nothing about it or would not do anything to stop it. I have no doubt that she was confirmed that her two children would wed one another and the throne pass to them down the line and that Lyanna or whomever would get nothing. Rheagar was convinced that he needed a third child. Not much in it for lyanna or whomever this "lucky" girl would be if we suspect the time of this vision was before he "selected" Lyanna Stark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×