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Winds update (not a blog)


TheLightning Lord

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To be fair, I understand the writing process is a difficult one, and inspiration doesn't just come out of thin air. But he did spend A LOT of time doing other things, avoiding having to write the new book. Its clear he doesn't view the new book as a fun thing to be writing and isn't loving it. 

But maybe if he spent less time avoiding doing it, and actually doing it it would be less hard for him.

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It's been inevitable for some time that the show would end long before Dream comes out.  The fact that it may well end before Winds is even released doesn't change all that much - it moves forward the spoiling from season 6 to season 7 or at most 8, a difference of a year or two when we're 5+ years away minimum.  All we really have to hope is that he finishes it at all, because it's entirely possible he doesn't bother.  If he doesn't enjoy writing it (and it certainly seems he doesn't) then at this point he has little personal reason to continue with it.  I just feel sorry for those who are overly engaged in the series.

Chances of avoiding spoilers are next to nil.  Just means I'll have to stop visiting this forum or anything else related to the series come April.  Probably won't succeed anyway 'cause people will post stuff elsewhere, but oh well.  

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To be fair, I understand the writing process is a difficult one, and inspiration doesn't just come out of thin air. But he did spend A LOT of time doing other things, avoiding having to write the new book. Its clear he doesn't view the new book as a fun thing to be writing and isn't loving it. 

But maybe if he spent less time avoiding doing it, and actually doing it it would be less hard for him.

George would not have made it to ADwD or been able to give us the Theon, Mercy(Arya), Barristan, Arrianne, and Alyanne Chapters if  he had been avoiding writing.  

This is not a term paper.  This is a world he's created and loves and wants to shares with us.

 "Oh, ye of little Faith and sense of entitlement and 'I want it now!'"

He is not avoiding writing.  World Creation is the hardest thing a fiction author can do and make believable and entertaining.  GRRM is still world creating. He's creating the Land of Always Winter (most likely to be seen through Bran's eyes) a place only cusory described in GoT  and probably much more we have yet to see as well.  Not to mention all the characters and conflicts that need resolving.  Tolstoy had the advantage of having history to rely on and no one knew Tolkien was writing what we would now call a sequel to "the Hobbit."  

So give the man a break.

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George would not have made it to ADwD or been able to give us the Theon, Mercy(Arya), Barristan, Arrianne, and Alyanne Chapters if  he had been avoiding writing.  

This is not a term paper.  This is a world he's created and loves and wants to shares with us.

 "Oh, ye of little Faith and sense of entitlement and 'I want it now!'"

He is not avoiding writing.  World Creation is the hardest thing a fiction author can do and make believable and entertaining.  GRRM is still world creating, the Land of Always Winter (most likely to be seen through Bran's eyes) is only thinly hinted at in the HBO show, and probably much more as well.  Not to mention all the characters and conflicts that need resolving.  Tolstoy had the advantage of having history to rely on and no one knew Tolkien was writing what we would now call a sequel to "the Hobbit."  

So give the man a break.

The problem is that GRRM already created the world in the first book. It's clearly something that he's good at. That's not the issue. He needed to condense his plot instead of expanding it. Instead he did the opposite and we ended up with the two worst books in the series, AFFC and ADWD. Comparing Tolstoy and Tolkien to a celebrity writer like GRRM is laughable. GRRM can't even be compared to JK Rowling. Also do you really believe GRRM isn't relying on history when he writes these books? That's quite interesting. 

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my thoughts echo gryz here. the series will never live up to it's potential as a modern classic. it's pretty depressing. I think george fucked up his legacy.
 

This is exactly what I'm thinking.

It's unbelievable that nobody has told GRRM what they thought exactly, during the last 5 years. I bet a lot of people have been thinking: "George, if you don't take this seriously, you're gonna mess up your books, your reputation and your legacy. Beyond recognition". George had the opportunity to write the first fantasy series since LotR that people would accept as true literature. That opportunity is gone now. Asoiaf will be "that series that was never properly finished". Forever.

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I'm prepared to give George some slack over the last 2 books. They weren't on the same level as the others and had a lot of issues, but he obviously wanted to do a slow rebuild of the story.

But at the same time you can see how much he struggles with it. The 5 year gap is a symptom of a man who doesn't know what he wants to do with his story and the pressure to get it out and make it good is clearly too much for him. I don't think he'll ever finish actually 

 

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my thoughts echo gryz here. the series will never live up to it's potential as a modern classic. it's pretty depressing. I think george fucked up his legacy.
 

Ruining his legacy by delaying book? What the hell am I reading?:huh:

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The problem is that GRRM already created the world in the first book. It's clearly something that he's good at. That's not the issue. He needed to condense his plot instead of expanding it. Instead he did the opposite and we ended up with the two worst books in the series, AFFC and ADWD. Comparing Tolstoy and Tolkien to a celebrity writer like GRRM is laughable. GRRM can't even be compared to JK Rowling. Also do you really believe GRRM isn't relying on history when he writes these books? That's quite interesting. 

He absolutely did not create the world in the first book.  George makes the world up as he goes along.  Admittedly there's more lore that's been created as time has continued that isn't directly related to what we're shown (D&E and companion books), but D&E is deliberately stylistically different while he's emphasised hugely that most of the other lore stuff is vague and maybe wrong.  

I'll agree that the Tolstoy comparison is a little odd, though if you think he wasn't a celebrity writer himself you're very wrong.  But anyway, different authors have different strengths; none of the authors mentioned has anything other than the most superficial of links to each other.

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you ruined it george!

 

You always will be remembered as the guy who was going to be the american tolkien, but end up being a joke, being his ending and main devolop spoiled by HBOs softcore porn...

 

I cant even imagine what would Tolkien had thought if the peleanor fieds battle was going to be spoiled by a movie, or worst, a tv series

 

Even lucas, let himself ruin his own story before selling it to a company. He completed the journey, told the story he wanted to tell, and even now seams to have some regrets about selling the aftermatch.

(And he did sell it for 4k, thats pretty more than george)

 

But you my little friend were to greedy, and to quick to get greedy

 

And you know what? Thats ok, you are old, and you might wanted to enjoy life. Thats not a sin. But a path that does not end in greatness.

 

Tired of HBO porn, shock value, and all that crap, and George lazyness and declining quality, Im moving my money as a customer to other franchises.

 

Sure, Ill buy the paperback cover of winds, in 2018, and watch an HBO re cap in a boring sunday. But thats all.

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The problem is that GRRM already created the world in the first book. It's clearly something that he's good at. That's not the issue. He needed to condense his plot instead of expanding it. Instead he did the opposite and we ended up with the two worst books in the series, AFFC and ADWD. Comparing Tolstoy and Tolkien to a celebrity writer like GRRM is laughable. GRRM can't even be compared to JK Rowling. Also do you really believe GRRM isn't relying on history when he writes these books? That's quite interesting. 

I think this nails it.  Rowling got world-building exactly right by having it serve the plot rather than vice versa.  And the only reason we care about Tolkien's world-building is because LotR was a magnificent epic.

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so he was sure that he could finish in two months, but now he doesn't know when he can finish. how is that possible? only explanation i can think of is that he has no idea what to write. he rewrites a lot and it's taking longer to write chapters. i have bad feeling about TWOW. i hope i'm wrong and this book will be better than the previous two.

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I think this nails it.  Rowling got world-building exactly right by having it serve the plot rather than vice versa.  And the only reason we care about Tolkien's world-building is because LotR was a magnificent epic.

Why are people even comparing Rowling to Martin?  They write nothing that's even remotely similar.  

Tolkien's works are appreciated by those who enjoy the classics and the myths of other cultures and the way he engaged with them.  As far as I'm concerned, The Silmarillion is his greatest creation, uncompleted (necessarily) as it was.  But again, he has next to nothing in common with Martin.

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Why are people even comparing Rowling to Martin?  They write nothing that's even remotely similar.  

Tolkien's works are appreciated by those who enjoy the classics and the myths of other cultures and the way he engaged with them.  As far as I'm concerned, The Silmarillion is his greatest creation, uncompleted (necessarily) as it was.  But again, he has next to nothing in common with Martin.

Rowling and Tolkien are both fiction writers who wrote very popular and influential fantasy novels. GRRM is also a fiction writer who wrote several very popular and influential fantasy novels. Unlike GRRM, however, they finished their most famous works before the adaptations. That's the main comparison.

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Absolutely. Rowling (as Martin has explicitly admitted) is also interesting as a directly comparable, contemporary example of how and how not to deal with an internet megafandom. Lemony Snicket, for example, is another (personally I find his (Daniel Handler's) approach the most endearing, though it hasn't pushed his world celebrity in the same way).

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I think a lot of you whiners are looking into this far too much. He missed some deadlines (not at all uncommon). Now you are throwing your hands up and claiming that his legacy is ruined? Grow up and stop the pouting. Grab some tissues before you drown in your tears. 

How is ASoIaF going to be ruined because it will be finished after the HBO adaptation? HBO adapted from HIS vision! If you are truly a fan of the book why would the HBO show even affect you? I get that there's going to be spoiler issues. But GRRM is going to release his story. Not HBO's. He told HBO how it was going down. They filled in the blanks with tits and violence. 

I had already watched seasons 1 and 2 before I started the books. So, I pretty much knew how things were going to go down. That didn't diminish the value of the story in the slightest bit. As I kept reading and watching it was clear that the two series were growing further and further apart. The two will be virtually unrelated before long. And to be honest, after last season it pretty much already is. 

He recently posted in his blog (as I'm sure you've already seen) about how thankful he was for the outpouring of support he was getting from fans regarding his delays. Christ, I hope he doesn't come to this thread and read everyone's incessant whining. How could any author get motivated after something like this?

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Most of us knew it anyway but the party is well and truly over.

I've met a lot of GRRM types in my professional career.  They are great at starting something but need others to help them finish otherwise they end up starting several projects and finishing none of them.  Then when the pressure is on they flounder even more and don't deliver at all.

I know it is macabre and I know it's disrespectful to the author.  But he is never going to finish these books.  He has created a vast monster he is unable to tame.  Let's be honest he is procrastinating.  He has done so since 2001.  The last two books were nowhere near of the same quality as the first three and took ages to write.  This was before the distraction of fame.  He is lost.  And these books will never be finished.

If he can't write at pace in his 50's and 60's then there is no chance he can write at pace in his 70's or 80's and there is every possibility that he won't make it that far anyway or, as is common in older people (especially those pushing themselves too hard), he will have health complications that will stop him being able to write the book even if his mind is still sharp.

Watch the show guys.  It's the only closure you're going to get on this story unless GRRM relaxes his rule of allowing someone else to finish the novels should he be unable to do so.  And I believe he should do so.  GRRM is not our bitch, but we are not his either.  The moment he decided to share the world it became part of the public domain.  It's no longer just his and he is being an arrogant **** to those of us who have invested 20ish years and money on this journey only for him to say if he dies the books won't be finished.

He brought all of this on himself.  Hand the writing over George.  And do it whilst you're alive.  Because you aren't going to finish.  You probably won't even finish TWOW.

Agree with everything you say. 

On another note the quoting mechanism on this site is dreadful, bloody hell.

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I think this nails it. Rowling got world-building exactly right by having it serve the plot rather than vice versa. And the only reason we care about Tolkien's world-building is because LotR was a magnificent epic.

Rowling's world-building is far skimpier than Martin's. And Martin is a much better writer, IMHO (I'm not saying that Rowling is a bad writer, either).

Tolkien took 15 years to write LOTR, which is a quarter of the length of what Martin's published so far, so good writing takes time.

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How is ASoIaF going to be ruined because it will be finished after the HBO adaptation?

I agree that "ruined" is melodramatic.  But I think it's fair to say it's been compromised by the lower quality of the recent books and will be further compromised by the likely failure to complete the series.

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