Winds update (not a blog)

[Lautrec]

Oh, come on.

The show could have gotten two seasons out of Dance and Feast. They just didn't want to: that's why they cut many important plots.

Seriously, rant all you want, but "nothing" happens in those books?

 

And that's just the parts they decided to not include.

You thought those parts were not interesting enough? Then it was THEIR JOB to make them appealing for tv audiences.

Really, that's enough material for two years, and I'm sure Martin actually thought so. D&d just didn't bother.

 

More than half of those either happened or will be in Season 6. Besides, that's barely enough for half a season, let alone a full one. If they made 2 seasons they would have to add even more original material to fill the time, which in turn would cause you to complain more. Either way they can't win.

[Valhalla Morghulis]

Feast could have easily been one season and Dance could easily be season 6.

As for deadlines, the truth is like love, you can't hurry it.

Art is not mathematics.

And writing is rewriting and problem solving. The story is the easy part.

[Cas Stark]

George would not have made it to ADwD or been able to give us the Theon, Mercy(Arya), Barristan, Arrianne, and Alyanne Chapters if  he had been avoiding writing.  

This is not a term paper.  This is a world he's created and loves and wants to shares with us.

 "Oh, ye of little Faith and sense of entitlement and 'I want it now!'"

He is not avoiding writing.  World Creation is the hardest thing a fiction author can do and make believable and entertaining.  GRRM is still world creating. He's creating the Land of Always Winter (most likely to be seen through Bran's eyes) a place only cusory described in GoT  and probably much more we have yet to see as well.  Not to mention all the characters and conflicts that need resolving.  Tolstoy had the advantage of having history to rely on and no one knew Tolkien was writing what we would now call a sequel to "the Hobbit."  

So give the man a break.

Yes he is avoiding writing.  He says he can only write at home in peace and quiet with no distractions.

Yet instead of staying home he is constantly traveling, never mind the other projects he works on.  If you know you can only write when you are home, then you should probably stay home at least 2/3 of the time if not more.

 

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

There's probably quite a bit of book stuff still in season 6 anyway so it isn't just one season = 2 books.

theyve moved stuff around a bit and hopefully omitted a lot of then dithering and unnecessary elements. It's really not as simple as saying 'the series would be better with more book stuff'

[Good Guy Garlan]

Oh, come on.

The show could have gotten two seasons out of Dance and Feast. They just didn't want to: that's why they cut many important plots.

Seriously, rant all you want, but "nothing" happens in those books?

Siege of Riverrun with annoying Freys
Stannis' campaign
Northern Conspiracy
Sam in Braavos
Jon making the Wildlings cross the Wall
"death things in the water"
The Kingsmoot
Greyjoys attacking the Reach
Victarion travelling to Meereen
Dany facing battle to Meereen and Yunkai
Tyrion meeting the Griffs
Tyrion being kidnapped
Tyrion being part of a sellsword company
Quentyn meeting Dany
Quentyn "taming" a Dragon
Barristan preparing Meereen for battle.
Aegon landing in the Stormlands
Griffs taking the Stormlands
Arianne's plot to crown Myrcella

And that's just the parts they decided to not include.

You thought those parts were not interesting enough? Then it was THEIR JOB to make them appealing for tv audiences.

Really, that's enough material for two years, and I'm sure Martin actually thought so. D&d just didn't bother.

 

I'm definitely not one to defend the D&Ds, but there's only so much you can do with a story where nothing ends or has any resolution. I'd agree with you, maybe, if it was one season, but two seasons is just impossible.

You'd have the siege of Riverrun last two seasons? Stannis walking through the snow for two seasons? Sam traveling to Oldtown for two seasons? The Queenmaking plot being spread out over two seasons? Two seasons waiting for the Battle of Meereen? Two seasons waiting for Tyrion to meet Dany? 

I'm sorry but I just don't see how this would've been a good thing. Look how it turned out when they split Mockingjay or the Deathly Hallows or the Hobbit in an obvious cash grab. The audience deserves an ending, it is disrespectful to pad out a story like this. 

[Winter Blues]

I think a lot of you whiners are looking into this far too much. He missed some deadlines (not at all uncommon). Now you are throwing your hands up and claiming that his legacy is ruined? Grow up and stop the pouting. Grab some tissues before you drown in your tears. 

How is ASoIaF going to be ruined because it will be finished after the HBO adaptation? HBO adapted from HIS vision! If you are truly a fan of the book why would the HBO show even affect you? I get that there's going to be spoiler issues. But GRRM is going to release his story. Not HBO's. He told HBO how it was going down. They filled in the blanks with tits and violence. 

I had already watched seasons 1 and 2 before I started the books. So, I pretty much knew how things were going to go down. That didn't diminish the value of the story in the slightest bit. As I kept reading and watching it was clear that the two series were growing further and further apart. The two will be virtually unrelated before long. And to be honest, after last season it pretty much already is. 

He recently posted in his blog (as I'm sure you've already seen) about how thankful he was for the outpouring of support he was getting from fans regarding his delays. Christ, I hope he doesn't come to this thread and read everyone's incessant whining. How could any author get motivated after something like this?

It's awful. I don't even want to try to comment on the crap I've seen on here. People disgust me. Poor GRRM. The thing that burns me the most is how people are behaving towards an artist. HES A GOTDAMN ARTIST! Artist fucking hit snags. The creative process hits snags. Depression settles in, and they avoid the work and are open to be DISTRACTED! How can nobody see this? And yes, I do believe that he may occasionally lose interest and become disillusioned with the whole world he's created, but those are very human, very understandable reactions to the shitload of pressure he's dealing with trying to create something that he can be proud of AND that satisfies his fans. But to say that he's just not into it anymore, or that he doesn't care because he's now wealthy, or to say his legacy will be ruined is a very butthurt way to say you are butthurt because you're not getting what you want. I stand with Martin and his six year timeframe between books. And Gods I hope he never hears/reads any of the shit I've read on here and on Reddit. 

[Yevah]

This thread is all over the place and has gotten out of hand. It has turned to a place for people to rage and handful trying to defend George. May the Mother have mercy on all your souls

[Cas Stark]

I'm definitely not one to defend the D&Ds, but there's only so much you can do with a story where nothing ends or has any resolution. I'd agree with you, maybe, if it was one season, but two seasons is just impossible.

You'd have the siege of Riverrun last two seasons? Stannis walking through the snow for two seasons? Sam traveling to Oldtown for two seasons? The Queenmaking plot being spread out over two seasons? Two seasons waiting for the Battle of Meereen? Two seasons waiting for Tyrion to meet Dany? 

I'm sorry but I just don't see how this would've been a good thing. Look how it turned out when they split Mockingjay or the Deathly Hallows or the Hobbit in an obvious cash grab. The audience deserves an ending, it is disrespectful to pad out a story like this. 

I agree.  Characters rambling around meeting characters who are not important to the story is not something that can be turned into good TV.  

People at this point only want to blame HBO instead of blaming George.  In my opinion.  But lets not forget this is the same guy who inked the deal with HBO in 2007.  He has had PLENTY of time to finish the entire series by now.

[Rhodan]

 

There has to be some kind of knot similar to ADWD, there is no way he would be so far behind with the kind of deadlines he was hoping for.

It seems to me that "Knot" was really more A. excuse and B.symptom rather than cause of the problems.

[Slender Aimry Hill]

The psychological energy and suspense, and accordingly the potential money, generated by a popular series of books further boosted by in-progress telly and film adaptations is indisputably a massive, understandable temptation, to the author, the TV company and, for a time, the publisher.

HBO has brought the saga many, many extra readers, including many who wouldn't usually go for the genre. Some or many of us are doubtless among them.

But it is all a feature of late-capitalism greed inflation (as is the unrelenting speed of the TV productions), and, if I was the writer of a highly successful novel series, I hope I'd have the discipline to finish them before selling them. This result is fascinating, and possibly culturally ground-breaking. But it's not good for Martin or his books.

[aFeastForDragons]

A lot of musicians give up drinking and drugs because the have a moment of realisation that their music and fans are bigger than themselves. Its not about them anymore, they can't snort back a bag of cocaine and stumble about the stage giving a terrible performance to the 5,000 people who paid, travelled and watched your show. That is pathetic, selfish and a kick in the face to the your fans since it means so much to them and its become more than just you. 

The same thing goes for finishing a series that thousands or even millions are invested in. They need closure and they want to know what is happening to the characters they've spent years reading about.

Complaining that you can't write when you are in your luxury 5 star hotel on a 2 week vacation before your Comic-Coc appearance because you can only write on a shitty typewriter back in your US home is absolute horses**t. He set himself a deadline when he sold the rights to the show and he completely squandered his time. Now he's panicking and its only making things worse. The future of the series is up and the air and the years are flying by. 

Yes we as the fans can be angry at George, he sold the rights to two complete and utter morons who have a history of failed shows and know next to nothing about the characters and world they are bringing to TV. That is the most disappointing thing of all that his story is going to be finished by someone else and they are absolutely butchering it. The show is wildly inconsistent, full of plot holes, catered for a "fart joke" TV crowd, lacks the emotion depth and character development that the books have. Could I do a better job? Yes I could and so could 90% of the people in this thread. 

[Valhalla Morghulis]

I think DD did a great job adapting the first 4 seasons, and the decision to merge Sansa into the fake Arya plotline while unpopular to readers made televisual sense. Also condensing the meandering Tyrion plotline was well done. This says to me that DD understand their medium very well and there was more than enough material in the last 3 books for DD to make engaging TV seasons 5 and 6, just like they had the first 4. 

I am maybe one of the few who loves both the books and the show. Two very different mediums and both are being well made in the whole.

[Cas Stark]

It's awful. I don't even want to try to comment on the crap I've seen on here. People disgust me. Poor GRRM. The thing that burns me the most is how people are behaving towards an artist. HES A GOTDAMN ARTIST! Artist fucking hit snags. The creative process hits snags. Depression settles in, and they avoid the work and are open to be DISTRACTED! How can nobody see this? And yes, I do believe that he may occasionally lose interest and become disillusioned with the whole world he's created, but those are very human, very understandable reactions to the shitload of pressure he's dealing with trying to create something that he can be proud of AND that satisfies his fans. But to say that he's just not into it anymore, or that he doesn't care because he's now wealthy, or to say his legacy will be ruined is a very butthurt way to say you are butthurt because you're not getting what you want. I stand with Martin and his six year timeframe between books. And Gods I hope he never hears/reads any of the shit I've read on here and on Reddit. 

I think everyone understands about depression and distraction and procrastination.  15 years is a long 'snag'.  I take it as self evident that the longer time he writes the worse his final output is, since I consider Feast and Dance to be vastly inferior compared to the first three books, it also appears that he doesn't listen to his editors since I stand by my belief that not even a bad editor could have read Feast and thought 'great, let's print it'.  He is his own worst enemy.

I also don't see how his legacy is not harmed if he doesn't finish the series.  And with this latest update that sounds as if he is VERY FAR from finishing Winds, it seems like longer and longer odds he will finish it.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

I think DD did a great job adapting the first 4 seasons, and the decision to merge Sansa into the fake Arya plotline while unpopular to readers made televisual sense. Also condensing the meandering Tyrion plotline was well done. This says to me that DD understand their medium very well and there was more than enough material in the last 3 books for DD to make engaging TV seasons 5 and 6, just like they had the first 4. 

funny how there seems to be more sensible people on the book boards than the tv one.

 

i think George can't handle the extra pressure of the added audience and the visibility of his work. He's been getting slower and slower each book and I really don't think he quite knows how to get to the end of the story from where he is now. 

Maybe he took criticism to heart of his last two books and maybe he doesn't enjoy doing it any more. That's understandable. But that doesn't excuse the obvious work avoidance. we all avoid the hard stuff all the time in our lives, but we shouldn't be told 'that's ok, take your sweet time', he knows he's screwing up, and maybe it's ok for us the be annoyed at it

[Cas Stark]

funny how there seems to be more sensible people on the book boards than the tv one.

 

i think George can't handle the extra pressure of the added audience and the visibility of his work. He's been getting slower and slower each book and I really don't think he quite knows how to get to the end of the story from where he is now. 

Maybe he took criticism to heart of his last two books and maybe he doesn't enjoy doing it any more. That's understandable. But that doesn't excuse the obvious work avoidance. we all avoid the hard stuff all the time in our lives, but we shouldn't be told 'that's ok, take your sweet time', he knows he's screwing up, and maybe it's ok for us the be annoyed at it

I agree, but he had already slowed down considerably by Feast, and that was before there was an HBO deal so it's more than the added fame. He was already demonstrating that he had series issues with the story, all of this before HBO and massive worldwide fame.  

He has also said that he gets bored with the story when he knows the ending, so it could be that the HBO deal where he scoped out the broad ending of the story and then was basically locked into was the kiss of death for him creatively.  Now he's distracted AND he's bored with the story.

He doesn't seem the type to take criticism to heart to me, if he did, then Dance would not have been even more bloated than Feast.

[Brlackenwood]

Well, I'd be happy if Winds release until the end of 2016. I don't really care about the show anymore, so, yeah.

[RoamingRonin]

I am only angry with his sentiments toward spoilers. He first told us that he wanted his readers to feel like anything could happen now he doesn't care about spoilers? 

[tramtrist]

Based on his seemingly heartfelt blog posts and taking him on his honest word (which no one here has any reason to deny or suspect untrue because none of you know him personally)... when it's all said and done I expect his biggest regret will be the deal with HBO. 

If he hadn't made those commitments based on their timeline his mind would have been clear to do whatever he wanted with the only real pressure being his own.  That appears to be how he wants it and I think it's the direction he's trying to move.  It's the reason he posted what he did in the first place.

Everyone needs to get over it and let it be.

[Jaime4Brienne]

I just read that he missed the deadline and he won't have the book out before the new season. I'm not surprised. He did seem upset about it. I guess he can only do what he can do and he can't do anymore than that. I'd rather have a well written book anyway instead of a rush job.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

I agree, but he had already slowed down considerably by Feast, and that was before there was an HBO deal so it's more than the added fame. He was already demonstrating that he had series issues with the story, all of this before HBO and massive worldwide fame.  

He has also said that he gets bored with the story when he knows the ending, so it could be that the HBO deal where he scoped out the broad ending of the story and then was basically locked into was the kiss of death for him creatively.  Now he's distracted AND he's bored with the story.

He doesn't seem the type to take criticism to heart to me, if he did, then Dance would not have been even more bloated than Feast.

Good points. 

I think you are right. Hes probably known the end and most of the story beats for a very long time, hence why he was able to pass it over to HBO. The problem now is the tedious job of organising all the pieces and fitting everything together, which is maybe a lot more work and less fun than coming up with world building and stories.