Han Lotion Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I ask because it seems to me that his storyline is centered on the looming threat beyond the Wall; the Others. And with the info we get from the world book, a Dayne is a more likely candidate for Azor Ahai than a Targaryen. I know we have gotten several hints pointing to R+L=J but how does it advance the plot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamWhiteWalkerz Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 FFS... Of course Jon having Targaryen blood is better. How the fuck can people think "The Sword of The Morning" could possibly be better than "The Song of Ice and Fire". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainJugular Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 It's definitely possible. Personally I think Jon being Arthur or Ashara's son is the most interesting idea, whether it involves the Others are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterfellsedai Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 FFS... Of course Jon having Targaryen blood is better. How the fuck can people think "The Sword of The Morning" could possibly be better than "The Song of Ice and Fire". Geez. I hope no one ever replies to one of my posts like that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 i prefer jon is a son of Ashara dayne and Ned stark. Jon the ice-star or star-wolf. sounds pretty cool. since Ashara is incredibly beautiful, maybe jon can be more handsome since he will follow his mother's side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Wren Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I ask because it seems to me that his storyline is centered on the looming threat beyond the Wall; the Others. And with the info we get from the world book, a Dayne is a more likely candidate for Azor Ahai than a Targaryen. I know we have gotten several hints pointing to R+L=J but how does it advance the plot? Not sure if the "prophecy of AA" will end up being true. . . But the Sword of the Morning is ancient, Westerosi, and known to be real. It has a history that insists on worthiness to wield the sword Dawn and carry the title. Only if worthy can one do so--if not, the title lies dormant and Dawn waits at Starfall.It sounds like a hero's title, waiting for the right fight.The Targs are imports. Parvenues. Good Queen Alysanne even got the Night's Watch to close up the Night Fort--the oldest castle on the Wall. The one with the magical Black Gate--why were the Targs interfering with the Wall? One way or another, the Targs don't seem to understand the Wall, the North, its purposes, or the Others. But Jon sees the Sword of the Morning glowing in the dawn above the Wall. As though they go together.Could the Targs have a key role in ending the impending Long Night? Yes. Or, could they be mistakenly interpreting "prophecies?" Sure.But we know the Starks and Daynes have been in Westeros for millennia. The idea that two of the most ancient houses--one tied to the Wall, one to Dawn--might have something key to do re: the Long Night makes a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Lotion Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 Because we have reason to believe the Sword of the Morning may possess Lightbringer and will be a major player in the Battle for the Dawn. There has yet to be any evidence that ASOIAF has anything to do with end game. All we know is it may refer to Aegon and a marriage alliance between Stark and Targ.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nara Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I ask because it seems to me that his storyline is centered on the looming threat beyond the Wall; the Others. And with the info we get from the world book, a Dayne is a more likely candidate for Azor Ahai than a Targaryen. I know we have gotten several hints pointing to R+L=J but how does it advance the plot? I get your point, because of Dawn and Lightbringer, etc., but it would call into question why Ned didn't tell Catelyn the truth about Jon (regardless of what he might have told other people) and allowed the child to suffer by being treated badly for years. Also, R+L=J does advance the story because of the dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 It would totally be better, if only because of the mental anguish it would cause to so many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Lotion Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 I get your point, because of Dawn and Lightbringer, etc., but it would call into question why Ned didn't tell Catelyn the truth about Jon (regardless of what he might have told other people) and allowed the child to suffer by being treated badly for years. Also, R+L=J does advance the story because of the dragons.We have dragons in the story regardless of R+L=J. And honestly I don't think anyone else will ride Dany' s dragons. Her bond with them would lose the lustre in my opinion. Moreover Ned could hide the truth from Catelyn for a few reasons....He or Brandon could actually be Jon's father, either of which would break her heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Additionally it would be more interesting to see how it was explained, as opposed to the foppy-assed love and roses version we are bound to get with R+L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I ask because it seems to me that his storyline is centered on the looming threat beyond the Wall; the Others. And with the info we get from the world book, a Dayne is a more likely candidate for Azor Ahai than a Targaryen. I know we have gotten several hints pointing to R+L=J but how does it advance the plot? First of all Azor Ahai is a myth. Even if he was real he lived so many thousands of years ago we can't know anything truthful about him. AA reborn TPTWP or the Last Hero are just archetypes for our heroes to. As for the plot, Arthur being Jon's dad just sucks and does nothing for the plot of the book. The series is called the song of ice and fire. If Jon is half child of winter and half dragon child, he is Literally the Song of Ice and Fire. Being the song of ice and sandy rock just doesn't have the same ring. Every single "theory" or more like ever series of intellectual masturbation that tries to figure out some way that AD can be Jon's dad only seems to get hatched out of a general dislike of Jon or Rhaegar. Well, tough sheet for them. It is George's book, and he has dropped so many hints of Jon's parentage that after 20 years of novels , the internet has compiled all of them in a quite tidy way. All the ponderous reaching by fan fic writing Jon/Targ haters means nothing to what is actually in the book. Jon is not a Dayne, he will not be the sword of the morning and he will not inherit starfall. He is the brother and leader of the nights watch and is currently gravely wounded in castle black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aexion Qelos Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I ask because it seems to me that his storyline is centered on the looming threat beyond the Wall; the Others. And with the info we get from the world book, a Dayne is a more likely candidate for Azor Ahai than a Targaryen. I know we have gotten several hints pointing to R+L=J but how does it advance the plot? Good post. I agree that the plot would improve, because it would bring the Daynes under the spotlight, and (maybe) explain Ned Dayne's name, Darkstar's involvment, the fate of the sword, etc..., but I feel that this would rule out Jon being AAR, tPtwP, and leave it to Dany, Aegon or a secret Targaryen (NOOOOOO !!!). However, as you say, the text is against this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamWhiteWalkerz Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Because we have reason to believe the Sword of the Morning may possess Lightbringer and will be a major player in the Battle for the Dawn. There has yet to be any evidence that ASOIAF has anything to do with end game. All we know is it may refer to Aegon and a marriage alliance between Stark and Targ..\/\/\/\/\/First of all Azor Ahai is a myth. Even if he was real he lived so many thousands of years ago we can't know anything truthful about him. AA reborn TPTWP or the Last Hero are just archetypes for our heroes to. As for the plot, Arthur being Jon's dad just sucks and does nothing for the plot of the book. The series is called the song of ice and fire. If Jon is half child of winter and half dragon child, he is Literally the Song of Ice and Fire. Being the song of ice and sandy rock just doesn't have the same ring. Every single "theory" or more like ever series of intellectual masturbation that tries to figure out some way that AD can be Jon's dad only seems to get hatched out of a general dislike of Jon or Rhaegar. Well, tough sheet for them. It is George's book, and he has dropped so many hints of Jon's parentage that after 20 years of novels , the internet has compiled all of them in a quite tidy way. All the ponderous reaching by fan fic writing Jon/Targ haters means nothing to what is actually in the book. Jon is not a Dayne, he will not be the sword of the morning and he will not inherit starfall. He is the brother and leader of the nights watch and is currently gravely wounded in castle black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamWhiteWalkerz Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Good post. I agree that the plot would improve, because it would bring the Daynes under the spotlight, and (maybe) explain Ned Dayne's name, Darkstar's involvment, the fate of the sword, etc..., but I feel that this would rule out Jon being AAR, tPtwP, and leave it to Dany, Aegon or a secret Targaryen (NOOOOOO !!!). However, as you say, the text is against this. Why do people overrate the Daynes' importance so much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Wren Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I get your point, because of Dawn and Lightbringer, etc., but it would call into question why Ned didn't tell Catelyn the truth about Jon (regardless of what he might have told other people) and allowed the child to suffer by being treated badly for years. Also, R+L=J does advance the story because of the dragons.Without doubt, if Jon is Rhaegar's son, Ned's lying makes sense.But would Robert really be less hostile if Ned tells him Jon is Arthur's son? The son of Rhaegar's right hand man? Who helped "keep" Robert from his love? Who stole her? Would Robert really think it any less likely that Rhaegar's best buddy was a rapist if he already thinks Rhaegar was?There are a lot of scenarios how it could all go down. But I agree with a lot of others before me who have postulated that no matter who the father of Lyanna's child was, Robert wouldn't like it. And would be wroth. The idea that Rhaegar's best friend "raped" Lyanna instead of Rhaegar himself--can't see that as making Robert less hostile to the child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Why do people overrate the Daynes' importance so much?Well, one dayne is the most magnificent knight of his day, and one dayne is the most beautiful woman of her day. And they have one unique sword of the world. Another dayne is the most handsome and dangerous man in dorne too. They do look pretty impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Lotion Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 First of all Azor Ahai is a myth. Even if he was real he lived so many thousands of years ago we can't know anything truthful about him. AA reborn TPTWP or the Last Hero are just archetypes for our heroes to. As for the plot, Arthur being Jon's dad just sucks and does nothing for the plot of the book. The series is called the song of ice and fire. If Jon is half child of winter and half dragon child, he is Literally the Song of Ice and Fire. Being the song of ice and sandy rock just doesn't have the same ring. Every single "theory" or more like ever series of intellectual masturbation that tries to figure out some way that AD can be Jon's dad only seems to get hatched out of a general dislike of Jon or Rhaegar. Well, tough sheet for them. It is George's book, and he has dropped so many hints of Jon's parentage that after 20 years of novels , the internet has compiled all of them in a quite tidy way. All the ponderous reaching by fan fic writing Jon/Targ haters means nothing to what is actually in the book. Jon is not a Dayne, he will not be the sword of the morning and he will not inherit starfall. He is the brother and leader of the nights watch and is currently gravely wounded in castle black Ahhhh I never mentioned AD being his father. Also fire isn't used only in reference to Targaryens. We 've seen it used more to describe war. We've seen it used in reference to the Red God, which is not a diety associated with Targaryens. There is also "fire consumes and ice preserves. And we have no contextual evidence to say the series title is about Jon or that the story is about him. You're theorizing as much as I am, truth be told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Without doubt, if Jon is Rhaegar's son, Ned's lying makes sense.But would Robert really be less hostile if Ned tells him Jon is Arthur's son? The son of Rhaegar's right hand man? Who helped "keep" Robert from his love? Who stole her? Would he really think it any less likely that Rhaegar's best buddy was a rapist if he already thinks Rhaegar was?There are a lot of scenarios how it could all go down. But I agree with a lot of others before me who have postulated that no matter who the father of Lyanna's child was, Robert wouldn't like it. And would be wroth. The idea that Rhaegar's best friend "raped" Lyanna instead of Rhaegar himself--can't see that as making Robert less hostile to the child. excellent point about Robert. He'd harbor hostility towards the child regardless of who the father was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Maybe in a different story. House Dayne in ASOIAF is just a footnote, its popularity hugely disproportional to its importance.The Daynes are the Boba Fett of Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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