Ethan Glover's significance

[purple-eyes]

This guy is squire of Brandon Stark. after he was captured along with other guys, his father was also summoned to RK. 

Everybody got killed, possibly including his daddy, except Ethan. 

It is probably not because Aerys liked him or had respect over House Glover, I guess it is due to his young age (but still He attended TOJ battle among Ned's six men, so I guess he is not very young. but anyway, let us say he is too young, so somebody persuaded Aerys to forgive him).

then after one year of prison life, he went to TOJ with Ned and died there. 

Many people assume that it was Rhaegar who met him secretly after he came back from TOJ and asked him to tell Ned where is Lyanna so that Ned can find her. 

Some people even said Rhaegar told Ethan they are a happy eloping couple, so Ned knew about this and he only brought six men. 

Sounds good, right?

However, these is a big plot hole here. 

Rhaegar asked three KG to guard Lyanna and unborn Jon, if he let Ned go there to find Lyanna, he should have told KG about this and let them cooperate. 

If he simply informed Ned where TOJ and Lyanna is but asked KG to guard Lyanna from anyone (this is what KG did), then he is literally murdering three KG.

I know rhaegar loved to screw people by his confusing action, but this is just too silly. 

If he wanted to tell ned where Lyanna is, then what is the point of all these hiding and fighting of three KG?

Come back to the topic, 

I do not think Rhaegar told Ethan anything about Lyanna. 

Ethan was just a poor lad who escaped one death, but did not escape from another one. 

You either die for Brandon, or you die for Lyanna, that is his fate. He owed house stark his life.  

 

however, he still have some use. 

He stayed with Brandon for some time. brandon probably told him about Ashara Dayne and he may say how he loved her and how he had a bastard child with her. 

This is the information he told Ned later and this is the reason why GRRM did not kill him along everybody else.  

That is also why Ned went to starfall to visit Ashara. He really does not need to go there by himself with a new born jon to return a sword. 

why not send it later, or just ask Howland to return it? by the way he can also avoid the shame and guilt to kill Arthur. 

I think he wanted to claim Brandon's baby. 

But he found it is a stillborn baby. So this is the end of it. 

And ashara heard that Ned told her how brandon loved her and regret before his death, so she committed suicide, plus for the death of Arthur. 

 

but i also have a darker and less likely version to explain this. 

It was rhaegar who told Ethan and then Ned where Lyanna is. 

Because Lyanna told him Ned loved her so much, he would never kill the baby and would protect her baby all means. 

He also knew Arthur would not bend his knee (and he ordered them to guard Lyanna from anyone). But in order to let his promised prince born under a bleeding star, 

he needed to kill Arthur dayne, the knight of Starfall, whose sigil is a star and carried a sword which is made of heart of star and will literally bleed (stained by blood) when killing people. 

So Rhaegar told Ethan and then let him tell Ned where is Lyanna, he knew Ned would kill all of them then Arthur would be sacrificed as this bleeding star. 

Yeah, you have a evil Rhaegar here. He is ready to kill Arthur to fulfill the prophecy. 

that is why Arthur was so sad. How can he not be sad? (he was mentioned as sad in all the scenes, in TOJ, in Jaime's dream, in Jaime's knighting, I always feel he was totally persuaded by rhaegar on his prophecy, or maybe himself has some sort of dreams like Teora)

but sure, he may be willing to die for this. 

last but not the least, Arthur's famous quote: All knights must bleed, Jaime. Blood is the seal of our devotion

 

[RobertRivers]

That bleeding star part is interesting. I can dig it. 

[Good Guy Garlan]

That bleeding star part is interesting. I can dig it. 

Same here, I like it

[Lord Varys]

We actually don't know if Ethan Glover spent the whole Rebellion in prison. He could have escaped, or he could have been freed. The idea that Rhaegar confided in him makes little sense - the reason why he was with Ned and the others at the tower most likely has more to do with the fact that he was a man Ned trusted (like the others were - Ned most certainly handpicked them if he knew in advance that he was looking for Lyanna and/or suspected/knew what had happened between her and Rhaegar).

There is a lot of confusion about this whole trial thing anyway. Elbert Arryn's father was long dead when he was executed, so there was no reason to assume that Ethan got away because his father did not show up as some people once suggested - Elbert's father could not possibly have shown up.

But who knows, it is not even impossible that Ethan Glover was for some reason found innocent by the Mad King and was allowed to return home alongside his father before the Rebellion broke out. After all, the Aerys II was called 'the Mad King' because he was crazy. He had sudden mood swings, and it would not surprise me one bit if he actually pardoned Ethan because of 'reasons'. Not to mention that the boy could have broken during torture, telling Aerys everything he wanted to her and thus confirming his suspicions about Brandon, Rickard, and Rhaegar, eventually causing the whole case against them.

[purple-eyes]

We actually don't know if Ethan Glover spent the whole Rebellion in prison. He could have escaped, or he could have been freed. The idea that Rhaegar confided in him makes little sense - the reason why he was with Ned and the others at the tower most likely has more to do with the fact that he was a man Ned trusted (like the others were - Ned most certainly handpicked them if he knew in advance that he was looking for Lyanna and/or suspected/knew what had happened between her and Rhaegar).

There is a lot of confusion about this whole trial thing anyway. Elbert Arryn's father was long dead when he was executed, so there was no reason to assume that Ethan got away because his father did not show up as some people once suggested - Elbert's father could not possibly have shown up.

But who knows, it is not even impossible that Ethan Glover was for some reason found innocent by the Mad King and was allowed to return home alongside his father before the Rebellion broke out. After all, the Aerys II was called 'the Mad King' because he was crazy. He had sudden mood swings, and it would not surprise me one bit if he actually pardoned Ethan because of 'reasons'. Not to mention that the boy could have broken during torture, telling Aerys everything he wanted to her and thus confirming his suspicions about Brandon, Rickard, and Rhaegar, eventually causing the whole case against them.

I feel that if he was spared out of hundreds of people, there must be a reason for GRRM to do this. 

I do not think he just went home and then came to south again to fight, this is sort of pointless to write.

neither he confessed some crime of house stark. In that case, Ned would not trust him and Ethan may not want to fight with Ned either. 

I will stick to the Brandon and Ashara version about Ethan. 

I imagine brandon knew he would die, and he heard that Ehtan would be spared, then he just told Ethan he used to sleep with Ashara in HH tourney and her baby is his. He wanted Ethan to tell Ned to visit Ashara and take care of his child, and maybe pass some information to Ashara to confess his love and regret. This would broke Ashara's heart (if she has not heard about death of Brandon yet), plus the death of Arthur, she had good reason to kill herself. 

 

[Lord Varys]

neither he confessed some crime of house stark. In that case, Ned would not trust him and Ethan may not want to fight with Ned either. 

Not necessarily. He could have joined Ned in an attempt to make amends for his treason. Not to mention that Ethan would not have been considered a traitor or blamed for his deeds if Aerys tortured him into making false confessions.

People usually forget that Aerys was the king. He could do that. And we know that he did, back when he accused that mistress of his and her family to have poisoned his infant son.

[Cagey Bee]

That bleeding star part is interesting. I can dig it. 

+1

I like it, haven't  heard this angle before. I really like how this fits with everything..

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

This guy is squire of Brandon Stark. after he was captured along with other guys, his father was also summoned to RK. 

Everybody got killed, possibly including his daddy, except Ethan. 

It is probably not because Aerys liked him or had respect over House Glover, I guess it is due to his young age (but still He attended TOJ battle among Ned's six men, so I guess he is not very young. but anyway, let us say he is too young, so somebody persuaded Aerys to forgive him).

then after one year of prison life, he went to TOJ with Ned and died there. 

Many people assume that it was Rhaegar who met him secretly after he came back from TOJ and asked him to tell Ned where is Lyanna so that Ned can find her. 

Some people even said Rhaegar told Ethan they are a happy eloping couple, so Ned knew about this and he only brought six men. 

Sounds good, right?

However, these is a big plot hole here. 

Rhaegar asked three KG to guard Lyanna and unborn Jon, if he let Ned go there to find Lyanna, he should have told KG about this and let them cooperate. 

If he simply informed Ned where TOJ and Lyanna is but asked KG to guard Lyanna from anyone (this is what KG did), then he is literally murdering three KG.

I know rhaegar loved to screw people by his confusing action, but this is just too silly. 

If he wanted to tell ned where Lyanna is, then what is the point of all these hiding and fighting of three KG?

Come back to the topic, 

I do not think Rhaegar told Ethan anything about Lyanna. 

Ethan was just a poor lad who escaped one death, but did not escape from another one. 

You either die for Brandon, or you die for Lyanna, that is his fate. He owed house stark his life.  

 

however, he still have some use. 

He stayed with Brandon for some time. brandon probably told him about Ashara Dayne and he may say how he loved her and how he had a bastard child with her. 

This is the information he told Ned later and this is the reason why GRRM did not kill him along everybody else.  

That is also why Ned went to starfall to visit Ashara. He really does not need to go there by himself with a new born jon to return a sword. 

why not send it later, or just ask Howland to return it? by the way he can also avoid the shame and guilt to kill Arthur. 

I think he wanted to claim Brandon's baby. 

But he found it is a stillborn baby. So this is the end of it. 

And ashara heard that Ned told her how brandon loved her and regret before his death, so she committed suicide, plus for the death of Arthur. 

 

but i also have a darker and less likely version to explain this. 

It was rhaegar who told Ethan and then Ned where Lyanna is. 

Because Lyanna told him Ned loved her so much, he would never kill the baby and would protect her baby all means. 

He also knew Arthur would not bend his knee (and he ordered them to guard Lyanna from anyone). But in order to let his promised prince born under a bleeding star, 

he needed to kill Arthur dayne, the knight of Starfall, whose sigil is a star and carried a star sword. 

So Rhaegar told Ethan and then let him tell Ned where is Lyanna, he knew Ned would kill all of them then Arthur would be sacrificed as this bleeding star. 

Yeah, you have a evil Rhaegar here. He is ready to kill Arthur to fulfill the prophecy. 

that is why Arthur was so sad. How can he not be sad?

but sure, he may be willing to die for this. 

 

 

 

A sigil is a very lame substitute for the red comet.  Very, very lame.  I would hope GRRM is a much better writer and author than this.  It is even lamer than Patrek's surcoat and his blood after Wun pulverized him. 

[purple-eyes]

A sigil is a very lame substitute for the red comet.  Very, very lame.  I would hope GRRM is a much better writer and author than this.  It is even lamer than Patrek's surcoat and his blood after Wun pulverized him. 

not just a sigil, Arthur carried a blade made of heart of star. 

When he killed people, this blade is stained by blood, this is quite literally a bleeding star. 

 

[Scorpion92]

I like the part about Arthur as bleeding star.

But that kinda makes Rhaegar a complete asshole if he was not one before.

[purple-eyes]

I like the part about Arthur as bleeding star.

But that kinda makes Rhaegar a complete asshole if he was not one before.

Yeah, but prophecy is important for him. 

Like Craster gave his sons to Others. Or Pentos people killed their prince to pray the gods. 

[Hangover of the Morning]

My guess would be that Ethan volunteered to go to the Tower of Joy, either out of guilt or more likely in a hope to gain his spurs and earn a bit of fame or gratitude from House Stark. Ned probably handpicked the men he trusted and then asked for volunteers to follow him as I can't imagine Ned ordering his men to follow him on a personal and likely fatal quest once the war was de facto over.. Ethan could have been among the men Ned asked or he learned about the mission and begged Ned to take him.

As to why the story "needed" Ethan to accompany Ned to the Tower of Joy, I like the purple-eyes suggestion that Ethan was the one who told Ned about Ashara and Brandon. Ashara is my favourite candidate for the "snitch" who told Ned about the ToJ. I don't know if Ethan telling Ned about B+A, let to Ashara revealing the location or vice versa but either way I could see those two events being connected. 

[Ibbison from Ibben]

Ethan as a communication link, either between Brandon and Ned or between Rhaegar and Ned makes sense, although Aerys probably spared him due to his age. The bleeding star idea is very interesting. 

 

 

Yeah, you have a evil Rhaegar here. He is ready to kill Arthur to fulfill the prophecy. 

 

Whether Rhaegar should be branded as evil or not would seem to depend on how vital fulfilling the prophesy was. If Arthur's death was necessary to save Westeros from the Others (and Rhaegar knew it) it is hard to call Rhaegar evil.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Glover was likely spared because he had little choice to go. He was Brandon's squire, a vassal of the North and the Glovers being a Masterly House may even be a lower rank than the other men with Brandon.

Jeffory Mallister, Kyle Royce, and Elbert Arryn had no obligation to obey Brandon, they were neither his fathers subjects or his squire. They joined with him willingly and as such were treated as his equals in the treason.

[purple-eyes]

Glover was likely spared because he had little choice to go. He was Brandon's squire, a vassal of the North and the Glovers being a Masterly House may even be a lower rank than the other men with Brandon.

Jeffory Mallister, Kyle Royce, and Elbert Arryn had no obligation to obey Brandon, they were neither his fathers subjects or his squire. They joined with him willingly and as such were treated as his equals in the treason.

honestly every time I feel surprised that although Brandon had wolf blood, why would these three young lords follow his stupid action all the way from riverlands to KL? 

Are they also having wolf blood? Or they are also in love with lyanna? 

You are his friends, but you really do not need to go with him to "commit suicide". 

[Kal-L]

On 9/1/2016 at 5:16 PM, purple-eyes said:

honestly every time I feel surprised that although Brandon had wolf blood, why would these three young lords follow his stupid action all the way from riverlands to KL? 

Are they also having wolf blood? Or they are also in love with lyanna? 

You are his friends, but you really do not need to go with him to "commit suicide". 

Well they were good friends and probably felt that Rhaegar had insulted House Stark so they went with him not thinking that their leader would outright threaten the heir of the of the 7K in front of his father.

I like your theory about Brandon who might have chosen to honor his House and his father instead of his lady of love.

[Clegane'sPup]

Although I don’t agree with purple-eyes presentation I do wonder why Glover was the only one to survive the KL ordeal. I also am curious as to how he ended up being a part Eddard’s group if seven against three.  They were seven, facing three. In the dream as it had been in life.

[Darth Sidious]

On 1/9/2016 at 8:36 PM, purple-eyes said:

This guy is squire of Brandon Stark. after he was captured along with other guys, his father was also summoned to RK. 

Everybody got killed, possibly including his daddy, except Ethan. 

It is probably not because Aerys liked him or had respect over House Glover, I guess it is due to his young age (but still He attended TOJ battle among Ned's six men, so I guess he is not very young. but anyway, let us say he is too young, so somebody persuaded Aerys to forgive him).

then after one year of prison life, he went to TOJ with Ned and died there. 

Many people assume that it was Rhaegar who met him secretly after he came back from TOJ and asked him to tell Ned where is Lyanna so that Ned can find her. 

Some people even said Rhaegar told Ethan they are a happy eloping couple, so Ned knew about this and he only brought six men. 

Sounds good, right?

However, these is a big plot hole here. 

Rhaegar asked three KG to guard Lyanna and unborn Jon, if he let Ned go there to find Lyanna, he should have told KG about this and let them cooperate. 

If he simply informed Ned where TOJ and Lyanna is but asked KG to guard Lyanna from anyone (this is what KG did), then he is literally murdering three KG.

I know rhaegar loved to screw people by his confusing action, but this is just too silly. 

If he wanted to tell ned where Lyanna is, then what is the point of all these hiding and fighting of three KG?

Come back to the topic, 

I do not think Rhaegar told Ethan anything about Lyanna. 

Ethan was just a poor lad who escaped one death, but did not escape from another one. 

You either die for Brandon, or you die for Lyanna, that is his fate. He owed house stark his life.  

 

however, he still have some use. 

He stayed with Brandon for some time. brandon probably told him about Ashara Dayne and he may say how he loved her and how he had a bastard child with her. 

This is the information he told Ned later and this is the reason why GRRM did not kill him along everybody else.  

That is also why Ned went to starfall to visit Ashara. He really does not need to go there by himself with a new born jon to return a sword. 

why not send it later, or just ask Howland to return it? by the way he can also avoid the shame and guilt to kill Arthur. 

I think he wanted to claim Brandon's baby. 

But he found it is a stillborn baby. So this is the end of it. 

And ashara heard that Ned told her how brandon loved her and regret before his death, so she committed suicide, plus for the death of Arthur. 

 

but i also have a darker and less likely version to explain this. 

It was rhaegar who told Ethan and then Ned where Lyanna is. 

Because Lyanna told him Ned loved her so much, he would never kill the baby and would protect her baby all means. 

He also knew Arthur would not bend his knee (and he ordered them to guard Lyanna from anyone). But in order to let his promised prince born under a bleeding star, 

he needed to kill Arthur dayne, the knight of Starfall, whose sigil is a star and carried a sword which is made of heart of star and will literally bleed (stained by blood) when killing people. 

So Rhaegar told Ethan and then let him tell Ned where is Lyanna, he knew Ned would kill all of them then Arthur would be sacrificed as this bleeding star. 

Yeah, you have a evil Rhaegar here. He is ready to kill Arthur to fulfill the prophecy. 

that is why Arthur was so sad. How can he not be sad? (he was mentioned as sad in all the scenes, in TOJ, in Jaime's dream, in Jaime's knighting, I always feel he was totally persuaded by rhaegar on his prophecy, or maybe himself has some sort of dreams like Teora)

but sure, he may be willing to die for this. 

last but not the least, Arthur's famous quote: All knights must bleed, Jaime. Blood is the seal of our devotion

 

There is no significance to Ethan Glover.  He was just one of the hotheaded young men who made up that asshole Brandon Stark's goon squad who threatened to kill Prince Rheagar.  Aerys gave him a break and he wasted it by accompanying Ned to the tower of joy.  He got what was coming to him. 

[Kal-L]

40 minutes ago, Lord High Papal said:

There is no significance to Ethan Glover.  He was just one of the hotheaded young men who made up that asshole Brandon Stark's goon squad who threatened to kill Prince Rheagar.  Aerys gave him a break and he wasted it by accompanying Ned to the tower of joy.  He got what was coming to him. 

How were they supposed to know Brandon would threaten the Rhaegar inside the castle ? How is Brandon an asshole ?

[Darth Sidious]

7 minutes ago, Kal-L said:

How were they supposed to know Brandon would threaten the Rhaegar inside the castle ? How is Brandon an asshole ?

Storming into the ruling family's keep and threatening the life of the prince is kinda reckless and dumb.  He got his armed squad killed, thought they were dumb to go along with it.  Brandon and Lyanna grew up together.  Surely Brandon would have entertained the thought that Lyanna might have struck out on her own.  Yet he quickly assumed that Prince Rheagar kidnapped her, one year after Harrenhal.  I can think of many ways to have handled the situation better.