The Case for Jon & Dany

[Pod The Rod]

Alright, so here's a topic that is something of an odd one on the forums: a prospective romantic match/marriage between Jon and Daenerys. If any subject could be said to be the white elephant of westeros.org, it's this: everyone is aware of it as a very distinct possibility, yet to my best recollection there has never been any thread devoted solely to it. To the extent it ever comes up at all, it's in the form of "Please don't let Jon marry Dany, please let him get with *insert preferred female character*". To date, I've seen people propose matches with Val (nah), Margaery (wat), Sansa (no way), and Arya (OH FUCK NO), in an attempt to evade the seeming aura of inevitability that this has. Same goes for Daenerys, people try to set her up with Victarion (BAHAHAHAH), Euron (FFS), and Tyrion (closer but still no).

Why do people hate the idea of this match so much? So far as I can tell, it's a combination of thinking that their personalities are fundamentally incompatible and therefore that they'd be a toxic marriage akin to Robert and Cersei, thinking that more Targaryen incest is not the way to go to lead the house and Westeros into a brave new world, and particularly in the case of Jon diehards, thinking one character is "not worthy" of the other or not wishing to see their hero share the spotlight in any way.

So, and be forewarned because this will get very long, in order to make the case for Jon and Dany, I'm going to address each of these as best I can.

First, what does Jon like in a girl?

The reader is fortunate in the cases of these two, because they both have previous relationships with a lot of personal love and intimacy, that showcase what they like and do not like in a potential mate. In the case of Jon, we have Ygritte and Val (the latter is highly instructive to compare to Dany). On meeting Ygritte, Jon is initially repelled by her wildness and free-spiritedness. However, as he spends more time near her, he changes his outlook completely on this to the point that it becomes the thing that he loves by far the most about her personality. Ygritte shows a compassion for the elder races and the old fading magics, which also imprints itself on him deeply. 

In the case of Val, Jon is awestruck on every encounter with her by her beauty, mentioning not just once but at least three times that "Val would turn heads in any court in the world" and that "Val would make a fitting wife for any lord". As opposed to Ygritte, whose only really striking feature was her hair and anything else required rose-colored glasses to find, we have it hammered into our heads both that Val is beautiful on the classical mold and that Jon is extremely attracted to such beauty. In addition to this, Jon is struck by her leadership capabilities, her wildness and free-spiritedness (similar to Ygritte), her sense of humor, and her general exceptionalness. However, and this is very, very important for people who ship Jon-Val, we have the matter of Shireen. Val is wrong here. Simply put, if there is going to be a greyscale outbreak anywhere, it'll be in the Stormlands. We already have a greyscale patient with an active case who is refusing treatment. An outbreak at the Wall would be massively overegging the pudding with everything else that is going on there. Moreover, even were Val right about Shireen (which she isn't), she is far too eager to kill a child for Jon's liking. GRRM put that scene in for a very specific reason: to show why Jon and Val, for all their similarities, would truly be a toxic marriage.

So what have we seen about Jon's likes and dislikes?

1. Wildness

2. Attachment to old things and magic

3. Great beauty

4. Leadership

5. Sense of humor

6. Exceptionalness

7. Children, the diseased, and diseased children.

So, how does Dany stack up here? 

1. Most people's impression of Dany is that she is a dainty, courtly girl akin to Sansa who could not abide being wild or grimy. Most people are wrong. The happiest Daenerys Targaryen has ever been was when she was roaming the Dothraki Sea with Drogo: every day in the saddle, with flies, heat, and dust everywhere, yet wild and free to roam. By contrast, she feels stifled and confined in Qarth and Meereen, where she lives in ultimate decadent luxury. Her last Dance chapter compares Hizdahr's likely disgust at eating from a freshly killed horse to Daario, who would "laugh, carve off a hunk of meat with his arakh, and squat down to eat beside her". 

2. The Mother of Dragons is very much about magic. Very, very much. Maybe not the giants and children of the forest like Ygritte was, but who's to say she wouldn't be for helping them out too?

3. The Most Beautiful Woman In The World. Sansa, Cersei, Arianne, Margaery, and others may vie for #2, but of all women living the top spot is Dany's. 

4. The hundreds of thousands of fanatically devoted followers would tend to suggest that she's an inspiring leader.

5. Yes, really. Go back and read her chapters and you'll find yourself astonished by just how much she likes joking around and general light-heartedness. Her immediate response when Quentyn shows up with a huge offer of alliance is to crack a joke. 

6. As of this point, she's already made herself one of the most important figures in the history of Planetos, and she's far from done. She has more prophecies pointing in her direction than even Jon himself. You can't get much more exceptional than that.

7. Her biggest difference with Val. Almost within a chapter of Val's suggestion of axe-based euthanasia, we see Daenerys go out into a camp of people with a bloody flux and feed them and wash their brows. The whole reason for her Slaver's Bay arc was her compassion for the masses of sick, starving helpless people, rather similar to a certain crow's planned Hardhome venture. Val decapitates diseased kids. Dany feeds them, comforts them, and sensibly quarantines them while praying for their recovery. Which sounds like Jon's preferred girl to you?

Secondly, what does Dany like in a guy?

Here, we have it even easier than we do with Jon, because of all the characters in ASOIAF, none "have a type" more than Dany. As TV Tropes puts it, "likes buff, dangerous bad boys. Energetic in bed a must". And they certainly have a point. Drogo and Daario are very physically fit. They are extremely skilled at arms. They are very, ah, skilled with their *other* sword. They are, in short, total testosterone fueled badasses.

But does Dany like everything about them? No, actually. She objects to the enslavement of the Lhazarene that Drogo carries out to fund his planned amphibious assault on Westeros and saves Eroeh. She repeatedly stamps on every suggestion Daario makes about harming innocents. In short, she likes their badass side, but does not like their bad side. 

So, we have as characteristics for Dany's ideal guy.

1. Strong and physically fit

2. Martial badass

3. Sex god

4. Doesn't like hurting innocents

So, how does Jon stack up?

1. Physically fit? Oh yeah, as Iron Emmett, Alliser Thorne, any number of wildlings, and the spear with Black Jack's head on it can attest. 

2. Training and improving every day. Already pretty damn good.

3. Did Drogo even know what the Lord's Kiss was?

4. Already discussed, so yes.

So, to summarize, Jon and Dany each have all the characteristics that the other likes, while lacking the traits the other doesn't like.

Thirdly, is Targaryen incest a good or bad thing where Martin is concerned?

Most people would say bad. They have a point, as it's arguably contributed in large part to the famed Targaryen madness. Even more, how could it be a good thing for Westeros to continue this practice? My answer is that GRRM famously said he wanted a bittersweet ending. Well, what could be more bittersweet than for Westeros to return to the status quo? Imagine, after all that's happened, the War of Five Kings, the Long Night, all of it, a fair number of beloved characters survive (hence the sweet), but the exact same reign of the Targaryens returns unchanged, guaranteeing more internecine conflicts? Further, in the words of Harry Strickland, "We need the girl. We need the marriage. If Daenerys accepts our princeling and takes him for her consort the Lords of the Seven Kingdoms will do the same. Without her, he will be denounced as a fraud and pretender." Dany's acceptance of him by giving him her hand in marriage will be the final piece that convinces the world of Jon's heritage. Simply riding a dragon won't be enough, if Tyrion also ends up doing it. 

Fourth, their relative status to one another.

Of all the characters in ASOIAF, these are the two with the most prophecies pointing directly at them. It's fun to crackpot around with "Brienne is Azor Ahai" and "Tyrion is the Stallion that Mounts the World", but at the end of the day, more than anyone else, these are the two people that the fate of the world will depend on. They are equals, in a way that no other partner for either of them could ever be. That alone, without anything else, points towards a match between them. 

[purple-eyes]

I think they will marry, but it is likely a political match for the country. Not some romantic love. 

Dany held her true love over drogo, I guess. 

[Joan Jett]

There's been plenty of threads on Jon/Dany. Quick google search:

 

 

 

[Pod The Rod]

There's been plenty of threads on Jon/Dany. Quick google search:

 

I stand corrected. I wasn't frequenting the forum when any of those came out, though, so I never saw them. Still, another won't hurt, eight months after the most recent.

And of course, all of those are now archived and locked. And the OPs aren't making very good cases for it, IMO.

[NOT A TARG I SWEAR]

At this point at least it would be slightly less depressing than the original outline's "happily ever after" couple: Jon and Arya.

[Lord Lannister]

An issue with a Dany/Jon romance is we're five books into the series by now and having two characters who have been around since day one meet, get to know one another and hook up all in the space of two books, in the midst of everything else that's supposed to be going on would just seem forced and rushed. The incest is another issue that I disapprove of. Another is it would disappoint me and again seem forced if Jon ended up with some sort of sword in the stone reveal to be a prince just to marry the princess. Finally, I just can't see them liking one another. One reference to House Stark being the "usurper's dogs" would be enough to get them to dislike one another I'd imagine.

[Pod The Rod]

An issue with a Dany/Jon romance is we're five books into the series by now and having two characters who have been around since day one meet, get to know one another and hook up all in the space of two books, in the midst of everything else that's supposed to be going on would just seem forced and rushed. The incest is another issue that I disapprove of. Another is it would disappoint me and again seem forced if Jon ended up with some sort of sword in the stone reveal to be a prince just to marry the princess. Finally, I just can't see them liking one another. One reference to House Stark being the "usurper's dogs" would be enough to get them to dislike one another I'd imagine.

You're right, it will seem rushed. Of course, EVERYTHING with regards to the end of the series will seem rushed if GRRM really gets this done in two books. There's no character that either of them could get with permanently that would have a long, fulfilling set up, and this goes for other things, like the entire War For The Dawn that we're supposed to see. We're at the beginning of book 6 and the vast majority of Westeros still thinks the Others are a myth.

The incest and personality compatibility I addressed in the OP, do you disagree with what I said? I really, really do not think that Dany will still be on the "Usurper's Dogs" train when she gets to Westeros. Tyrion should be good for that at the least, and Barristan may well bring it up again.

It would disappoint me too if Jon just married a princess as part of becoming the superhero be all end all King. Which is why he's not getting Val. He's instead getting a complete equal who isn't just a trophy wife and brings as much to the table as he does.

[IceFire125]

“Why do the gods make kings and queens, if not to protect the ones who can’t protect themselves?”
“Some kings make themselves. Robert did.”
“He was no true king,” Dany said scornfully. “He did no justice. Justice … that’s what kings are for.”

He put a hand on Bran’s shoulder, and Bran looked over at his bastard brother. “You did well,” Jon told him solemnly. Jon was fourteen, an old hand at justice.

“That’s for the Old Bear to say, the one you call the Lord Crow. I’m only his squire. I do not choose the road I ride*.”
“No.” He could hear the defeat in her voice. “Sorry to be of trouble, m’lord. I only … they said the king keeps people safe, and I thought …” Despairing, she ran, Sam’s cloak flapping behind her like great black wings.
Jon watched her go, his joy in the morning’s brittle beauty gone. Damn her, he thought resentfully, and damn Sam twice for sending her to me. What did he think I could do for her? We’re here to fight wildlings, not save them**.

*No doubt the boy had made the mistake of thinking that the Night’s Watch was made up of men like his uncle. If so, Yoren and his companions were a rude awakening. Tyrion felt sorry for the boy. He had chosen a hard life … or perhaps he should say that a hard life had been chosen for him.

**“Once past the Wall, the wildlings will have thrice our numbers,” said Bowen Marsh. “And that is only Tormund’s band. Add the Weeper’s men and those at Hardhome, and they will have the strength to end the Night’s Watch in a single night.”
“Numbers alone do not win a war. You have not seen them. Half of them are dead on their feet.”
“I would sooner have them dead in the ground,” said Yarwyck. “If it please my lord.”
“It does not please me.” Jon’s voice was as cold as the wind snapping at their cloaks. “There are children in that camp, hundreds of them, thousands. Women as well.”
“Spearwives.”
“Some. Along with mothers and grandmothers, widows and maids … would you condemn them all to die, my lord?”

 

 

 

[Lord Lannister]

You're right, it will seem rushed. Of course, EVERYTHING with regards to the end of the series will seem rushed if GRRM really gets this done in two books. There's no character that either of them could get with permanently that would have a long, fulfilling set up, and this goes for other things, like the entire War For The Dawn that we're supposed to see. We're at the beginning of book 6 and the vast majority of Westeros still thinks the Others are a myth.

The incest and personality compatibility I addressed in the OP, do you disagree with what I said? I really, really do not think that Dany will still be on the "Usurper's Dogs" train when she gets to Westeros. Tyrion should be good for that at the least, and Barristan may well bring it up again.

It would disappoint me too if Jon just married a princess as part of becoming the superhero be all end all King. Which is why he's not getting Val. He's instead getting a complete equal who isn't just a trophy wife and brings as much to the table as he does.

You're likely right in that everything in the next two novels is going to be rushed and forced. There's really no avoiding that with all the filler in Feast and Dance. If he ends up stopping at seven at any rate. I think the story also suffered greatly when Martin decided to remove the planned five year gap, but that's another subject. I also think all the fantasy elements, the children, Others, dragons, magic, etc have been the least interesting parts of the story as peripheral as they've been up to this point.

I'm not going to think the incest is a good, or even bittersweet thing. If you disagree that's of course your prerogative, but it just complicates things as the entire Targaryen history has told. Or more recently the Jaime/Cersei relationship. I doubt Barristan's going to ever see Dany alive again as I think he's going to die, and Tyrion's influence in Dany is likely going to be minimal. Dany has a whole revisionist set of history regarding the Rebellion and Barristan's the only one who's tried to nudge her off that.

Jon was born and raised Stark. A frogman or tablet under Winterfell telling him he's a Targaryen isn't going to make him identify with them. He's grown up learning how they burned his grandfather, murdered his uncle and aunt. The last of the three may be reevaluated, but the first two definitely stand. Dany's done some terrible things along with the good, feels she has an entitlement to the leadership and will be coming to Westeros as a conqueror. I can't see Jon finding any of those attractive, especially when dragons start razing things.

A relationship with Val, for all their differences, would be far more natural. For the most part he and Ygritte had similar differences as well yet made it work for awhile in a believable fashion. Jon's older and wiser and Val for all her fierceness seems less extreme(in some ways) than Ygritte. I'm not saying I think it will happen, but I think Jon has far more in common and identifies with the wildling culture, which for better or worse he's grown up next to in the North, than the Targaryens.

Despite Stannis' desires(which likely will be moot before long), Val is far from a trophy wife and Jon definitely wouldn't view her as an inferior. Furthermore I'm uncertain Dany would look upon Jon as an equal. I think she'd see Ned Stark and the North in Jon Snow who helped kill her father and brother. It's not as if a political marriage is going to even be necessary between the two. At best Jon could bring the loyalty of the North. If Dany has dragons and the other six kingdoms, a political marriage for peace is going to be moot. Though Dany's career with political marriages(marrying Hizdahr, turning down Quentyn) seems less than politically astute. Even if it was just to bring the North to task, I can't see Jon going along with it for it's own sake, Night's Watch vows aside.

Just my opinion, their ship would be facing an uphill road so to say, but I suppose it's not entirely impossible.

[Joan Jett]

I'm quite sure that Jon will, ultimately, be king, but Dany being endgame Queen I'm less sure about. I can admit that there may be foreshadowing for Jon/Dany, especially the 'bride of fire' part of her prophecy, but I've also found hints at conflict between them as well. Like their dreams. Dany dreams of fighting  the usurper's army which is armored in ice. Jon dreams of being armored in ice. Also in ADWD a quote in Jon's POV like "what kind of man stands by and lets their brother burn alive?".  I'm really not sure about them overall. It really comes down to the circumstances of their first meeting. Given time, yeah they could probably grow to understand and like each other, but who says they will be afforded the luxury. 

Jon/Arya ,on the other hand, has been set up since book one by the author. Very strong (currently platonic) feelings exist between them already. That's why they could work as a 'last minute couple' IMO. Most try to say that it's abandoned, but nobody knows that for sure. In the most recent book Jon dies thinking of her. Arya also recalls Jon calling her pretty. Also I predict that news of Jon's death will reach Braavos, it may be the reason that she leaves Braavos. Jon broke his vows because of Arya, she might do the same for him.

Jon and Arya are also very much each other's  types. All the girls that Jon likes are similar to Arya, especially Ygritte. The very first time they meet Jon was reminded of Arya. Also Gendry, Arya's first 'crush', is also very similar to Jon. They're the same age, both bastards, and have secret royal parentages.  They find each other in other people, temporary homes. Anyway, I think there's heavy foreshadowing for them in all books. The foreshadowing for Jon/Dany is flimsier, but still possible in some ways I guess.

[Maxxine]

I'm quite sure that Jon will, ultimately, be king, but Dany being endgame Queen I'm less sure about. I can admit that there may be foreshadowing for Jon/Dany, especially the 'bride of fire' part of her prophecy, but I've also found hints at conflict between them as well. Like their dreams. Dany dreams of fighting  the usurper's army which is armored in ice. Jon dreams of being armored in ice. Also in ADWD a quote in Jon's POV like "what kind of man stands by and lets their brother burn alive?".  I'm really not sure about them overall. It really comes down to the circumstances of their first meeting. Given time, yeah they could probably grow to understand and like each other, but who says they will be afforded the luxury. 

Jon/Arya ,on the other hand, has been set up since book one by the author. Very strong (currently platonic) feelings exist between them already. That's why they could work as a 'last minute couple' IMO. Most try to say that it's abandoned, but nobody knows that for sure. In the most recent book Jon dies thinking of her. Arya also recalls Jon calling her pretty. Also I predict that news of Jon's death will reach Braavos, it may be the reason that she leaves Braavos. Jon broke his vows because of Arya, she might do the same for him.

Jon and Arya are also very much each other's  types. All the girls that Jon likes are similar to Arya, especially Ygritte. The very first time they meet Jon was reminded of Arya. Also Gendry, Arya's first 'crush', is also very similar to Jon. They're the same age, both bastards, and have secret royal parentages.  They find each other in other people, temporary homes. Anyway, I think there's heavy foreshadowing for them in all books. The foreshadowing for Jon/Dany is flimsier, but still possible in some ways I guess.

I can agree about foreshadowing about Jon & Arya. I just HATE HATE HATE the concept of Jon & Arya. As of right not their thoughts are completely brother/sister. I'm hoping it stays that way. Maybe all the foreshadowing just means they'll be together in the end but just as a brother & sister relationship. I'm all for Dany & Jon but could event deal with Jon & Val. Hell i could deal with Jon & Melisandre as long as it's not Jon & Arya. [emoji23]

[Pod The Rod]

You're likely right in that everything in the next two novels is going to be rushed and forced. There's really no avoiding that with all the filler in Feast and Dance. If he ends up stopping at seven at any rate. I think the story also suffered greatly when Martin decided to remove the planned five year gap, but that's another subject. I also think all the fantasy elements, the children, Others, dragons, magic, etc have been the least interesting parts of the story as peripheral as they've been up to this point.

I'm not going to think the incest is a good, or even bittersweet thing. If you disagree that's of course your prerogative, but it just complicates things as the entire Targaryen history has told. Or more recently the Jaime/Cersei relationship. I doubt Barristan's going to ever see Dany alive again as I think he's going to die, and Tyrion's influence in Dany is likely going to be minimal. Dany has a whole revisionist set of history regarding the Rebellion and Barristan's the only one who's tried to nudge her off that.

Jon was born and raised Stark. A frogman or tablet under Winterfell telling him he's a Targaryen isn't going to make him identify with them. He's grown up learning how they burned his grandfather, murdered his uncle and aunt. The last of the three may be reevaluated, but the first two definitely stand. Dany's done some terrible things along with the good, feels she has an entitlement to the leadership and will be coming to Westeros as a conqueror. I can't see Jon finding any of those attractive, especially when dragons start razing things.

A relationship with Val, for all their differences, would be far more natural. For the most part he and Ygritte had similar differences as well yet made it work for awhile in a believable fashion. Jon's older and wiser and Val for all her fierceness seems less extreme(in some ways) than Ygritte. I'm not saying I think it will happen, but I think Jon has far more in common and identifies with the wildling culture, which for better or worse he's grown up next to in the North, than the Targaryens.

Despite Stannis' desires(which likely will be moot before long), Val is far from a trophy wife and Jon definitely wouldn't view her as an inferior. Furthermore I'm uncertain Dany would look upon Jon as an equal. I think she'd see Ned Stark and the North in Jon Snow who helped kill her father and brother. It's not as if a political marriage is going to even be necessary between the two. At best Jon could bring the loyalty of the North. If Dany has dragons and the other six kingdoms, a political marriage for peace is going to be moot. Though Dany's career with political marriages(marrying Hizdahr, turning down Quentyn) seems less than politically astute. Even if it was just to bring the North to task, I can't see Jon going along with it for it's own sake, Night's Watch vows aside.

Just my opinion, their ship would be facing an uphill road so to say, but I suppose it's not entirely impossible.

Similar differences? I can't recall Ygritte ever suggesting the murder of children. I can promise you that if she had Jon would've reacted to it in much the same way as he did when Val did it. I think Barristan is absolutely going to see Dany alive again. Even if he doesn't, I promise that Tyrion will be more than happy to tear down all her illusions about Robert's Rebellion. 

Dany doesn't feel she's entitled to rulership; at least, no more than any of the other claimants to the throne. Hereditary monarchies are all about birthrights. Why should Jon not like her for feeling entitled, when entitlement is literally the foundation of their system of government?

I was being partially snarky when I called Val a trophy wife, but saying she'd bring nothing to a relationship other than her good looks isn't far off the mark. Jon himself notes that wildlings don't care who you're married to. To the extent they already follow him it's because of the strength of his personality. Marrying Val wouldn't change that one way or the other. 

I said it before but it bears repeating here: marrying Dany is the ultimate proof for the world that he is indeed a Targaryen. If that is going to have any meaning on the grand political scale at all, he needs far more proof than the word of Howland Reed, and even riding a dragon isn't going to be enough if Tyrion, demonstrably not a Targ, gets one. 

From Dany's perspective, it helps restore the perception of Targaryen power. You have the dragons, you have the banners, why not utilize one of the practices they were most known for to drive home the impression that Robert and his ilk were just an aberration and that now order has finally been restored? Plus, of course, who better is there for her?

 

I can agree about foreshadowing about Jon & Arya. I just HATE HATE HATE the concept of Jon & Arya. As of right not their thoughts are completely brother/sister. I'm hoping it stays that way. Maybe all the foreshadowing just means they'll be together in the end but just as a brother & sister relationship. I'm all for Dany & Jon but could event deal with Jon & Val. Hell i could deal with Jon & Melisandre as long as it's not Jon & Arya.

I don't think you have to worry about it. The original script called for many, many things that were not in the final books we got. None of the so-called foreshadowing Joan points to really shows anything romantic. All it shows is that they have an extremely strong platonic attachment. There's no reason to believe it will get perverted.

On that subject, a critical difference between the incest of a Jon-Arya relationship and the incest of Jon-Dany is the fact that Arya and Jon were raised as siblings. Discovery that they are actually cousins will not be powerful enough to overcome their early life together and the psychological implications of that (such as the Westermarck effect). Jon & Dany, on the other hand, will be meeting as complete strangers.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

OP, this is one of the best defenses of Jon and Dany I've ever read. I totally think the series (both books and show) are going that way, but die hard fans can't see it because of their love for Jon and their hate for Dany. For far too many, Jon is the ultimate Gary Stu who gets everything at the end, and Dany is just "Aerys the Mad King with teats."

But this is fandom reading into the text; George himself has written both characters as grey ones. Jon is not the typical fairytale prince-hero, and he's going to make for a moody, melancholy, and reluctant king who's just doing his duty if he takes any crown, KITN, IT, Wildlings' KBYW, whatever.

As for Dany, she's the ultimate non-Disney princess in everything save for her looks, unless we can imagine Cinderella or Elsa devouring a bloody stallion's heart, possessing a high sex drive, and having runny bowels alone in the wilderness, half crazed, at the end of her first "reign." I'll never cease being annoyed by those who claim she's had it easy. If she's been lucky (hatching dragons, surviving plots against her life, etc.) then Dany has created her own luck.

I think they'd be well matched. And it could be a rare opportunity in Westeros for a marriage to be between equals, although in my view, Jon would be getting the best end of the deal. Not because of the relative differences in their status or birth circumstances, but because Dany's one hell of a woman by any measure for that time and place. She definitely has some Nymeria-like qualities, although no one will give her any credit for them, nor note that since she has Dornish ancestry, she's actually a descendant of that legendary queen. Generally, Arya, another of my faves, gets associated with Nymeria, but Nym's choice to marry Mors Martell and burn her ships seems to echo Dany's future journey, a queen across the water who will also choose to remain in Westeros.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

I don't think you have to worry about it. The original script called for many, many things that were not in the final books we got. None of the so-called foreshadowing Joan points to really shows anything romantic. All it shows is that they have an extremely strong platonic attachment. There's no reason to believe it will get perverted.

On that subject, a critical difference between the incest of a Jon-Arya relationship and the incest of Jon-Dany is the fact that Arya and Jon were raised as siblings. Discovery that they are actually cousins will not be powerful enough to overcome their early life together and the psychological implications of that (such as the Westermarck effect). Jon & Dany, on the other hand, will be meeting as complete strangers.

 And the thing is, in a world before DNA testing and verified paternity, a world where dragons fly and ice zombies are bringing the apocalypse, falling in love with a girl whom you always believed was your little sister isn't as plausible as falling in love with a mysterious stranger.

Fans also are assuming that Jon and Dany will actually know that he's Rhaegar's son before they meet, or before any intimate or romantic involvement. If you think that's Martin's style, then I've got a bridge to sell you. It also would be an echo of the angsty outlined proto-Jon/Arya from the 20 years old outline. If they started falling, or even slept together (neither are the type to wait for marriage, lol), and then found out, not only would the angst be real, it could also have consequences for the actual endgame storyline, because it might drive a wedge between the two leaders just when the forces of ice & fire would need to be united to bring the Dawn.

[purple-eyes]

I think GRRM will make Jon become a polygamy person and marry both Dany and Arya to make all of you happy.................

Or maybe he will let him to marry Sansa, Margarey, asha, myrcella as well as Arianne, you know, king of seven kingdoms should have seven brides as well. He can sleep with one on one day of one week. Perfect. 

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

I think GRRM will make Jon become a polygamy person and marry both Dany and Arya to make all of you happy.................

Or maybe he will let him to marry Sansa, Margarey, asha, myrcella as well as Arianne, you know, king of seven kingdoms should have seven brides as well. He can sleep with one on one day of one week. Perfect. 

Ha! That sounds like fanfic.

Arya may not marry anyone, or if she does, it won't be Jon. She's got a range of possibilities once she grows up. Right now, she hasn't even flowered yet.

Sansa as a match for Jon is fanon, not canon. Marg might be a good choice, but she's also deeply associated with the Lannisters, having married both Joffrey and Tommen. Myrcella, Arianne... lol.

[Joan Jett]

About your fourth point on Jon/Dany being equals, yeah I suppose that's true, but they're still not each other's only options. Jon and Arya actually have a conversation about how a Queen should be equal to a King. There's also that line about Arya marrying a King. And that scene with Arya chasing and kissing that cat which is called 'the real king of the castle' and 'black bastard' which is very symbolic and meaningful. And of course the line about different roads leading to the same castle. All from AGOT.  That first book was really packed, lol. 

[TeamWhiteWalkerz]

By the end, Jon and Dany will be enemies.

[NorthernXY]

Thematically the combination of fire and ice marrying fire doesn't work.  Valyrians are the other side of the coin to Others.  If Dany wins, that means fire wins, throwing off balance.

 

It works if R + L doesn't equal J.  If Jon is just ice, then Dany and Jon can work because they'll be the song of ice and fire.

[Pod The Rod]

Thematically the combination of fire and ice marrying fire doesn't work.  Valyrians are the other side of the coin to Others.  If Dany wins, that means fire wins, throwing off balance.

 

It works if R + L doesn't equal J.  If Jon is just ice, then Dany and Jon can work because they'll be the song of ice and fire.

See, that's the kind of thinking that leads to "Jon is Ice and Fire and All Three Heads of The Dragon By Himself". Who says Jon isn't solely ice, because of how he was raised? The symbolic association with him is that of the Old Gods and the Starks, regardless of who dad was.