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Brian Powers Of Palantíri

The Dawn of Lightbringer

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I believe the Lightbringer story is true in that there was a sword forged to combat a threat to all mankind, and Nissa was a Willing Sacrifice, that is why Dawn glows with a White light ( I think of Moonstone, which has a shimmery light that seems to float across the surface) I also believe Dawn was forged somewhere in the Mountains of the MORN, which border the ancient Great Empire.

The Great Empire was created because the people were forced to unite against a threat to Mankind that arose in the far Northwest, in the Frozen Desert called the Grey Waste.
A Hero forged a magic sword, taking it from the forge still White Hot and thrust through a Willing sacrifice. Afterwards Dawn gives off a White shimmery Light, infused with a life force that was given freely to the blade. (V.S. is dark, infused with a persons essence taken forcefully.)

As Dawn nears the enemy Other, it begins to burn with a Red Light

The threat is beaten back, Dawn becomes White again, and an Empire is created and Ruled by someome Worthy and Strong enough to Lead. (Primitive cultures still follow strength, who they want to follow, i.e…Dothraki, Ironborn, Free Folk. )

When the threat is gone, measures are taken to ensure the Realms of Men will be prepared if the Threat ever comes back. The Five Forts are constructed, and an order is formed to shield the Empire.

After the death of the first ruler the greatest of the peoples gathered to choose the person most Worthy to next rule the Empire.
At some point during the heated debate swords are drawn, Dawn gets pulled from its sheath, but no blows fall, for everyone is silent, awestruck, because Dawn is glowing with a brilliant White Light.

This is how Dawn helped choose the 2nd G.E. Ruler(IMO, the Kings Son). After this display, Dawn would mostly be of no influence in the choosing of the Ruler, until the last kingsmoot, where Dawn chose the Amethyst Empress, but the throne was taken with force by Bloodstone.

A small group loyal to AE stole away with Dawn to an abandoned construction project on the other side of the world, these were the Great Daynes.

As the Centuries pass people disbelieve the old tales of an ancient threat to humanity, why the Order and Forts they manned were founded.
They fall into disrepair and are mostly abandoned when the Other comes back, destroying the Empire. 

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On 1/19/2016 at 11:52 PM, Maester Debater said:

As Dawn nears the enemy Other, it begins to burn with a Red Light


At some point during the heated debate swords are drawn, Dawn gets pulled from its sheath, but no blows fall, for everyone is silent, awestruck, because Dawn is glowing with a brilliant White Light.

A small group loyal to AE stole away with Dawn to an abandoned construction project on the other side of the world, these were the Great Daynes.

1: Where in the books did you get the idea that Dawn will glow in the presence of the others?

2: Dawn does not glow in any description. In Ned's fever dream he describes it as "Alive with light."   Since Ned and company were fighting the KG in the day time, it would be a reflection, not a glow. 
 

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1 hour ago, Dorian Martell said:

1: Where in the books did you get the idea that Dawn will glow in the presence of the others?

2: Dawn does not glow in any description. In Ned's fever dream he describes it as "Alive with light."   Since Ned and company were fighting the KG in the day time, it would be a reflection, not a glow. 
 

I don't know what @Maester Debater's answer is.

But the, as you say, Ned remembers the sword as "alive with light" and like milkglass. 

"And now it begins," said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light. Game, Eddard X

While the Others' sword in the Game Prologue: 

The Other slid forward on silent feet. In its hand was a longsword like none that Will had ever seen. No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade. It was alive with moonlight , translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on. There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor.

Different narrators, both describing a sword that doesn't look like either steel or Valyrian steel swords. And both swords are "alive with light." 

The Other's sword glows blue--is that because it innately does so? Or in the presence of the Watch? Or in the presence of humans (Nan does say they hate things with warm blood)? Perhaps a nod to Tolkien's elven swords, glowing in the presence of the enemy. 

Seems like there's at least a chance that Dawn's described in similar language for a reason. And that it might glow red--like the Wall will change colors in different light. Or like the Others' swords. And in Jon's dream, he only mentions the sword glowing red after the wights come. 

We need more data--but it seems like there's at least a chance Martin uses similar language for a reason. And that the Others' blue glowing swords and the red sword in Jon's hand are similar in appearance. Dawn--the icy, milky white blade, alive with light.

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21 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

I don't know what @Maester Debater's answer is.

But the, as you say, Ned remembers the sword as "alive with light" and like milkglass. 

"And now it begins," said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light. Game, Eddard X

While the Others' sword in the Game Prologue: 

The Other slid forward on silent feet. In its hand was a longsword like none that Will had ever seen. No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade. It was alive with moonlight , translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on. There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor.

Different narrators, both describing a sword that doesn't look like either steel or Valyrian steel swords. And both swords are "alive with light." 

The Other's sword glows blue--is that because it innately does so? Or in the presence of the Watch? Or in the presence of humans (Nan does say they hate things with warm blood)? Perhaps a nod to Tolkien's elven swords, glowing in the presence of the enemy. 

Seems like there's at least a chance that Dawn's described in similar language for a reason. And that it might glow red--like the Wall will change colors in different light. Or like the Others' swords. And in Jon's dream, he only mentions the sword glowing red after the wights come. 

We need more data--but it seems like there's at least a chance Martin uses similar language for a reason. And that the Others' blue glowing swords and the red sword in Jon's hand are similar in appearance. Dawn--the icy, milky white blade, alive with light.

My point was that Dawn does not glow, red or any other color. Since we only see the others around people we cannot assume anything special about their swords in relation to people either. And Jon's sword is in a dream.  Dawn is sure to be special, and so are the Daynes, once we know their house words, but I see ass tons of speculation about swords and people traveling thousands of miles over thousands of years and doing all sorts of amazing things with ZERO text in the book to support what  at its core is fan fiction. 
The description of dawn is important. It is unique in the world, and GRRM has been holding back on the words of house dayne because it will give away a huge part of the story. These books are wonderful, but since the author likes to put his magnum opus on the back burner for lots of other projects, we have half a decade or more between books and that leaved people's imaginations to run wild. 
House Dayne, keeper of the unique sword dawn, forged from the heart of a fallen star. Their seat is called Starfall, their sigil is a shooting star over a sword.
Of all of that, there is nothing to indicate the Daynes were ever in the far east, or they were prote-valyrians, or that Dawn was forged by anyone but them or will be wielded by anyone but a member of their house 

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21 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

I don't know what @Maester Debater's answer is.

But the, as you say, Ned remembers the sword as "alive with light" and like milkglass. 

"And now it begins," said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light. Game, Eddard X

While the Others' sword in the Game Prologue: 

The Other slid forward on silent feet. In its hand was a longsword like none that Will had ever seen. No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade. It was alive with moonlight , translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on. There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor.

Different narrators, both describing a sword that doesn't look like either steel or Valyrian steel swords. And both swords are "alive with light." 

The Other's sword glows blue--is that because it innately does so? Or in the presence of the Watch? Or in the presence of humans (Nan does say they hate things with warm blood)? Perhaps a nod to Tolkien's elven swords, glowing in the presence of the enemy. 

Seems like there's at least a chance that Dawn's described in similar language for a reason. And that it might glow red--like the Wall will change colors in different light. Or like the Others' swords. And in Jon's dream, he only mentions the sword glowing red after the wights come. 

We need more data--but it seems like there's at least a chance Martin uses similar language for a reason. And that the Others' blue glowing swords and the red sword in Jon's hand are similar in appearance. Dawn--the icy, milky white blade, alive with light.

My point was that Dawn does not glow, red or any other color. Since we only see the others around people we cannot assume anything special about their swords in relation to people either. And Jon's sword is in a dream.  Dawn is sure to be special, and so are the Daynes, once we know their house words, but I see ass tons of speculation about swords and people traveling thousands of miles over thousands of years and doing all sorts of amazing things with ZERO text in the book to support what  at its core is fan fiction. 
The description of dawn is important. It is unique in the world, and GRRM has been holding back on the words of house dayne because it will give away a huge part of the story. These books are wonderful, but since the author likes to put his magnum opus on the back burner for lots of other projects, we have half a decade or more between books and that leaved people's imaginations to run wild. 
House Dayne, keeper of the unique sword dawn, forged from the heart of a fallen star. Their seat is called Starfall, their sigil is a shooting star over a sword.
Of all of that, there is nothing to indicate the Daynes were ever in the far east, or they were prote-valyrians, or that Dawn was forged by anyone but them or will be wielded by anyone but a member of their house 

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4 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

My point was that Dawn does not glow, red or any other color. Since we only see the others around people we cannot assume anything special about their swords in relation to people either. And Jon's sword is in a dream.  Dawn is sure to be special, and so are the Daynes, once we know their house words, but I see ass tons of speculation about swords and people traveling thousands of miles over thousands of years and doing all sorts of amazing things with ZERO text in the book to support what  at its core is fan fiction. 
The description of dawn is important. It is unique in the world, and GRRM has been holding back on the words of house dayne because it will give away a huge part of the story. These books are wonderful, but since the author likes to put his magnum opus on the back burner for lots of other projects, we have half a decade or more between books and that leaved people's imaginations to run wild. 
House Dayne, keeper of the unique sword dawn, forged from the heart of a fallen star. Their seat is called Starfall, their sigil is a shooting star over a sword.
Of all of that, there is nothing to indicate the Daynes were ever in the far east, or they were prote-valyrians, or that Dawn was forged by anyone but them or will be wielded by anyone but a member of their house 

I freely admit that this is conjecture, but this is a forum where theories are proposed. if we didn't theorize there would be no reason to be here. As far as textual evidence, everyone interprets what they read in their own way. Evidence for the Daynes being a remnant of the Great Empire (a part of the Amethyst Empress' people) includes the Fact that there are 2 structures in the World that are fused stone, but unlike any Valyrian fused stone construct, these are the 5 Forts(Far North-East Essos), and the Hightower base( South-West Westeros, seemingly on opposite sides of the World, unless you realize the World is round and there must have been travel to the East from Essos(before the Magical Corruption that made the Seas impassable) 

Once you believe the 5Forts and Battle Isle were built by the same people it only makes sense if they travel East from Essos.  Why didn't they expand into Essos past the Bone Mountains? Am I supposed to believe that these explorers sailed West, Thousands and thousands of miles without finding anywhere they wanted to colonize until Oldtown on the Honeywine?

There are only 2 areas in the World (far East Essos and Western Westeros) that have Legends of a Sword carrying  Hero that ended the Long Night and the Ice Demons,  which sounds a lot like the Lion of Night and his Demons, also the Bloodstone Emperor was said to marry a Tiger Woman (Cotf are small, have Large Cats Eyes, Clawed hands, and a natural camouflage).

 Game of Thrones,  Daenerys IX, 

Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of Kings. In their hands were swords of Pale Fire. They had hair of Silver and hair of Gold and hair of Platinum White, and their eyes were Opal and Amethyst, Tourmaline and Jade.

This vision IMO is of the Gemstone Rulers and the Sword they carried, added to the fact that the Daynes are the only Dawn Age House to have Valyrian traits rather than those of the First Men.  No other People in the World have those distinctively Valyrian traits who dont trace their roots to Valyria.

House Dayne Pre-dates Valyria's Founding, their Familial Great Sword is thousands of years old, White in color and Alive with Light, incredibly strong and sharp, with Magical origins. 

My theory makes sense to me and ties a lot of ends together, but make of it what you will.

 

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Mostly my thoughts on Dawn Burning Red are because it its the Only Sword mentioned that is Old enough to have been Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Hero's, and Jon's dream, and a little bit of Tolkien and T.H. White.

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1 hour ago, Maester Debater said:

Snip.

I do enjoy conjecture, I am  more curious as to where and how people make the great leaps of their conjecture.  Sometimes my eyes are opened, sometimes they are not 

1 hour ago, Maester Debater said:

 Mostly my thoughts on Dawn Burning Red are because it its the Only Sword mentioned that is Old enough to have been Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Hero's, and Jon's dream, and a little bit of Tolkien and T.H. White.

We do not actually know how old Dawn is. The house is very old, and I think because their seat is called "Starfall" we assume the castle has been there since the forging of the sword so it is easy to make the assumption.  

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there r many threads on this subject that have some really great insight into this matter. sly wren even has some in her signature. i highly reccomend them

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I am well versed with Wrens theories, of which I was a part of the giant discussion in the Jon as Sword of Morning threads that was ever expanding until an update kind of took the wind out of our collective sails.

It was on these threads that I first started playing with my Colors of Magic theory as well as the idea of Dawn burning Red when near the Others.

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On 1/21/2016 at 11:54 PM, Dorian Martell said:

I do enjoy conjecture, I am  more curious as to where and how people make the great leaps of their conjecture.  Sometimes my eyes are opened, sometimes they are not 

We do not actually know how old Dawn is. The house is very old, and I think because their seat is called "Starfall" we assume the castle has been there since the forging of the sword so it is easy to make the assumption.  

We do know that VS is at most 500 years old or thereabouts, and that George said that Dawn has been carried for Thousands of years by the Daynes.

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4 hours ago, Maester Debater said:

We do know that VS is at most 500 years old or thereabouts, and that George said that Dawn has been carried for Thousands of years by the Daynes.

We do know that there are VS swords (ice) that are at least 600 years old. There are VS swords like Lady Forlorn that are as old as the Andal conquest as well, thousands of years. How long ago was the Andal conquest. Some say 6k, some say 4k, some say 2k. Which one is it? The reader doesn't know and the characters don't know. Dawn could be younger than Lady Forlorn, have you considered that? 

 

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The current Lady Forlorn is named after the original from the Andal invasion(1500-2500 B.A.C. IMO), like Ice is named after a different ancient sword. Dawn is the only one specifically stated by GRRM to be carried for 2000 + years.

Then if u factor in the Valyrian traits, with no Valyrian ancestors, the fact that we can't know what their House words are because there too spoilery, and the general mystery around the Office of Sword of the Morning\Dawn, it would be very strange if this House and Sword are not significant in the endgame.

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18 hours ago, b00gieman said:

Martin left a huge hole in the whole Last Hero story mainly why he wasn't killed to begin with.  How could a man who was supposedly looking for the children of the forest with his friend and his dog beat the Others when all his friends died and his dog and finally his blade snapped from the cold.  Then it says the Others smelled his red hot blood and started to approach him on spiders big as hounds and the story abruptly stops.  I think it stopped at that point for a reason.  The Others aren't the bad guys as it is too obvious a plot line.  I believe the true enemy to be the Children of the Forest and 8,000 years has distorted the story 180 degrees.  I will hopefully have time to get all my stuff out before the new season of TGOT starts so nobody can say I took anything from the show as to my theories.  But ASOIAF lines up too much with The Wheel of Time (TWOT) to just be coincidence.

I just published another blog article today that explains what I believe is going to happen to Jon Snow and I touched on your topic of Dawn and who will wield it and why.  Remember that the sword seems to choose the wielder and I believe that it is the soul that chooses the wielder and that for millennia the soul has always been born into a Dayne starting with the Last Hero and ending with Ser Arthur Dayne.  I believe that the scroll that Rhaegar read all those years ago told him of the events to come surrounding Jon Snow and since he and Arthur Dayne were best friends he told him the part that he was to play and he willingly sacrificed himself to the man who was Lyanna's brother.  I think that it was Howland Reed who called out Ned's name and that identified or triggered the prophecy to Arthur and he gave his life so that his soul could be reborn into Jon.

 

See my proof on my blog:  http://howthegameofthronesends.blogspot.com/2016/01/jon-snow-do-prophecies-make-man.html

There are so many similarities that you would have to just be blind not to see it or choose not to as so many do because they believe that Martin would never use so much of another story to write his.  The fallacy in that thinking is that most people even those who have read TWOT dismiss it to just coincidence and refuse to see what is right in front of them.  How could you read the following and not know it describes the event surrounding the deaths of Robert, Joffrey and soon to be Tommen.  People read that and say that it is simply not true but they can simply buy the books and read it for themselfes.  This was written years before the first book of ASOIAF was even publshed:  

The following is on my blog article:

http://howthegameofthronesends.blogspot.com/2016/01/what-will-happen-to-cersei.html

 

The two men exchanged those irritating looks, and Ragan said quietly, “You don't understand, Nynaeve. Alliandre is the fourth to sit on the Light Blessed Throne since we came to Ghealdan, and that's barely half a year. Johanin wore the crown when Masema began attracting a few crowds, but he thought Masema a harmless madman and did nothing even when the crowds grew and his nobles told him he had to put an end to it. Johanin died in a hunting accident —”
 
“Hunting accident!” Uno interjected, sneering. A hawker who happened to be looking at him dropped his tray of pins and needles. “Not unless he didn't know one bloody end of a flaming boar spear from the other. Flaming southlanders and their flaming Game of Houses!” 

 

“And Ellizellesucceeded,” Ragan took up. “She had the army dispersing the crowds, until finally there was a pitched battle and it was the army that was chased off.”
 
“Bloody poor excuse for soldiers,” Uno muttered. She was going to have to speak to him about his language again.

 

Ragan nodded agreement, but went on with what he had been saying. “They say Ellizelle took poison after that, but however she died, she was replaced by Teresia, who lasted a full ten days after her coronation, just until she had a chance to send two thousand soldiers against ten thousand folk who had gathered to hear Masema outsideJehannah.

 

 
Masema was a religious fanatic following the Dragon Reborn.  So using TWOT as a guide it would seem that Tommen will be killed by sending his armies against a religious fanatic who outnumber him badly.  Wait Cersei already put that in place when she brought back the Faith Militantand all his Sparrows.  The TV show has already shown us a glimpse of this when Margaery refers to the Sparrows as fanatics during her converstation with Tommen.  Tommen hints at this when he says he will use his armies to free Margaery in his converstation with Cersei.

 

 

I have posted many times about the Cotf being the actual Others, from Nan we hear they hate iron and fire and the touch of the sun. Cotf use no metal, the fires in the cave are only lit because Bran is there, and the when we first see "Leaf" it is after the last light is gone and Night has Fallen. The wights attack starts during dusk, its not until all the Light is gone that Leaf appears.

I think the Pact ended the war for the Dawn, the Cotf were exiled beyond the Wall and had to pay tribute of 100 dragonglass daggers a year. 

It's either the Cotf are using the Weirs, or the Weirs are using the Cotf, I lean more towards the WEIR being a single consciousness in control of every creature ever to connect to it.

I also have a theory that the Rat Cook story actually represents the Weirwood and Cotf, Giant White Rat,(Bet it has Red Eyes and Mouth.) That consumes it own young,(Children of the FOREST.)  

BTW, in the Kitchen at the Night Fort, there is a Weirwood.

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3 minutes ago, Maester Debater said:

I have posted many times about the Cotf being the actual Others, from Nan we hear they hate iron and fire and the touch of the sun. Cotf use no metal, the fires in the cave are only lit because Bran is there, and the when we first see "Leaf" it is after the last light is gone and Night has Fallen. The wights attack starts during dusk, its not until all the Light is gone that Leaf appears.

I think the Pact ended the war for the Dawn, the Cotf were exiled beyond the Wall and had to pay tribute of 100 dragonglass daggers a year. 

It's either the Cotf are using the Weirs, or the Weirs are using the Cotf, I lean more towards the WEIR being a single consciousness in control of every creature ever to connect to it.

I also have a theory that the Rat Cook story actually represents the Weirwood and Cotf, Giant White Rat,(Bet it has Red Eyes and Mouth.) That consumes it own young,(Children of the FOREST.)  

BTW, in the Kitchen at the Night Fort, there is a Weirwood.

I had never seen it presented like that before, idk if I agree with your theory but it is very interesting

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Because it's all open to interpretation, I end up looking at any and all possibilities, but I have always had a bit of mistrust when it comes to the Cotf and the Creepy trees they worship.

My first theories regarding the Cotf were based on the similarities between the Weir\Undying Tree, the cults based on worship of them, the Warlocks\Cotf, and the Greenseers\Undying Ones, and the way that Nans Long Night story seemed to represent the Cotf as much as the WW's.

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1 hour ago, Maester Debater said:

The current Lady Forlorn is named after the original from the Andal invasion(1500-2500 B.A.C. IMO), like Ice is named after a different ancient sword. Dawn is the only one specifically stated by GRRM to be carried for 2000 + years.

Then if u factor in the Valyrian traits, with no Valyrian ancestors, the fact that we can't know what their House words are because there too spoilery, and the general mystery around the Office of Sword of the Morning\Dawn, it would be very strange if this House and Sword are not significant in the endgame.

Have you read the world book? The "current" Lady Forlorn is the only one. 

“And though the singers say the High King slew foes by the score, in the end he, too, was slain. Some say Ser Artys killed him, whilst others name Lord Ruthermont, or Luceon Templeton, the Knight of Ninestars. The Corbrays of Heart’s Home have always insisted that it was Ser Jaime Corbray who dealt the mortal blow, and for proof they point to Lady Forlorn, reclaimed for House Corbray after the battle.              ”Excerpt From: George R. R. Martin, Elio Garcia & Linda Antonsson. “The World of Ice & Fire.” 
 

There is no mention of a "current" sword named after an ancient one like the bronze sword of the starks of old as the namesake of the current VS blade. to quote the highlander "There can be only one"

I am not saying anything for sure about dawn, but really, no one can because we do not actually know anything about the sword other than it is superior to a regular sword 

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8 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

Have you read the world book? The "current" Lady Forlorn is the only one. 

“And though the singers say the High King slew foes by the score, in the end he, too, was slain. Some say Ser Artys killed him, whilst others name Lord Ruthermont, or Luceon Templeton, the Knight of Ninestars. The Corbrays of Heart’s Home have always insisted that it was Ser Jaime Corbray who dealt the mortal blow, and for proof they point to Lady Forlorn, reclaimed for House Corbray after the battle.              ”Excerpt From: George R. R. Martin, Elio Garcia & Linda Antonsson. “The World of Ice & Fire.” 
 

There is no mention of a "current" sword named after an ancient one like the bronze sword of the starks of old as the namesake of the current VS blade. to quote the highlander "There can be only one"

I am not saying anything for sure about dawn, but really, no one can because we do not actually know anything about the sword other than it is superior to a regular sword 

No its not the original. From the Wiki Regarding Lady Forlorn:

In The World of Ice and Fire, Lady Forlorn is described to be a Valyrian steel sword. It has been confirmed that "Valyrian steel" should have been removed from the description.

Robar wielded this Lady Forlorn during the Battle of the Seven Stars, using it to kill Torgold Tollett and a decoy dressed as Ser Artys Arryn. The Corbrays claim that Ser Jaime Corbray slew Robar in the battle, allowing them to reclaim the original Lady Forlorn.[5]

Original Ice is never said to be a Bronze sword either. I like Dawn as Lightbringer because it is the Only sword stated by GRRM to be at least 2000 years old, and because of the mystery surrounding the blade and the way its only bestowed upon Worthy knights of House Dayne. Dawn is the most mysterious and prestigious Sword, IMO, that is why it is my choice as the likeliest Lightbringer.

All the burning Red and Flashing White stuff is just my theory and could be way off, but I still really enjoy the theory and hope its true, it makes a lot of sense to me, anyway.

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