Richard Morgan + Netflix = ALTERED CARBON TV series

[Bran the Voyeur]

Up to episode 5 so far. Despite the huge budget of special effects and great action, the series has a huge anchor dragging it down. The whole changing of the Envoys as Totalitarian State World Breakers into Dudes Training in a Forest was very underwhelming. Not to mention they are all destroyed, so how badass can they have really been? It also takes away the nuance and self-loathing from his character. Dumbed Down Kovacs.

[AncalagonTheBlack]

The Critics Must Be Crazy: 'Altered Carbon' Is A Terrific New Netflix Original

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Time's Eliana Dockterman has one of the most puzzling reviews of the show, writing that "Despite its futuristic setting, the show's treatment of race, gender and class feels downright retrograde...this is a Bond-like pastiche that delivers the sex and violence of 007 without any of the style or substance."

But this is preposterous. Altered Carbon has an insanely diverse cast. It features several incredibly strong women who are Asian, black and Hispanic. It has a Muslim character in a romantic relationship with a Hispanic woman and in one scene they speak back and forth in Spanish and Arabic.

I must admit, reading Dockterman's review I can only assume she stopped watching the show after an episode or two and made up her mind about the rest, filling in whatever blanks she liked with whatever assumptions she was running with. Given that she praises Star Trek Discovery for its diverse casting and then fails to notice that Altered Carbon is at least as diverse, if not more so, I don't think I'm wrong. She also complains that the show fails to examine the ethics of never-ending life, when in reality this is the entire point of the show.How does a critic miss such a vital narrative detail? Truly puzzling.

Indeed, Dockterman seems more interested in the "problematic" issue of "white-washing" than she does in giving the show a fair shake. Even though the show is based on a book about an Asian man sleeved in a white man's body, and even though the show spends a great deal of time with the Asian version of Kovacs, we are led to believe that it is somehow racist and "problematic." She even dismisses the show's powerful female characters as being thinly developed and generic, apparently not having watched enough of the season to see how their stories play out.

 

Another very positive review from Vox's Todd VanDerWerff:

Netflix’s Altered Carbon is TV’s raddest science fiction show

[BigFatCoward]

I'm on Night duty tonight and have put the whole season on my tablet, is this the sort of thing i'd be wasting and should wait to watch it on a proper TV with surround sound.

[Mexal]

11 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

I'm on Night duty tonight and have put the whole season on my tablet, is this the sort of thing i'd be wasting and should wait to watch it on a proper TV with surround sound.

I don't think it's necessary but it does look really good and is much better on a proper tv. Doubt it changes your enjoyment though.

[Werthead]

7 hours ago, akh said:

That's weird, my biggest issue with the show was the actress that played Ortega. More specifically that I felt she didn't do a very good job. The dialogue had some mumbling and otherwise wonky parts, but that didn't bother me much. Past the first episode I didn't really like the soundtrack either, but that's really a non-issue.

I thought she was very good. She had a sort of barely-concealed frustrated rage thing going on that seemed right for the character and the genre (even if you don't entirely buy she'd make it through training and a 10-year+ career by that point if she's completely contemptuous of office politics, but that's a cop trope for you).

[Bran the Voyeur]

Ortega was terrible in the first episode, but the actress toned it down considerably in the following episodes. Altogether, not a great choice for Ortega, merely average.

[karaddin]

I loved Ortega so mileage obviously varies on that one.

What I couldn't remember from the book and wanted to check was

Spoiler

How much of the end game was changed? I know Kawahara's role was changed - she's not even his sister in the book is she? I thought I remembered Quell herself being the end game opponent, but really couldn't remember details. I have read all 3 books but not recently.

BtV - there is some conflation of envoys going on in usage of the term in the show, but your complaint about Kovac's back story is at least partially addressed in the 7th episode.

[divica]

Just saw the 10 eps.

Spoiler

Sincerely, I can t decide if I liked the show or not. 

The arc of the black girl that was traumatized for example was awfull (and I mean the story was really bad and completly hated the resolution).

The cop as some have said had her ups and downs when she appeared a real person or some spanish comic book character.

I liked kovac and the black army dude. They always felt real. However I really don t know what is so special about the envoys because kovac's skill changed from episode to episode. In one ep he is seeing dudes through walls, in the other he is seing fireflies leading him somewhere, in others he is surprise attacked and on the whole he didn t seem much better than the cop. 

are the books better than the show?

 

[Corvinus85]

I just watched episode 5. I think episode 4 was the best so far, but ep. 5 ended with a great scene.

It reminded me of... 

Spoiler

The Untouchables, but of course with the action pack that this show has.

 

[Werthead]

ETA: WTF is going on with the formatting?

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I liked kovac and the black army dude. They always felt real. However I really don t know what is so special about the envoys because kovac's skill changed from episode to episode. In one ep he is seeing dudes through walls, in the other he is seing fireflies leading him somewhere, in others he is surprise attacked and on the whole he didn t seem much better than the cop. 

The "seeing people through walls" skill I believe was a product of his training and possibly the neurachem and other abilities in his original body (and when he comes back to it on Harlan's World), which his Ryker body didn't have access to. Or at least that's how I took that. It might be that the crowded nature of Bay City made the ability quite useless in most circumstances (i.e. people could sneak up on him in the hotel because there's hundreds of people passing the hotel at any moment).

Good to see gainful employment for many other SFF actors:

Peter Woodward (Galen in Babylon 5 and Crusade) was the host on the floating space station thing at the end.

Tahmoh Penikett (Helo in BSG) was the crazy Russian gangster who got taken out in the hotel and also (sometimes) his clone-sleeved brother.

Dichen Lachman (Reileen) was obviously in Dollhouse, Agents of SHIELD and The 100.

Adam Busch (Mickey) was Warren in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Matt Frewer (Carnage) was Dr. Leekie on Orphan Black but is most immortal for playing Max Headroom.

[Mladen]

8 hours ago, Corvinus said:

I just watched episode 5. I think episode 4 was the best so far, but ep. 5 ended with a great scene.

Same here... I enjoyed Episode 4 the most... And I needed Episode 4 in terms of Kinnaman's acting chops. Now, I convinced that he was the right man for the role.

[Relic]

32 minutes ago, Risto said:

And I needed Episode 4 in terms of Kinnaman's acting chops. Now, I convinced that he was the right man for the role.

Yeah he's a good actor, but it's hard to emote in front of the endless green screens this show has to employ. I think that's why some of the acting comes off as stiff and wooden, honestly. 2 episodes in and I'm liking it, although less than I enjoyed the book (which i read a decade ago). 

[KiDisaster]

I've only watched the first two episodes but I'm enjoying it so far. The only issue I've got is how rushed a lot of the exposition feels, particularly the back story, but that's pretty universal with book adaptations. They got a lot of info to get out in only 10 hours. 

I liked Kinnaman a lot in the killing but he hasn't impressed me much here yet. Hopefully that changes. The rest of the cast has been great though. 

[WarGalley]

Two episodes in and so far it's standard Netflix good not great. I'm not a fan of Ortega's character and I can't tell if it's the dialogue, writing or the actress. She comes off as whiny and inept and seems to constantly be undermined as a cop by other cops.  Completely agree that Joel Kinnamon comes off as REALLY stiff in some scenes. Never considered the green screen effect on his acting which would explain some of it.

Episode 2 spoilers:

Spoiler

The scene where he impersonates Lizzie's mom while interviewing the stripper was horrible. He convinced me in no way that he was a woman much less a grieving mother trying to find her child. They wanted to show his people manipulating abilities in that scene but the dialogue was clunky and they just didn't pull it off for me. 

It's also been awhile since I read the book and I know Kovacs has an enhanced body and special forces level martial abilities but I don't remember him being quite the super soldier they're portraying him thus far. I think that might just be my memory though.

[Rippounet]

Good stuff,

I had issue with pacing at first. But I guess that was because I underestimated the importance of the flashbacks.
Then I had my doubts about some of the actors. Ortega seemed over the top somehow, and even the main character was a bit bland in my eyes.
Around the middle of the season I had some small-ish issue with the scenario ; after the main intrigue seemed resolved (briefly) I  thought it was a bit underwhelming.

When the sister showed up I understood everything and was able to enjoy a well-constructed albeit slightly predictable ending.

I understand why the critics find it hard to judge this show. The visuals and setting are amazing. But it takes time to understand some bits of the plot at first. In a similar way, the characterization of Tak and Ortega takes time to like but make more sense as the plot unfolds.
Some scenes (the duels) are a bit cheesy.
But once everything comes together it's easier to forgive the show some of its initial problems. I'm even tempted to say they make sense in retrospect.

All in all my problem was that I didn't expect the plot to be a detective story. I thought it was more of a political intrigue. In the end, the politics are more of a background thing. Once you realize what the show is it's much easier to appreciate it.

It's funny I haven't read the books. I hadn't even seen any trailers or heard of the show. I just stumbled upon it by accident.
It ended up being a pleasant surprise.

[divica]

11 hours ago, Werthead said:

  Hide contents

ETA: WTF is going on with the formatting?

The "seeing people through walls" skill I believe was a product of his training and possibly the neurachem and other abilities in his original body (and when he comes back to it on Harlan's World), which his Ryker body didn't have access to. Or at least that's how I took that. It might be that the crowded nature of Bay City made the ability quite useless in most circumstances (i.e. people could sneak up on him in the hotel because there's hundreds of people passing the hotel at any moment).

Good to see gainful employment for many other SFF actors:

Peter Woodward (Galen in Babylon 5 and Crusade) was the host on the floating space station thing at the end.

Tahmoh Penikett (Helo in BSG) was the crazy Russian gangster who got taken out in the hotel and also (sometimes) his clone-sleeved brother.

Dichen Lachman (Reileen) was obviously in Dollhouse, Agents of SHIELD and The 100.

Adam Busch (Mickey) was Warren in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Matt Frewer (Carnage) was Dr. Leekie on Orphan Black but is most immortal for playing Max Headroom.

Spoiler

I don t know if you have seen the entire series but in ep 7 or 8 kavacs (while in ryker's body) was able to see someone moving though the metalic door of a car.

My initial take was that when his life was in real danger he could see the danger through objects, however it was a really unexplored phenomenon...

In regards to the fireflies I have no idea why they appeared then and in no other ocasion... kovacs was investigating things the entire season and the fireflies appeared once...

On the other hand the murmors we hear sometimes were pretty well done in my opinion. But the whole 6 sense disapeared a lot of times...

 

[Sheep the Evicted]

Couldn't finish it. Kovacs and the Envoy are unrecognizable and if you ignore them completely and just try to take it as just another sci-fi show then its just a hodgepodge of formulaic stories we have all seen before.  Further uncharitable negatives include:

 

The music sucks.

The casting of Mariam Bancroft really sucks.

Worst of all though the action sucks. This one is really inexcusable as they tried to dumb it down and let the visuals carry the show. Its been 3 years since Daredevil season 1; we know TV shows can do top tier action sequences, even on a much smaller budget, so why was this so plodding ? I really don't know who they were aiming at with this show.

 

edit - just read spoilers, and they are stupider than anything I can imagine. Thank god I bailed out!

 

 

[Spring Bass]

I haven't read the book yet, but I enjoyed the TV show once I got about 3 episodes in. The first two episodes left me a little cold, but after that it was addictive and I binge-watched it. 

I think it's best if you just sort of roll with the pulpy cyberpunk SF aspect of it, including the cheese and the action. Some of the best parts of it were the weird-ass humor stuff, especially everything with Poe. 

 

[briantw]

4 minutes ago, Fall Bass said:

I haven't read the book yet, but I enjoyed the TV show once I got about 3 episodes in. The first two episodes left me a little cold, but after that it was addictive and I binge-watched it. 

I think it's best if you just sort of roll with the pulpy cyberpunk SF aspect of it, including the cheese and the action. Some of the best parts of it were the weird-ass humor stuff, especially everything with Poe. 

I'm on episode six and thus far Poe is really the only major change from the books that I've thought has been pretty successful.  I was fine with them changing a particular torture scene as well for the obvious reasons, but I don't really think that change was either good or bad, as it didn't fundamentally change the source material in a meaningful way.  

Other changes have been more iffy.  Overall, though, I'm enjoying it thus far.  It's not amazing, but it's fun.

[Kalbear]

This has to be up there with the largest amount of boobs in any show in history. Just...so many boobs. I guess the casting department did good, because the boobs were diverse and multi-ethnic.