The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I would like to propose to the moderates a split of this thread, into one that Rants in general and one that is only Rants about the quality of the show. Frankly I am tired of the same posters posting about "sexist this" and "misogynist that". First of all it's just beating and dead horse and that's not an interesting discussion, and secondly it's not a conversation that really interest me anyway. Maybe GOT is sexist and misogynists as you say, maybe it's not, frankly, I'm more interested in it's discussing its (gradually declining) quality as a TV show and attempt at story telling. Sexism in that regard is only a side issue. A story can be brilliant and still be sexist, a story can be non-sexist and be a boring piece of swill. Lastly, I am uncomfortable with the character attacks on the creators of show. Now I am fine with calling them hacks and poor writers who don't understand character motivation. Those are discussions about the quality of their work, but the sexist/misogynist stuff is too casually thrown around to in discussion of them as people and again I find that both unfair and much too presumptuous, since none of the people throwing around those charges actually know them personally. Again, I don't begrudge the sexism discussion if some people want to continue have it, I just feel there is another discussion to be had that some other people (including myself) would like to participate in, and can't seem to because everything has to be dragged back to the sexism discussion. Therefore in light of that perhaps a splitting of this thread in called for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhail Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 13 minutes ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said: I would like to propose to the moderates a split of this thread, into one that Rants in general and one that is only Rants about the quality of the show. Frankly I am tired of the same posters posting about "sexist this" and "misogynist that". First of all it's just beating and dead horse and that's not an interesting discussion, and secondly it's not a conversation that really interest me anyway. Maybe GOT is sexist and misogynists as you say, maybe it's not, frankly, I'm more interested in it's discussing its (gradually declining) quality as a TV show and attempt at story telling. Sexism in that regard is only a side issue. A story can be brilliant and still be sexist, a story can be non-sexist and be a boring piece of swill. Lastly, I am uncomfortable with the character attacks on the creators of show. Now I am fine with calling them hacks and poor writers who don't understand character motivation. Those are discussions about the quality of their work, but the sexist/misogynist stuff is too casually thrown around to in discussion of them as people and again I find that both unfair and much too presumptuous, since none of the people throwing around those charges actually know them personally. Again, I don't begrudge the sexism discussion if some people want to continue have it, I just feel there is another discussion to be had that some other people (including myself) would like to participate in, and can't seem to because everything has to be dragged back to the sexism discussion. Therefore in light of that perhaps a splitting of this thread in called for. Id like to say that for me even when im getting a tad ridiculous with what i say about D&D its sarcastic attacks on their abilities as writers and misunderstanding of Asoiaf's many themes and characters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Well, if we just stick to the thread topic, which is people say what they dislike, and there's no debate, that works fine. There's also a great ignore feature... We don't have to agree with everyone else's rant. My chief rant is that the writing of the show is sexist. I have zero interest in divining intent, nor the showrunners as individuals. This article puts my concerns well: Quote This racial-sexual problem isn't unique to Game of Thrones. It's apparently a truth universally acknowledged by cable television writers that the rates of nonconsensual sex and mindless violence rise exponentially the further back in time one goes. The rationale, or even excuse, that shows with this philosophy offer is that the kind of racism or sexism they portray is historically accurate (never mind, of course, that Game of Thrones takes place in a fictional universe). In other words, these shows depict women who are treated like disposable objects and ethnic or racial “others” who wantonly destroy life because that's the way it was. But historical accuracy and fear of anachronism are not good excuses for representing racial and sexual politics in the way that Game of Thrones does. Deadwood began its run with some similarly shocking occurrences of sexual violence and racial caricature. But that show also offered blistering and uncomfortable critiques of the culture that enabled and encouraged those acts, and it offered layered portraits of women and ethnic and racial minorities who survived and resisted that dismal age. There's no evidence of such critique so far in Game of Thrones. Every act of brutality, every assaulted woman, every exoticized barbarian is presented for the delectation of the audience. No prostitute appears on screen without her bosom already exposed, no transgressive sex act occurs without the frame of luxuriant tapestries or the glow of moonlight upon it. This show's historical misogyny and racism are purely aesthetic, and that's a problem we should hope this series works out on the double. These issues would not be excusable, but the viewer would have perhaps more patience with their resolution if this series showed even a remote curiosity about its own characters or a sense of adventure or energy in the telling of its narratives. Co-creator David Benioff, before making his way to television, wrote the screenplay for Wolfgang Peterson's Troy. That film is fine as a historical epic, a rollicking action film, and a beefcake showcase for Brad Pitt, but as an adaptation of Homer's The Iliad, it's puzzling and unfortunately ham-fisted. Eschewing all that makes that epic poem so enrapturing (the politics of the gods, the nearly supernatural transcendence of warriors in battle, the ruminative pacing, the narrative incompleteness, the sense of time and exhaustion), Benioff produced a barebones version of The Iliad built of its least interesting parts. The same lowest-common-denominator adaptation theory seems to animate Benioff and Weiss's Game of Thrones. The show, for instance, does not in any way attempt to import the narrative innovation that defines Martin's book series... http://www.slantmagazine.com/tv/review/game-of-thrones-season-one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Deep breaths, everyone. It is a loooooooooooooooooooooong offseason, instead of trying to tell everyone how they may or may not criticize the show, why don't we all just remember we are in the same boat and calmly await our next serving of Rant worthy material. And, that's all I have time for, LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said: Deep breaths, everyone. It is a loooooooooooooooooooooong offseason, instead of trying to tell everyone how they may or may not criticize the show, why don't we all just remember we are in the same boat and calmly await our next serving of Rant worthy material. And, that's all I have time for, LOL Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhail Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 18 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said: Deep breaths, everyone. It is a loooooooooooooooooooooong offseason, instead of trying to tell everyone how they may or may not criticize the show, why don't we all just remember we are in the same boat and calmly await our next serving of Rant worthy material. And, that's all I have time for, LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Ruhail said: Who the eff is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I just had the worst idea ever. What if they do the same to Sandor as they did to Brienne? He has the choice between saving Sansa or killing his brother and he chooses Cleganebowl... (I am not really certain how this would be geographical possible but it is still written by D&D. No! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 9 minutes ago, Tijgy said: I just had the worst idea ever. What if they do the same to Sandor as they did to Brienne? He has the choice between saving Sansa or killing his brother and he chooses Cleganebowl... (I am not really certain how this would be geographical possible but it is still written by D&D. No! NOooooooooo!!!!!!!!! I don't think they will. I still think they set something up between them. I think the reason she never chose Brienne to guard her, why this was always a miss, is because Sandor is Sansa's knight. And they know that damn well. They said a while back, "the developing relationship between these two... much more to come" and even talked about it being a good thing Rory was tall enough to play against Sophie (that was on the commentary for seasons 1 and 2). And more. I think they are just maxing out the titillation potential of a young female character, using her for various plots, and eventually will get there. It's an empty, meaningless way to tell a story, but that's Game of Thrones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 5 minutes ago, Tijgy said: I just had the worst idea ever. What if they do the same to Sandor as they did to Brienne? He has the choice between saving Sansa or killing his brother and he chooses Cleganebowl... (I am not really certain how this would be geographical possible but it is still written by D&D. No! Considering the fact that I fully expect some kind of Cleganebowl with Sansa present to happen in the books as well... The idea is not as far-fetched as you might think. But in the books I expect Sandor to defend her against the pawn of Cersei. In the show... well, I am fairly certain show!Sandow is going to be all like "Who the fuck is Sansa again?" Since they can't possibly meet up, he won't remember her, like everyone in the show. @Le Cygne: Now that's just wishful thinking on your part. A non-exploitative relationship on Game of Thrones? Who are you kidding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, Toth said: Considering the fact that I fully expect some kind of Cleganebowl with Sansa present to happen in the books as well... The idea is not as far-fetched as you might think. But in the books I expect Sandor to defend her against the pawn of Cersei. In the show... well, I am fairly certain show!Sandow is going to be all like "Who the fuck is Sansa again?" Since they can't possibly meet up, he won't remember her, like everyone in the show. @Le Cygne: Now that's just wishful thinking on your part. A non-exploitative relationship on Game of Thrones? Who are you kidding? I know, they suck, and whatever they do is going to suck, but I spotted a lot of setup. And one thing they made very clear, he loves her. Look at this face: http://romancingthecage.tumblr.com/post/89453434156 And they did this, too: http://romancingthecage.tumblr.com/post/90157713456 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davros Seaworth Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 As far as I can tell, distance makes no difference in the show, so if they really want to repeat Brienne with Sandor they will. I'm still worried about Roose, will be very angry if Ramsay outlives him. Also, do you think it is really telling that the only new major player is the most Evil (Euron), they kill of plenty of 'good' guys/girls (emphasis on the latter), but they only bring in new villains. Not that it would make sense if Arianne and the Griffs suddenly appear, but since when did something have to make sense to appear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 And this one: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davros Seaworth Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: I know, they suck, and whatever they do is going to suck, but I spotted a lot of setup. And one thing they made very clear, he loves her. Look at this face: http://romancingthecage.tumblr.com/post/89453434156 And they did this, too: http://romancingthecage.tumblr.com/post/90157713456 I'm beginning to wonder if this is accidental? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Yeah, but in the same vein Tysha was a thing for four seasons and then... BAM, never happened. Who cares for continuity anyway? Only stupid booksnobs... I have the greatest respect for Rory's acting and the way he at least tried to act like Sandor even if the Ds did their best to rid him of all traits that made his character unique and replaced his lines with nihilistic murder-glorifications. And while I do believe that in the books Sandor will get his chance to act like a shining knight, even if only for a single moment, I have absolutely zero hope anything like this is going to happen in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairGrowsBack Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 14 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: NOooooooooo!!!!!!!!! I don't think they will. I still think they set something up between them. I think the reason she never chose Brienne to guard her, why this was always a miss, is because Sandor is Sansa's knight. And they know that damn well. They said a while back, "the developing relationship between these two... much more to come" and even talked about it being a good thing Rory was tall enough to play against Sophie (that was on the commentary for seasons 1 and 2). And more. I think they are just maxing out the titillation potential of a young female character, using her for various plots, and eventually will get there. It's an empty, meaningless way to tell a story, but that's Game of Thrones. yeah I also had high hopes for the Jaime/Brienne romance...I don't want to see you hurt, Le Cygne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Toth said: Yeah, but in the same vein Tysha was a thing for four seasons and then... BAM, never happened. Who cares for continuity anyway? Only stupid booksnobs... I have the greatest respect for Rory's acting and the way he at least tried to act like Sandor even if the Ds did their best to rid him of all traits that made his character unique and replaced his lines with nihilistic murder-glorifications. And while I do believe that in the books Sandor will get his chance to act like a shining knight, even if only for a single moment, I have absolutely zero hope anything like this is going to happen in the show. I have zero hope the show will do anything well, but I saw way too much setup, there was even some last season. They are going to tack it on because it's in the books, it's too big to not go there, is my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 The lack of Jaime/Brienne is really painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, HairGrowsBack said: yeah I also had high hopes for the Jaime/Brienne romance...I don't want to see you hurt, Le Cygne They'll go there with Jaime and Brienne, too. Now I'm not saying it's going to be good, mind you... But I spotted a lot of Beauty and Beast hints sprinkled throughout, for both stories. Some examples from last season, they had Brienne call herself a beast. And Bronn hinted at Sandor as a beast in the grave digging scene. And Super Ramsay said he expected a bearded beast and got a beauty (yes, I hate that they used him to hint at SanSan). Lots more the seasons before, they get creative with these little things, while they are destroying the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairGrowsBack Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, Tijgy said: The lack of Jaime/Brienne is really painful. Do not despair, though ! We may get some Larry/Brienne the thug interactions...in which she kills him for being such a dumbass ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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