Rant and Rave Without Repercussions - Includes Season 6 Spoilers

[kissdbyfire]

1 minute ago, Rhodan said:

Theories aren´t the facts but fans created them for a reason. And let´s not forgot that there is very little to expect Jon will be similar to his old self. Effects of r´hllorian resurrections were allready established and he might lost even more of himself becouse of the warging.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by that. There are plenty of theories that are backed by the text, and many more that aren't, and all were created by fans. 

We don't know if he'll be resurrected via Red Rahloo or not. Heck, we don't even know if he's dead dead, and not just injured. We may each favour one of these options as what we *think* will happen, but at this point it's all speculation. 

But the idea that Jon will come back as a ruthless power-hungry half zombie is as  unbelievable to me as him joining the silent sisters. 

[Rhodan]

4 minutes ago, HairGrowsBack said:

Again, my main beef isn't whether it will happen or not. The issue is that the show has empty shells for characters (at best), and that I'm pretty sure nothing has led an will lead Jon into becoming like that. But everyone will think it's badass, so who cares.

Yes, the show is cheaper version of the books. That much is obvious. And when we are speaking about empty shells that´s kinda what Jon Snow (even in the books) always has been. He is so much stereotypical fantasy hero that it´s not illogical to expect Martin to do "something entirely different" once again. That the books will do that better then the show? Well, I´ve made my peace with that a long time ago.  

[HairGrowsBack]

1 minute ago, Rhodan said:

Yes, the show is cheaper version of the books. That much is obvious. And when we are speaking about empty shells that´s kinda what Jon Snow (even in the books) always has been. He is so much stereotypical fantasy hero that it´s not illogical to expect Martin to do "something entirely different" once again. That the books will do that better then the show? Well, I´ve made my peace with that a long time ago.  

I'm not the biggest Jon Snow fan and I agree he doesn't really stand out personality-wise, but I disagree he doesn't have depth in the books. His bastard complex and envy is well depicted, and his struggle to not lash out at the 'injustice' that is his life and actually trying (and eventually failing) to do the right thing is a compelling read and seems rich enough to me.

[Rhodan]

5 minutes ago, HairGrowsBack said:

I'm not the biggest Jon Snow fan and I agree he doesn't really stand out personality-wise, but I disagree he doesn't have depth in the books. His bastard complex and envy is well depicted, and his struggle to not lash out at the 'injustice' that is his life and actually trying (and eventually failing) to do the right thing is a compelling read and seems rich enough to me.

Ok, that might have been kinda harsh. But what I was trying to say was that Martin seems to be giving him him pretty cliché and goodie-goodie traits which in retrospect seem to exist precisely becouse he wants to use this figure in more untraditional way. It´s possibly  Eddard/Robb/Quentyn situation all over again, expect this time it will be not death, but making him something incredibly darker. 

[Le Cygne]

Ah, I was looking for this:

Quote

I went to an appearance by GRRM and Michelle Fairley in Melbourne tonight; asked GRRM a question during the book signing at the end. He was signing my DVD cover (sorry people, Google Books!) and I asked whether he puts any codes into his books because people are talking about them. He suddenly looked interested and said "What kind of codes?" It was a fast paced book signing, so I really only had a few moments to explain. I said that it could be something like the Lord Commander's raven screaming "Corn! Corn! Corn!" (verbally saying the exclamation marks) which would mean somebody is going to die (no time to explain the future vs present tense). He said a very definite "No", then commented that people must have found lots of evidence and joked that if its there its accidental.

 

[HairGrowsBack]

4 minutes ago, Rhodan said:

Ok, that might have been kinda harsh. But what I was trying to say was that Martin seems to be giving him him pretty cliché and goodie-goodie traits which in retrospect seems is precisely becouse he wants to use this figure in more untraditional way. It´s possibly  Eddard/Robb/Quentyn situation all over again, exect this time it will be not death, but making him something incredibly darker. 

It might be so. I think he'll definitely get a darker shade of grey, but I doubt he'll do a 180°. It also depends a lot on the reaction of the NW, but I agree that the betrayal will sting big time.

[Le Cygne]

1 hour ago, HairGrowsBack said:

It might be so. I think he'll definitely get a darker shade of grey, but I doubt he'll do a 180°. It also depends a lot on the reaction of the NW, but I agree that the betrayal will sting big time.

Agreed. I think it will be more like Beric, he's still focused on the mission Robert gave him, but everything surrounding that is muddled.

I also think Jon's last words, while about love for Arya, are also about defending herself, he was worried about her, and thought stick them with the pointy end before that, too.

(Ditto for Sandor, sobbing about the pretty little bird, he was worried about what happened to her, too, and blamed himself for leaving her.)

One thing is for sure in the books, Arya with the revenge list is going to put the men who stabbed Jon on the top of the list. Show? They are all just interchangeable units.

But a man's dying thoughts mean a lot, in life as in fiction, and I think if we want a clue for the books, it will be in his dying thoughts. And it's often about regret, and love.

(Of course, in the show, Jon said "Olly." After being hoodwinked about Coldhands Daario Benjen. Then again, Olly would drive a man to becoming a monster, for sure.)

[SeanF]

15 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

This reminds me of what Toth said earlier, they played up killing for Sandor, and did the same for Jaime. They took it literally and to an extreme. In that video Benioff said Jaime loves killing more than anything. There was actually quite a bit of bravado going on with these two men (aka bullshitting) that was covering up soft spots inside. They don't say what they really mean.

So they had Larry kill Jory personally, skewering him through the eye (in the books, he rode off and his men had a skirmish with Ned's men). And kill his cousin, who he tried to protect in the books. And then tell Carol he MURDERED people to get back to her! And now there's a trebuchet, no doubt, this extends to baby killing! Oh, and he wants to split St. Tyrion in two.

It's odd that they don't get the subtext, or maybe they get it, but just prefer to go with a surface read, because it's more horrible that way. Basically the whole show has turned into a horror story.

The problem with actually catapulting babies into Riverrun is that it could come over as  comic, like Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

[kissdbyfire]

4 minutes ago, SeanF said:

The problem with actually catapulting babies into Riverrun is that it could come over as  comic, like Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

 

But isn't the show already hilarious by now? 

[Le Cygne]

4 minutes ago, SeanF said:

The problem with actually catapulting babies into Riverrun is that it could come over as  comic, like Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Run away! At least they could substitute farm animals for babies.

[SeanF]

3 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

 

But isn't the show already hilarious by now? 

 

3 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Run away! At least they could substitute farm animals for babies.

The Blackfish defying Jaime with the words:-

"I don’t want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough water! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!  I wave my private parts at your aunties."

[Le Cygne]

4 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

But isn't the show already hilarious by now? 

Always look on the bright side of life... Wait, the show doesn't go there, either.

Just gloom, despair, and agony. Deep dark depression, excessive misery. If it weren't for bad luck, they'd have no luck at all...

[Le Cygne]

5 minutes ago, SeanF said:

The Blackfish defying Jaime with the words:-

"I don’t want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough water! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!  I wave my private parts at your aunties."

That would be so much more entertaining! And I'm rather dreading what they will do to Edmure (who I now fondly call Frank, as in Outlander Frank), but I'm sure Tobias will make the best of it.

[TepidHands]

3 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

That would be so much more entertaining! And I'm rather dreading what they will do to Edmure (who I now fondly call Frank, as in Outlander Frank), but I'm sure Tobias will make the best of it.

Well, since they didn't write in a Lyn Corbray and his supposed penchant for pederasty in the Vale, and had such smashing success with Meryn Trant the girl-beater, and have seen Tobias in "Outlander," perhaps they'll rewrite Edmure as Black Jack Tully. Since they're all interchangeable parts, and all their dialog goes to Littlefinger.

[SeanF]

25 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

13 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

That would be so much more entertaining! And I'm rather dreading what they will do to Edmure (who I now fondly call Frank, as in Outlander Frank), but I'm sure Tobias will make the best of it.

 

I remember once having a fit of the giggles, when watching a programme about the Crusaders, which resembled Monty Python.

One section of the programme  focused on the followers of Peter the Hermit who weren't, to put it mildly, the sharpest tools in the box. They spent weeks marching through the Rhineland behind a goose that they were convinced was Divinely inspired.  They attempted at one point to knock down a castle with their swords.  On reaching Muslim territory, they set about slaughtering the local Christians (who they mistook for    Muslims) and roasting babies on spits.

 

[kissdbyfire]

19 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Always look on the bright side of life... Wait, the show doesn't go there, either.

Just gloom, despair, and agony. Deep dark depression, excessive misery. If it weren't for bad luck, they'd have no luck at all...

 

Yeah. And again, we're back on how tone deaf the Ds are... Instead of depicting a grim and realistic world, this is what we get. And it's upsetting to those who love the story and the characters. But if you think about it, if you look at it with total detachment, the whole thing is so ridiculously over the top that it becomes a farce. Granted, not a very good farce, but still...

[Ruhail]

5 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I remember once having a fit of the giggles, when watching a programme about the Crusaders, which resembled Monty Python.

One section of the programme  focused on the followers of Peter the Hermit who weren't, to put it mildly, the sharpest tools in the box. They spent weeks marching through the Rhineland behind a goose that they were convinced was Divinely inspired.  They attempted at one point to knock down a castle with their swords.  On reaching Muslim territory, they set about slaughtering the local Christians (who they mistook for    Muslims) and roasting babies on spits.

 

that sounds funny what was it called?

 

[Lady Fevre Dream]

2 hours ago, LazyBazooka said:

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/game-of-thrones/news/a781214/kit-harington-jon-snow-is-dead-in-game-of-thrones-get-used-to-it/

LOL they still tryna keep it a secret after we all saw Kit on set.

I feel so bad for Kit.  Too bad the interviewer didn't bring up the pics of him on set this year.........it'd saved Kit all the bother.  I blame D&D for this.  

[Ruhail]

7 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

 

Yeah. And again, we're back on how tone deaf the Ds are... Instead of depicting a grim and realistic world, this is what we get. And it's upsetting to those who love the story and the characters. But if you think about it, if you look at it with total detachment, the whole thing is so ridiculously over the top that it becomes a farce. Granted, not a very good farce, but still...

But the audience is too stupid for our genius writing /S

[SeanF]

3 minutes ago, Ruhail said:

that sounds funny what was it called?

 

I can't remember now.  It was by Michael Palin, IIRC.