WWE Royal Rumble

[lessthanluke]

There is plenty of talent on the roster to make a brand split viable imo. It just isn't being used at the moment.

[briantw]

5 hours ago, GrimTuesday said:

What do you guys think about a brand split? I think that it would be good for the product. If they can get wrestlers working a little less, that could lead to fewer injuries, but you also have to consider that it could dilute the roster a little too much, with not enough star power on each roster to carry a show. That said, I think that it could lead to some new stars being made, just look at the guys who really took off during the 2000's, guys like Eddie and Benoit, who might not have reached the heights they did because they didn't fit the mold that Vince looks for. Of course, then you look at what creative is doing now, and imagine them coming up with story lines for two shows, rather than just Raw, and it doesn't inspire confidence.

The thing about a brand split is that it helps to make stars, and that's what the WWE really needs right now.  As you stated, guys like Eddie and Benoit (or He Who Shall Not Be Named) would likely never have been world champs without the brand split, and Smackdown basically launched the career of John Cena as well.  Guys like Edge benefited from it too.  Two world titles means two guys get to hold one, and that means more guys fighting for it as well.

It also has the side effect of making the Royal Rumble actually interesting, as a guy from either brand can win.  As it stands, we've known who was winning the Rumble each of the past three years because the WWE is horribly predictable.  Having two title fights at Wrestlemania means more potential for crazy outcomes in the Rumble.

As far as creative goes, that's simple.  Let Vince keep meddling and running Raw, and give Smackdown to Triple H.  Triple H has assembled a great team of bookers for NXT, and I have no doubt he'd do the same for Smackdown if he didn't have Vince constantly micromanaging everything.  Triple H just seems to get what a modern wrestling show should be (fewer, longer, higher-quality matches, announcers that actually talk about the match, and logical, sensible booking), whereas Vince is still caught up in this idea of sports entertainment that no one gives a shit about.

[lessthanluke]

Anyone watch this weeks LU yet? Holy shit that main event was good.

[briantw]

7 hours ago, lessthanluke said:

Anyone watch this weeks LU yet? Holy shit that main event was good.

I'm still getting through season one.  Just watched this:

Easily the best sold superkick I've ever seen.

[GrimTuesday]

8 hours ago, briantw said:

The thing about a brand split is that it helps to make stars, and that's what the WWE really needs right now.  As you stated, guys like Eddie and Benoit (or He Who Shall Not Be Named) would likely never have been world champs without the brand split, and Smackdown basically launched the career of John Cena as well.  Guys like Edge benefited from it too.  Two world titles means two guys get to hold one, and that means more guys fighting for it as well.

It also has the side effect of making the Royal Rumble actually interesting, as a guy from either brand can win.  As it stands, we've known who was winning the Rumble each of the past three years because the WWE is horribly predictable.  Having two title fights at Wrestlemania means more potential for crazy outcomes in the Rumble.

As far as creative goes, that's simple.  Let Vince keep meddling and running Raw, and give Smackdown to Triple H.  Triple H has assembled a great team of bookers for NXT, and I have no doubt he'd do the same for Smackdown if he didn't have Vince constantly micromanaging everything.  Triple H just seems to get what a modern wrestling show should be (fewer, longer, higher-quality matches, announcers that actually talk about the match, and logical, sensible booking), whereas Vince is still caught up in this idea of sports entertainment that no one gives a shit about.

Interestingly, it seems that something like what you proposed in you last paragraph might kind of be in the works. Apparently NXT's head writer is being moved to Smackdown. Could be an indication that they are looking to once again make Smackdown it's own thing if they are doing shit like that.

[briantw]

16 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

Interestingly, it seems that something like what you proposed in you last paragraph might kind of be in the works. Apparently NXT's head writer is being moved to Smackdown. Could be an indication that they are looking to once again make Smackdown it's own thing if they are doing shit like that.

If he moves to Smackdown and Vince still micromanages everything, he won't succeed.

I honestly don't think the problem is with WWE creative.  I think the rot is at the top, and that it's Vince's way or the highway, and that's the reason the product sucks as much as it does.  He's clearly lost touch with what wrestling fans want, and that's indicative of his refusal to either turn Roman Reigns heel or switch the push to Dean Ambrose (or both).  Vince decided Reigns was his new Cena, and goddammit we either accept him or we can go fuck ourselves.  The amount of effort they've gone to in order to get Reigns over is almost laughable when you consider that it's all failed and that Dean Ambrose has remained more over the entire time and for some mind-boggling reason the WWE hasn't taken advantage of that.

Articles like this, if true, pretty much illustrate how out of touch Vince is.  According to the article, he's actually blaming Triple H for Reigns not getting over properly.  Meanwhile, Triple H is getting booed like a proper heel during his current feud with Dean Ambrose because, duh, the crowd actually like Ambrose and supports him.  Triple H isn't doing anything differently than he did with Reigns.  The difference is that Ambrose, unlike Reigns, has charisma and can pull his own weight in the rivalry.

It's also kind of laughable that the WWE has had to write Reigns, their number one contender and the guy they want to be the face of their company, off of TV for multiple weeks because they knew he'd get booed relentlessly.

[Jack Bauer 24]

I cannot believe they've had to write Reigns off TV. That's pretty bad.

[Joe Pesci]

5 minutes ago, Jack Bauer 24 said:

I cannot believe they've had to write Reigns off TV. That's pretty bad.

It's even more pathetic that they're doing it a few weeks out from Wrestlemania, where he's sorta in the main event. How you keep a guy main eventing the signature show of the year off camera shows just how bad things are.

[briantw]

46 minutes ago, Jack Bauer 24 said:

I cannot believe they've had to write Reigns off TV. That's pretty bad.

Yeah.  It really is pathetic that they've had to write off their main event guy for Wrestlemania because he's not over enough.  Meanwhile, Dean Ambrose has been looking great going up against Triple H leading up to their match on Saturday.

[briantw]

Just finished season one of Lucha Underground.  This is what wrestling should be.  It's got all the things I loved from the Attitude Era of the WWF...the dumb but fun occult plots, an evil manager, and larger than life characters.  But it also has in-ring wrestling that is just phenomenal.  The matches aren't slow and plodding like the majority of WWE matches.  The wrestlers don't spend half the time in rest holds.  The matches move quick and are almost always exciting.  Oh, and the booking isn't moronic like the current WWE product.  

I also enjoyed how the plot went somewhere.  It didn't just meander onward into eternity like the current Authority story line has done in the WWE.  The first season told a story, and in the second season (I've watched the first episode so far) things are different as a result of what happened in the first.  It's a far cry from the WWE where everything kind of lingers in an eternal state of purgatory and nothing ever really changes.  I'm actually looking forward to seeing what happens next, which almost never happens in the WWE because it's either wildly predictable or boring as fuck.

Honestly, I would have stopped watching the WWE by now if it weren't for all the talented guys they've signed that I want to watch.  It's just a shame to see almost all of them horribly misused when other promotions can so easily get almost everything right.

[Joe Pesci]

The lucha underground on demand wouldn't work when I tried to watch it, and now it's gone completely! I'll have to check it out online.

I actually thought Raw was one of the better shows that they've had in quite awhile too. 

[briantw]

Man, that final Raw before Wrestlemania was pretty awful.  Reigns got booed out of the building, including a "Roman sucks" chant.  The crowd revolted during the six man tag to express their displeasure at the IC Title match being filled with a bunch of jobbers for no reason.  They just didn't really properly build up most of the guys going into the biggest show of the year.

Meanwhile, NXT tonight is filled with matches designed to give the key players on Friday's Takeover event wins to make them look strong.

[Joe Pesci]

17 minutes ago, briantw said:

Man, that final Raw before Wrestlemania was pretty awful.  Reigns got booed out of the building, including a "Roman sucks" chant.  The crowd revolted during the six man tag to express their displeasure at the IC Title match being filled with a bunch of jobbers for no reason.  They just didn't really properly build up most of the guys going into the biggest show of the year.

Meanwhile, NXT tonight is filled with matches designed to give the key players on Friday's Takeover event wins to make them look strong.

Outside of Shane-O-Mac/Undertaker at the beginning, just a terrible lead-in to the biggest show of the year. They obviously refuse to listen to the fans on Reigns, and I caught Eva Marie getting booed out of the building too. This WM has the least amount of hype that I can remember, but I'm still intrigued at the potential of several of the matches.

[briantw]

3 minutes ago, Joe Pesci said:

Outside of Shane-O-Mac/Undertaker at the beginning, just a terrible lead-in to the biggest show of the year. They obviously refuse to listen to the fans on Reigns, and I caught Eva Marie getting booed out of the building too. This WM has the least amount of hype that I can remember, but I'm still intrigued at the potential of several of the matches.

Supposedly Vince thought that Eva Marie would be cheered when she came out to help her team.  Just goes to show how totally out of touch he is with what the fans want.

I do think they'll end up turning Reigns, though.  Either at 'Mania or the night after.  They have to at this point.  He's just irreparably damaged.

[briantw]

Compare these two cards:

Shinsuke Nakamura Vs. Sami Zayn
Austin Aries Vs. Baron Corbin
The Revival Vs. American Alpha for the NXT Tag Titles
Apollo Crews Vs. Elias Samson
Bayley Vs. Asuka for the NXT Women's Title
Finn Balor Vs. Samoa Joe for the NXT Title

---

Kalisto Vs. Ryback for the US Title
Some Shitty Battle Royal
AJ Styles Vs. Chris Jericho
The New Day Vs. The League of Nations
Charlotte Vs. Sasha Banks Vs. Becky Lynch for the Women's Title
Kevin Owens Vs. Sami Zayn Vs. Dolph Ziggler Vs. Five Other Jobbers for the Intercontinental Title
Deam Ambrose Vs. Brock Lesnar
The Undertaker Vs. Shane McMahon
Triple H Vs. Roman Reigns for the WWE Title

---

It's sad that an NXT event is going to be significantly better than Wrestlemania.  I'm looking forward to Styles/Jericho, but we've already seen it like five times at this point so it's not that exciting.  New Day are always great.  The women's match should be good, and I've read they're actually going to give them legit time to perform.  I'd like the Owens/Zayn match more if they hadn't infested it with jobbers who have no shot of winning.  Why even bother with that?  We all know Stardust and Zack Ryder aren't winning the IC title.  Don't waste our time.  Ambrose/Lesnar should be violent as hell, so that will be nice.  Shane/Taker is two old dudes.  

As for the main event, I'm really more interested in seeing how badly the audience boos Roman Reigns than I am in the match itself.  Triple H has always been a solid wrestler, but he's getting passed his prime, and Reigns is average at best in the ring.  I think the match itself will be all right.  It won't be spectacular, because I think at this point in his career Triple H is only as good as his opponent (he can hold his own, but he can't carry someone else as we saw with the Sting match last year), and Reigns ain't spectacular.  It's just all overshadowed by the subplot of how tone deaf Vince McMahon can be with Reigns.

Meanwhile, the NXT card is spectacular from top to bottom.  Nakamura and Aries make their NXT debuts.  American Alpha (presumably) wins the tag titles.  We get to see Bayley take on the first opponent in her title reign that actually feels like she could win.  Balor/Joe II should be fun as well.  When the worst match on the card has Apollo Crews in it, you're probably in good shape.

[briantw]

Hot damn that NXT Takeover was great.  The tag match was awesome.  Nakamura and Zayn actually delivered on the hype.  The women's match was solid.  I even really liked Joe/Balor, a hell of a lot better than their London match.

Also, Nakamura's entrance music is the shit.

[Joe Pesci]

13 minutes ago, briantw said:

Hot damn that NXT Takeover was great.  The tag match was awesome.  Nakamura and Zayn actually delivered on the hype.  The women's match was solid.  I even really liked Joe/Balor, a hell of a lot better than their London match.

Also, Nakamura's entrance music is the shit.

It's the best wrestling product I've seen in a while, gotta start watching NXT regularly. Not sure how WM is going to top it.

[briantw]

Just now, Joe Pesci said:

It's the best wrestling product I've seen in a while, gotta start watching NXT regularly. Not sure how WM is going to top it.

If you haven't seen them already, I'd highly recommend going back and watching some of the older NXT stuff.  The Takeover where Owens debuted was great, as was the one where he won the title from Zayn.  Basically every NXT Takeover is great.  The week to week stuff is more hit or miss, but it's generally well-booked and they tweak things when they're not working.  

[Joe Pesci]

2 minutes ago, briantw said:

If you haven't seen them already, I'd highly recommend going back and watching some of the older NXT stuff.  The Takeover where Owens debuted was great, as was the one where he won the title from Zayn.  Basically every NXT Takeover is great.  The week to week stuff is more hit or miss, but it's generally well-booked and they tweak things when they're not working.  

Will do. The wrestling was top notch and not having all the pointless interviews was a welcomed change of pace. No Golden Truth promo, I'll take it.

[briantw]

5 minutes ago, Joe Pesci said:

Will do. The wrestling was top notch and not having all the pointless interviews was a welcomed change of pace. No Golden Truth promo, I'll take it.

The two Takeovers with Sasha and Bayley fighting for the title were both fantastic too.  Their thirty minute iron woman match was one of the best matches I saw last year.  Sasha did such a great job of turning the crowd (which loved her) against her over the course of the match with her heel antics.  It was fun as hell.