Tennis Volume 6

[Mladen]

On 9/9/2016 at 9:13 AM, Free Northman Reborn said:

Still no love for Djokovic I see. No love for the (hopefully) new Grand Slam record holder in a couple of years time?

Novak is partially to blame for that. At the beginning of his career, he was asking for more medical time-outs than half of the Tour did in their entire careers. Plus, there is that desperate "I want you to like me" attitude that can be off-putting. Naturally, according to our media, they hate him because he is Serb who is better than them 

[3CityApache]

Fun fact: if Stan manages to grab Wimbledon title, he would be the first player since Agassi in 1999, who completed a career Grand Slam having won only one title each. Of course Agassi managed to win four more majors after that, which is not very probable in Stan's case, given his age. I hope he can make it.

[baxus]

On 9/9/2016 at 9:24 AM, 3CityApache said:

Nah, he won't make another five slams (not counting this one). He's not getting any younger after all. Even though there is no obvious successor in sight, there are at least few players capable of winning slams (Murray, Wawrinka, Delpo, perhaps Nishikori or Raonic will step up, I would not write Nadal or Federer off just yet as well).

I don't think Federer or Nadal are going to win any more Grand Slams. To be honest, I would be very surprised to see Nadal in the Grand Slam finals again. At 35, Federer is getting old (by pro athlete's standards, of course), and with this injury he might take a while before getting back into shape. As far as Nadal is concerned, the thing everyone predicted would happen is happening right now - his style of play took its toll on his body and he just can't keep playing at the level he maintained for quite a long time.

Djokovic winning 6 more slams got more difficult after his losses at Wimbledon and US Open this year but it's still not impossible. It would be funny to see that record taken from Federer.

[Mladen]

8 hours ago, baxus said:

Djokovic winning 6 more slams got more difficult after his losses at Wimbledon and US Open this year but it's still not impossible. It would be funny to see that record taken from Federer.

Funny? I would have to move out of the country... It will be the collective orgasm I would prefer not to watch.

[baxus]

3 minutes ago, Risto said:

Funny? I would have to move out of the country... It will be the collective orgasm I would prefer not to watch.

Well, that would not last that long. Still, the comedy value of having someone from a country with such lack of tennis tradition being the GOAT would be pure comedy gold.

[Mladen]

5 hours ago, baxus said:

Well, that would not last that long. Still, the comedy value of having someone from a country with such lack of tennis tradition being the GOAT would be pure comedy gold.

Well, I am not sure, but AFAIK, Switzerland also doesn't have some great tennis tradition. Beside, when it comes to individual sports, it's not much about country as it is about the said individual. 

And, come on... How many days have we cried because he cried? Half the country was in mourning because Delpo won at Olympics. 

[baxus]

10 hours ago, Risto said:

And, come on... How many days have we cried because he cried? Half the country was in mourning because Delpo won at Olympics. 

But it was not really like that, was it?

The sentiment was more along the lines of "why would he even play? he owes us nothing" than "oh, poor Djokovic, he took it so hard".

I still think that he's our athlete who's disappointed the most in the Olympics. Given how dominant he was in his sport over the last few years, that the tournament was played on his favourite surface, that a lot of top 10 and top 20 players bowed out, that he's won the Rodgers Cup a week or two before the Olympics, even a silver medal would've been a bad result, let alone getting knocked out in the first round.

Still, for some reason, Serbian general public is more inclined to cut him some slack than to, for example, swimmers who were never within a realistic shot at the medal.

[Mladen]

2 hours ago, baxus said:

But it was not really like that, was it?

The sentiment was more along the lines of "why would he even play? he owes us nothing" than "oh, poor Djokovic, he took it so hard".

I still think that he's our athlete who's disappointed the most in the Olympics. Given how dominant he was in his sport over the last few years, that the tournament was played on his favourite surface, that a lot of top 10 and top 20 players bowed out, that he's won the Rodgers Cup a week or two before the Olympics, even a silver medal would've been a bad result, let alone getting knocked out in the first round.

Still, for some reason, Serbian general public is more inclined to cut him some slack than to, for example, swimmers who were never within a realistic shot at the medal.

IDK, I think we went a distance in order to justify his loss. His loss made us see what A-holes we have been to the other players. Remember how quite a lot of players were being called models, volunteers. It all stopped with his loss. The expression of admiration, love and sadness were overly pathetic and entire public made it sure even HE knows we all love him and he can do no wrong. It is the worst case of idolatry. Lucky for him, we adore our basketball players so their silver medal was actually a great buffer.

Certainly, he disappointed the most, but God forbid we actually said that. We were ready to throw under the bus anyone who actually claimed that there was something going on with him. He went through US Open and reached the final, almost without playing. And when people said that Wawrinka may win this, it was seen as high treason.

As I said, it is worst kind of idolatry. I understand that is the world we live in and that it is the world we live in. I simply don't like it. I respect his game, his successes, I even respect him as the man, individual who has done a lot for our country, but the entire hoopla around him, count me out

[baxus]

I share your sentiment.

I must have missed the part when the general public realised what assholes they were to other athletes. I remember our coxless pair  (great guys btw) being called retarded on the front page of some of our "newspaper" for their poor result in the heats, Ivana Maksimović-Andjušić getting all kind of crap thrown her way for not winning the medal, Velimir Stjepanović being treated like crap for not qualifying for the finals in his events etc.

[Mladen]

40 minutes ago, baxus said:

I share your sentiment.

I must have missed the part when the general public realised what assholes they were to other athletes. I remember our coxless pair  (great guys btw) being called retarded on the front page of some of our "newspaper" for their poor result in the heats, Ivana Maksimović-Andjušić getting all kind of crap thrown her way for not winning the medal, Velimir Stjepanović being treated like crap for not qualifying for the finals in his events etc.

LOL, well, we at least found it a bit more tasteless to attack others once His Majesty lost  

That said, beside having the same prize fund from Ministry of Sport, how we treat our Paralympians is truly disgraceful.

[baxus]

2 hours ago, Risto said:

LOL, well, we at least found it a bit more tasteless to attack others once His Majesty lost  

As I said, I haven't noticed that at all. Other athletes were treated like crap for not living up to general public's expectations, as unrealistic as they were.

Anyway, there's no point in derailing this thread any further.

To get back on topic, I'd like to see Djokovic become the tennis player with the most Grand Slam titles. And I'll love to see him retire in a few years time.

[Jon Fossoway]

I'm guessing this is a general tennis thread.

Any canadian here? My country is about to take yo' racquets in Davis Cup today (Chile).

[Mladen]

On 9/15/2016 at 2:30 PM, baxus said:

To get back on topic, I'd like to see Djokovic become the tennis player with the most Grand Slam titles. And I'll love to see him retire in a few years time.

Well, according to his father, people in 34 (ahem, ahem, Federer) should not be playing But, I am sure, we will have the changing of the tune when his boy will be in question.

IDK, regardless of the numbers and records, the style, elegance and easiness Federer plays proves that there can be no other king to what is considered a "gentlemen's sport".

[Jon Fossoway]

On 16/9/2016 at 3:03 PM, Risto said:

Well, according to his father, people in 34 (ahem, ahem, Federer) should not be playing But, I am sure, we will have the changing of the tune when his boy will be in question.

IDK, regardless of the numbers and records, the style, elegance and easiness Federer plays proves that there can be no other king to what is considered a "gentlemen's sport".

When you are fit to play and your style of play is not physically demanding (say, for example, my countryman Fernando Gonzalez) you can go past 30 with ease. I agree, Fed is on the limit here, and he's clearly modifying his game to win faster. Tommy Haas was top 20 with 34 years old; Ivo Karlovic has been up and down lately but at his 36 years old he has even won an ATP this year. Fabrice Santoro went on until 37 I think and won an ATP at 36 (Newport I believe). Ivo rely on his serve; Santoro's game wasn't physical (many still wonder what kind of sorcery was his style of play ); Tommy is an all around player but he finishes on the net alot. Fed can still go a year. He'll go on until he feels he can't keep up in competition against top 20s. So far, he still can.

Long live Roger.

[Criston of House Shapper]

13 hours ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

When you are fit to play and your style of play is not physically demanding (say, for example, my countryman Fernando Gonzalez) you can go past 30 with ease. I agree, Fed is on the limit here, and he's clearly modifying his game to win faster. Tommy Haas was top 20 with 34 years old; Ivo Karlovic has been up and down lately but at his 36 years old he has even won an ATP this year. Fabrice Santoro went on until 37 I think and won an ATP at 36 (Newport I believe). Ivo rely on his serve; Santoro's game wasn't physical (many still wonder what kind of sorcery was his style of play ); Tommy is an all around player but he finishes on the net alot. Fed can still go a year. He'll go on until he feels he can't keep up in competition against top 20s. So far, he still can.

Long live Roger.

Federer should retire. He's achieved everything he can and he's just going to get progressively worse. There's no point in him continuing now that his body is starting to be more and more fragile as he gets older. Instead of ending his season he should've retired altogether, but of course he's going to try a comeback next year and then say "Fuck it, I'm too old for this bs."

Djokovic will probably follow him soon, I don't think he'll keep up this level for much longer and he's past his prime already.

[Calibandar]

I was out last week so didn't have a chance to comment yet, but a couple of things surprised me at the US Open:

• Nishikori beating Murray was a big one. That was a match in which two fit players went at it, hard and long, and I was very positively surprised to see Nishikori win that for once. I've seen him lose so many matches against Djokovic at Masters and Slams the last two years. Of course in the end he fell to Wawrinka but he played a very good tournament. As for Murray, he was fine until he lost to Kei. He would have been a very tough opponent for Stan or Djokovic as well.
• Stan the Man performed a minor miracle here by playing so well, certainly nothing indicated this would happen. Beating Del Potro in the quarter finals was big. Beating Nishikori in the semi at least as big. Beating the Djoker is just fantastic work from him. I was watching that first set and thought "oh no, here we go". I had already seen Monfils cop out very easily to Djokovic in the semi in a quite embarrassing performance, and wanted Stan to do so much better. Still he got that first set to a tie break and it just seems his game has the right amount of agression and solidity to unsettle even the best defender in tennis. Because if Djokovic showed anyhthing, it's how well rounded he is, and how supremely athletic he is.
• Nadal vs Pouille was a classic. What a superb match. Nadal actually continues to look really good but Pouille played out of his mind, evidenced by how devasted he was when he later had to play Monfils and didn't do shit.

[Calibandar]

On 14-9-2016 at 8:23 AM, baxus said:

I don't think Federer or Nadal are going to win any more Grand Slams. To be honest, I would be very surprised to see Nadal in the Grand Slam finals again. At 35, Federer is getting old (by pro athlete's standards, of course), and with this injury he might take a while before getting back into shape. As far as Nadal is concerned, the thing everyone predicted would happen is happening right now - his style of play took its toll on his body and he just can't keep playing at the level he maintained for quite a long time.

Djokovic winning 6 more slams got more difficult after his losses at Wimbledon and US Open this year but it's still not impossible. It would be funny to see that record taken from Federer.

I wouldn't say either Nadal or Federer are unlikely to win another Slam at all.

Look, Djokovic has utterly dominated for years and years now. The last two especially. If he continued to be such a dominant force then I can see Nadal or Fed never win one again. If it's more the Djokovic of the last few months, a very good player who can actually be beaten through great effort, and that is a Djokovic I prefer, then I can see Nishikori, Stan, Del Potro, Murray, Federer or Nadal win some slams here and there.

I don't think Federer is past it yet, but maybe I am wrong, we need to wait and see. He's not as good as he once was, obviously, but maybe he doesn't need to be. Murray is a great player but he is beatable, by Federer especially, and by Nadal as well. Nadal is clearly much better in 2016 and he knows it.

[Jon Fossoway]

3 hours ago, Criston of House Shapper said:

Federer should retire. He's achieved everything he can and he's just going to get progressively worse. There's no point in him continuing now that his body is starting to be more and more fragile as he gets older. Instead of ending his season he should've retired altogether, but of course he's going to try a comeback next year and then say "Fuck it, I'm too old for this bs."

Djokovic will probably follow him soon, I don't think he'll keep up this level for much longer and he's past his prime already.

Federer has said he can still go on. As I said, he's modifying his style of play to this end.

The sure thing is in two years the rankings will suffer an earthquake. Many of the top 100 are nearly their 30's or over it.

[Calibandar]

4 hours ago, Criston of House Shapper said:

Federer should retire. He's achieved everything he can and he's just going to get progressively worse. There's no point in him continuing now that his body is starting to be more and more fragile as he gets older. Instead of ending his season he should've retired altogether, but of course he's going to try a comeback next year and then say "Fuck it, I'm too old for this bs."

Djokovic will probably follow him soon, I don't think he'll keep up this level for much longer and he's past his prime already.

I do think Federer retiring now would be premature. Premature for a couple of reasons actually, one of them being that he still loves to play tennis at the highest level and is very obviously still capable of doing that. Another reason will be that he feels he has some unfinished business; I think if he felt in his body that he was breaking down or not able to keep up, he would grudgingly retire, but outside of Djokovic nobody is outplaying him even at age 34. Another point is that he has the sort of effortless highly skilled sort of game ( which so few players still have in this era) that will allow him to grow old on the court gracefully. I think winning slams will be hard for him because of the best of five element, but I can definitely see him win Masters tournaments still if his form is great. Finally I think he wants to continue because he himself feels he can still be the best or among the top 4 for two more seasons. 

As for Djokovic, I certainly do not think he is past his prime, and see him play for many years yet. He's 29 years old.

Let's look at the ages of the top players in the 2017 year:

Djokovic: 30

Murray: 30

Nadal: 31

Federer: 35

Wawrinka: 32 ( bit of a late bloomer isn't he)

Del Potro: 28

Nishikori: 27

Raonic: 26

Outside of Federer all of these top guys have a few years left, all depending on injury. 

If anything ushers in a new era it's the young range of top talents. Americans have high hopes for Fritz, Tiafoe, Opelka, Donaldson. Kuznetsov, Zverev, Kyrgios, just to name a few names.

[baxus]

18 hours ago, Calibandar said:

I wouldn't say either Nadal or Federer are unlikely to win another Slam at all.

Look, Djokovic has utterly dominated for years and years now. The last two especially. If he continued to be such a dominant force then I can see Nadal or Fed never win one again. If it's more the Djokovic of the last few months, a very good player who can actually be beaten through great effort, and that is a Djokovic I prefer, then I can see Nishikori, Stan, Del Potro, Murray, Federer or Nadal win some slams here and there.

I don't think Federer is past it yet, but maybe I am wrong, we need to wait and see. He's not as good as he once was, obviously, but maybe he doesn't need to be. Murray is a great player but he is beatable, by Federer especially, and by Nadal as well. Nadal is clearly much better in 2016 and he knows it.

I stand by what I said on Federer and Nadal.

Nadal is almost spent physically, he can't get back into the rhythm for a couple of years now because of injuries. His last Grand Slam title is 2014 Roland Garros, and he hasn't really showed much outside of Grand Slams either.

Federer can still play, can still get some decent results but to see him win another slam would be a surprise, at his age and with other players rising their level.

The fact that Nishikori, Stan, Del Potro and Murray are on the tour now only makes it more difficult for Federer and Nadal to win another Slam, since there are now more than 3 athletes playing at a very high level. There is no more cruising to the semifinals (or even the final) for the "Big 3". Seeing Federer win 7 best-of-five sets matches in a fortnight at the age of 35 would make a great plot for a movie but it's not really likely. Even if he was as "lucky" as Djokovic was in this year's US Open to have a few opponents withdraw due to injuries, I'm not sure that would make that much difference if he faced Djokovic or Murray in the finals.