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How is the Wall Coming Down?


Maxxine

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So I think a good percentage of people think the Wall will eventually come down. I definitely understand the thought process behind it. As someone said to me it defeats the purpose to have an enemy that isn't a threat because they can't cross a barrier. However, I still have the issue of how it's going to happen. It's not like it can just come crashing down. I'm not a physics major or anything, but if a structure that big just crashes down it would kill a lot of people right? Wildlings, NW, and Northerners. And that includes a lot of potentially important people. Think of who's at the Wall right not: Mel, Jon, Tormund, Shireen, etc.

So I don't think it can crash down. I feel like the Wall just disappearing is too anticlimactic. So maybe whatever magic is in the Wall that keeps the Others out just stops working so there's a breach and the Others go through the tunnels. I read a fanfic where Dany's Dragons melt the Wall, which may be interesting. But I think that might create similar issues to the Wall crashing down. But idk.

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I always keep coming back to this: "The monsters cannot pass so long as the Wall stands and the men of the Night's Watch stay true, that's what Old Nan used to say."

I think that the magic in the Wall will be negated by the NW brothers spilling the blood of the LC at the Wall itself. They had also just murdered the previous LC.

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I’m just throwing this out there; With winter coming, the big freezing cold winter, what is the possibility that the Wall doesn’t have to crash. I mean the only reason The Mance was trying to break CB was to get him & the wildlings to safety on the south side of the Wall by opening the gate at CB.

What’s the possibility that the Other’s and the wights might simply use a frozen river to work their way around the Wall at Shadow Tower or a frozen sea at Eastwatch? Maybe water is another deterrent to the Other’s, but frozen water, ice, is a resource that they can use to their advantage.

What made me think about it was, when Sam stabbed the Other with the obsidian/dragon glass/frozen fire the Other melted.

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1 hour ago, Bran the Shipper said:

I think that the Horn of Joramun will be blown to collapse the Wall.  Yes that means most of the people on the Wall will die, but this won't happen until later in the Winds of Winter book.  Which gives plenty of time for the important people to put a safe distance between them and the Wall.

Basically this. The Wall is almost certainly Chekhov's Wall -- it is there, in part, only to come down in dramatic fashion. Tunnels and melting are too wimpy. This collapse needs to be incredibly dramatic with monumental consequences. Presumably, Jon will not be at the Wall any longer at that point, and anyone who stays behind will be expendable in the story (notice that Sam is not at the Wall any longer). Probably, only members of the NW will still be there (the Wildings having gone with Jon) -- and at that point, every member of the NW is expendable. Only Jon and Sam really need to survive further in the story. The arc for every other member of the NW can end with the downing of the Wall, probably near the end of WoW.

I suspect that Jon will be at Winterfell at the time the Wall comes down (I think GRRM has confirmed there is a huge battle for Winterfell coming) -- so Jon might hear the crash but won't be directly impacted by it. Whatever remnants of the NW are left, however, will be destroyed. There will be no more NW after the Wall comes down, I think. So Jon cannot have a Vow to an organization that no longer exists or to guard a Wall that no longer exists.

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Horn of Winter is the biggest red herring in this series. However, I do not write off the possibility that whoever blows the Horn of Winter will coincide with the REAL reason.it falls down.

And that main reason is the red comet we saw in A Clash of Kings. It is going to hit the moon, and parts of it are going to land all across Planetos, bringing the Long NIght. One huge chunk is going to hit the Wall, bringing it down. Big credit goes to LmL and his amazing essays about astronomy and how original Long Night went down.

 

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2 hours ago, Butterfreak said:

The horn Sam has is a pretty obvious Chekhov's Gun, I think it's the Horn of Winter and that Euron will blow it to bring down the Wall.

Yeah, that's what I think as well. Sam will eventually come back around late TWoW or in ADoS, and someone blows it. 

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Given that GRRM started off writing this tale of ordinary country-folk within months of the Berlin Wall coming down and we have the likes of Ygritte telling Jon that its evil, I think that it has to come down as part of the story's resolution.

Given that blood and magic raised it and bearing the practical issues of it either toppling or melting, I rather like to think it will mirror the demise of Ser Puddles in the mummers' version by swirling away in a great cloud of ice crystals.

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I still don't see the wall ever coming down...It's too big of a world changer.  I think GRRM looks as Westeros as a land he can write stories in forever...pre-ASOIAF and post-ASOIAF.  No wall would severely cripple the plot's he could create in the future post-ASOIAF.  It would mean no more Nights Watch.  No more Others.  And with no Others, no one would really care about "winter is coming".  People would eventually go explore further north, explore the rest of the land(s).  The children of the forest will all be revealed and maybe even killed.  There would be zero wildlings anymore......basically half the mystique and mystery of Westeros would be completely wiped away if the wall came down. 

Think about it...if the wall came down, and you read a new novella at the Wall that was pre-ASOIAF....I guarantee you would read that novella differently, knowing that it's mysteries where already explained and it has collapsed.  That would take a lot of wind out of the sails of the novella, wouldn't it?  I know it would for me.  

GRRM has spent way too much time on this world building it and creating a world filled with wonder and mystery.  Bringing down the wall would completely destroy the story, and somehow I don't see GRRM doing that.

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1 hour ago, SevasTra82 said:

I still don't see the wall ever coming down...It's too big of a world changer.  I think GRRM looks as Westeros as a land he can write stories in forever...pre-ASOIAF and post-ASOIAF.  No wall would severely cripple the plot's he could create in the future post-ASOIAF.  It would mean no more Nights Watch.  No more Others.  And with no Others, no one would really care about "winter is coming".  People would eventually go explore further north, explore the rest of the land(s).  The children of the forest will all be revealed and maybe even killed.  There would be zero wildlings anymore......basically half the mystique and mystery of Westeros would be completely wiped away if the wall came down. 

Think about it...if the wall came down, and you read a new novella at the Wall that was pre-ASOIAF....I guarantee you would read that novella differently, knowing that it's mysteries where already explained and it has collapsed.  That would take a lot of wind out of the sails of the novella, wouldn't it?  I know it would for me.  

GRRM has spent way too much time on this world building it and creating a world filled with wonder and mystery.  Bringing down the wall would completely destroy the story, and somehow I don't see GRRM doing that.

Totally disagree. GRRM has shown little interest in writing much about the Wall pre-ASOIAF. He is obsessed with the Targs and has stated he will write Fire and Blood about their history -- nothing about NW history. He is in his sixties -- how many more books do you think he ever will write -- especially at his pace. And the Others likely are gone no matter what -- how else can ASOIAF end.

The drama of the Wall coming down is just too amazing an image for GRRM to sacrifice. 

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14 hours ago, sarah.jenice said:

I always keep coming back to this: "The monsters cannot pass so long as the Wall stands and the men of the Night's Watch stay true, that's what Old Nan used to say."

I think that the magic in the Wall will be negated by the NW brothers spilling the blood of the LC at the Wall itself. They had also just murdered the previous LC.

I agree. Old Nan's stories are shown to be quiet accurate actually, and I have to say, this is one line that stuck with me, too. Especially considering that the last two LC have been murdered by brothers of the Watch, one of them at Castle Black. That's a pretty clear sign that the men of the Watch are not true anymore, and I'm rather sure it's going to be important.

I think this betrayal will cause the magic of the Wall to stop working, which could cause it to just collapse, or maybe just start slowly falling apart, or the Wall itself stays in place but the WW can pass it.. I'm not sure which one, I'd prefer the last one, because it means that many beloved characters have a chance to survive, and it fits with the quote, but it could really go all three ways.

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30 minutes ago, Queen Alienor said:

I agree. Old Nan's stories are shown to be quiet accurate actually, and I have to say, this is one line that stuck with me, too. Especially considering that the last two LC have been murdered by brothers of the Watch, one of them at Castle Black. That's a pretty clear sign that the men of the Watch are not true anymore, and I'm rather sure it's going to be important.

I think this betrayal will cause the magic of the Wall to stop working, which could cause it to just collapse, or maybe just start slowly falling apart, or the Wall itself stays in place but the WW can pass it.. I'm not sure which one, I'd prefer the last one, because it means that many beloved characters have a chance to survive, and it fits with the quote, but it could really go all three ways.

What beloved characters will die as a result of the Wall coming down? I think any beloved character who is at the Wall now either will die independent of the Wall coming down (like Shireen) or will not be at the Wall when it comes down (like Jon -- or Sam who has already left the Wall for the Citadel). So who are you referencing as a beloved character that would die?

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11 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

So who are you referencing as a beloved character that would die?

I really like Val, for example, and she's currently at the Wall. Now, she could of course have left the Wall at the time it comes down, but that I think depends on when that happens. If for example the Wall comes down immediately following the stabbing of Jon, which I consider unlikely but possible, pretty much everyone who is there now faces a pretty ugly death. If it takes a while... well, that really depends on who takes control there, doesn't it?

If, Idk, Tormund and Val take control with the help of a couple loyal brothers (unlikely, I know, but just bear with me here) then I don't see her leaving the Wall. If Bowen Marsh takes control, he might decide to keep her as a hostage, misunderstanding her title as princess of the Wildlings like Stannis and his crew do. If Jon himself is only injured and able to retake command, there's a good chance she'd stay, too.

And of course, there's a few Watch men like Iron Emmet and Pyp and Grenn and Dolorous Edd who are stationed at the Wall (not CB, but still the Wall) who I've come to like.

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