Puns and Wordplay

[Seams]

On 9/17/2023 at 3:30 PM, Nadden said:

Not if the Wall wa[s crying].

I'm starting to notice these kinds of word games, too. There's a lot of "s + laughter" phrases in Tyrion POVs. (I.E., slaughter)

[Nadden]

23 hours ago, Seams said:

I'm starting to notice these kinds of word games, too. There's a lot of "s + laughter" phrases in Tyrion POVs. (I.E., slaughter)

This one comes as a clue to the activity Will (POV) witnessed just prior to the opening scene of the series. Are you seeing the same kind of direct connections?

[Sandy Clegg]

I've noticed a Jon in the Wiki page that isn't mentioned in the main text of the books. It's one of the Brotherhood Without Banners and his name is a blatant pun on Jon Snow's famed 'you know nothing' catchphrase:

Jon o' Nutten is an outlaw from Nutten and is a member of the brotherhood without banners.

Jon o' Nutten

or ...

Jon Know-Nuttin'

Imagine it being said like this Three Stooges character, whose watch "doesn't say nuttin' ... you gotta look at it!"

How does George keep getting away with this stuff? 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Sandy Clegg

[Nadden]

Previously in this thread I mentioned a discovery of some wordplay in the description of Waymar’s cloak. 

Quote

His cloak was his crowning glory; sable, thick and black and soft as sin. (AGOT, Prologue)

I pointed out the small fact that the words "as sin" could be spelled backwards to form "Nissa" This fed nicely into some other ideas I had about black mirrors. “The Great Rock” 

Quote

His heart stopped in his chest. For a moment he dared not breathe. Moonlight shone down on the clearing, the ashes of the firepit, the snow-covered lean-to, the great rock, the little half-frozen stream. Everything was just as it had been a few hours ago.(AGOT, Prologue)

Here’s a quick rewrite I did of the following  passage with the idea of Waymar standing before a black mirror:

Quote

Will heard the breath go out of Ser Waymar Royce in a long hiss. "Come no farther," the lordling warned. His voice cracked like a boy's. He threw the long sable cloak back over his shoulders, to free his arms for battle, and took his sword in both hands. The wind had stopped. It was very cold.(AGOT, Prologue)

The winds no longer whispered as the "dance" in the clearing is about to commence. Waymar pauses and releases a calming breath to temper the steel in his nerves. It is literally and figuratively a pivotal moment as Waymar's back turns to Will. In this moment, something peculiar happens. Waymar sees the vague features of a pale-white face, devoid of emotions, suspended before him. It had no fear; it was, in a way, fear itself. Waymar could no longer deny his fear. It was staring right at him. His voice cracks as he whispers a cold warning, "Come no farther." At the same instant just before Waymar throws his cloak back over his shoulders; crowning from the thick soft feminine abyss of the Goddess “Nissa” comes the head of a supernatural frozen-being in all of its’ glory.

The thick, soft, feminine abyss is a euphemism I made up for Nissa’s ho-haa but it matches the cloak: “thick and black and soft”

And the crowning of the supernatural, frozen-being in all of its glory is another way of saying…

Quote

A shadow emerged from the dark of the wood(AGOT, Prologue)

The crowning of a shadow(white) in all of its’ glory matches the colloquial moniker Will, in his head, gives the cloak: “his crowning glory”.

Of course “crowning” replaces “emerged” in the second quote. Crowning is the stage of labor when the infants head is passing through the ho-haa.
 

Continuing with the euphemisms…

If “the wood” is a euphemisms for a man’s reproductive sword “the dark of the wood” would be the euphemism for a woman’s ho-haa in this case.

I’m saying that in the same way Waymar’s cloak is “as sin”; the same is true for the cloak’s reflection [invisible in a black mirror because it doesn’t reflect moonlight] being Nissa’s ho-haa.

An invisible cloak symbolizing Nissa’s ho-haa seems right in-line with Martin’s sense of humor.

I know many in this forum aren’t familiar with or agree with my ideas about the “the great rock” but this does give much more context to my previously mentioned wordplay and adds lots more play on words.

One more underdeveloped thought that came to me was perspective. Depending on our perspective we might be seeing the crowning of a shadow from Nissa; from another perspective we might be seeing the penetration into Nissa as something tall and gaunt and hard as old bones, milky-white. Another euphemism? Not sure; but all of the swords in the Prologue are a personification of the characters.

Quote

A shadow emerged from the dark of the wood. It stood in front of Royce. Tall, it was, and gaunt and hard as old bones, with flesh pale as milk. (AGOT, Prologue)

*Melisandre’s “shadows baby” would seem perfect as an inverse parallel to this idea. Maybe instead of a mirrored “white shadow” projection; we have shadowy injection created with fire.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Nadden

[Sandy Clegg]

5 hours ago, Nadden said:

Of course “crowning” replaces “emerged” in the second quote. Crowning is the stage of labor when the infants head is passing through the ho-haa.

I can never hear Al Pacino the same after learning this ...

[Nadden]

9 hours ago, Sandy Clegg said:

I can never hear Al Pacino the same after learning this ...

 And those scrying gynecologists should thank Martin for having a hard time clearing their mind of work when seeking divine knowledge.

What I believe we are looking at is analogous to another creation story. It deals with some more wordplay about an adamant sickle drawn forth from “the dark of the wood”[The euphemisms mentioned above]

Adamant - a legendary stone of impenetrable hardness, formerly sometimes identified with the diamond. (i.e. The Great Rock)

In the reality of the Waymar’s scene, the great rock is “frozen fire”, but symbolizes the diamond in the creation story. A familiar name used for diamonds is “Ice”. So an adamant sickle, in a way, can be called an “icicle”.

In fact, we get a connection between “frozen fire” and “icicles” in this quote:

Quote

Will closed his eyes. Far beneath him, he heard their voices and laughter sharp as icicles. (AGOT, Prologue)

An analysis of the scene reveals that the sounds Will hears are shards of “frozen fire” being stepped on. Like the one in Waymar’s eye.

A broken icicle, figuratively, leaves “Ice” and sickle.

Traveling through the window of the mind (Waymar’s eye and/or Will’s ears), a vortex into the subconscious, we exit through Bran’s eyes and see “Ice”, the sword, brought forth.

Quote

He could not see the smile. Hard as he tried, he could not see it. He found himself thinking of the deserter his father had beheaded the day they'd found the direwolves. "You said the words," Lord Eddard had told him. "You took a vow, before your brothers, before the old gods and the new." Desmond and Fat Tom had dragged the man to the stump. Bran's eyes had been wide as saucers, and Jon had to remind him to keep his pony in hand. He remembered the look on Father's face when Theon Greyjoy brought forth Ice, the spray of blood on the snow, the way Theon had kicked the head when it came rolling at his feet.

Gared and the horse, through some more wordplay, symbolize the sands of time [outlined in another post]. The idea of the original “Ice” [a time piece] coming from the abyss [Mentioned above] I believe define space/time in this series.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Nadden

[Sandy Clegg]

Quote

His fingers moved across the strings of the high harp, filling the throne room with sweet sound. "From his throne of bones the Lord of Death looked down on the murdered lord," Hamish began, and went on to tell how Renly, repenting his attempt to usurp his nephew's crown, had defied the Lord of Death himself and crossed back to the land of the living to defend the realm against his brother.

And for this poor Symon wound up in a bowl of brown, Tyrion mused.

 - A Storm of Swords  Tyrion VIII

That 'poor Symon' and persimmon are such nice soundalikes, I wonder if this isn't one of GRRM's more obscure clues. But where could it lead us? Persimmons are most closely associated with Daenerys, of course. Could the retelling of Renly's Ghost be an allusion to Dany's future perhaps? She almost certainly does have a nephew (Jon) whose crown she would be about to potentially 'usurp', should she make it to Westeros and claim the Iron Throne ...

[Sandy Clegg]

On 5/17/2016 at 1:46 PM, Evolett said:

I just looked up House Lonmouth - their words are "The Choice Is Yours" so perhaps this is a clue to skulls as death and kisses as life. Still, would this be a warm or a cold raising? Mel sees Patchface with bloody red lips in the midst of skulls in one of her visions. Hmm.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Lonmouth

I've mentioned this before, but the 'red lips strewn on yellow' + the yellow skulls on black are worth looking at visually. So take a look at the link above and study the image of Lonmouth's sigil.

The 'red lips strewn on yellow' creates a pattern uncannily like a brick wall. Whether the artist of this sigil was aware of this or not, the similarity is there and could be something that George had planned out when designing the look of House Lonmouth's arms. Presumably their house words also came from George, despite not appearing in the novels.

This gives us a strong 'skulls sealed behind walls' motif for House Lonmouth (which is possibly that of Lem Lemoncloak as others have speculated.)

Coupled with 'The Choice is Yours' house words, this walled-up skulls image is very interesting. The first things that come to my mind are Varys and Littlefinger's interactions with Ned in book one.

Baelish has this to say on the subject of skulls in walls:

Littlefinger led him into a tower, down a stair, across a small sunken courtyard, and along a deserted corridor where empty suits of armor stood sentinel along the walls. They were relics of the Targaryens, black steel with dragon scales cresting their helms, now dusty and forgotten. "This is not the way to my chambers," Ned said.

"Did I say it was? I'm leading you to the dungeons to slit your throat and seal your corpse up behind a wall," Littlefinger replied, his voice dripping with sarcasm. "We have no time for this, Stark. Your wife awaits."

Then, talking to Eddard in his cell as he awaits his fate, Varys says to him:

"The next visitor who calls on you could bring you bread and cheese and the milk of the poppy for your pain … or he could bring you Sansa's head.

"The choice, my dear lord Hand, is entirely yours."

Unlikely to be mere coincidence in my opinion, but to what end?

Edited December 18, 2023 by Sandy Clegg

[SaffronLady]

"Mander" means "summon" in French. I suppose we should expect a summoning from some thing related to the river.

[Nadden]

On 3/6/2022 at 11:02 AM, HoodedCrow said:

The Reeds know their events, as if more literate. They are obviously more informed than Bran. I note other use of Reader, but maybe it is more than just a word for swamp dwellers. Perhaps reading makes you like a green seer, in terms of having many lives and the ability to access past, present and even future ( proception). 

I think in the same way.

How bout Howland Reed as: how to read  the land……?

Waymar’s duel takes place in an ancient caldera which cradles a symbol of duality, the Yin and Yang symbol.

[Sandy Clegg]

4 hours ago, Nadden said:

How bout Howland Reed as: how to read  the land……?

 

I've never seen this before, and I'll chew over anything that looks interesting word-wise.  Seems kind of caveman-ish in terms of language though.

[Seams]

"Howl" and Read seems more likely. Arya uses a howl as a signal. There is also wordplay around wohl (German for "well") / whole / howl, I believe. As well as "hole." 

[Sandy Clegg]

On 1/11/2024 at 1:16 PM, SaffronLady said:

"Mander" means "summon" in French. I suppose we should expect a summoning from some thing related to the river.

I found some other derivations:

The name "Mander" is of Dutch origin and has several possible meanings and associations. One possible meaning is that it is derived from the Dutch word "mander," which means "basketmaker" or "weaver." This suggests that the name may have originally been an occupational surname for someone who was involved in the trade of making baskets or weaving. However, it is important to note that the exact etymology of the name is still debated among linguists and historians. https://www.nameopia.com/name/Mander.html

Meandering and weaving are both things that a river might be said to do, so maybe that's what George was getting at?