Seams Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 1 hour ago, GloubieBoulga said: This "pig stuff" reminds me that I had also noted some things about the pigs (and the boar) as kind of fallen/"dethroned" bears, especially in the saga : Robert appears like a bear and like a pig, but same metaphor is about Samwell Tarly, and also for Tyrion. And when the bear is a pig, he is hunted and killed by lions or wolves or others predators (and eaten by crows ?). But I didn't have yet studied these points. This is exactly right, I think. I've noticed the relationship between bear and boar (and bore), and even connected it to the name Robb (which, of course, is related to Robert). @sweetsunray pointed out that bears are often described as strong, which gives us another link - to Ser Robert Strong. Your idea of the "dethroned" bear may be the missing piece, and would explain why the verb change from present tense (bear) to past tense (bore) would transform a bear into a boar. The references to boars representing regime change go back at least as far as April 2014 in this forum, but that connection to the bear has not been fully examined. I think the wolf deaths are also related. Maybe we will also find out why Dany wears a lion pelt. I think the execution of the direwolf, Lady - ordered by Robert; executed by Ned - is going to tie into the death of Lyanna Stark. The beheaded direwolf arises again at the death of Robb Stark, whose head was supposedly replaced with the head of his direwolf. Later we meet Ser Robert Strong - the name of the dead king, but beheaded. Recall that King Robert's head was fine after his hunting mishap with the boar, but his body was destroyed. If we can pin down the connections and patterns of the deaths of these large mammals, we may be able to pinpoint the meaning of the bear / boar connection. (Can we save Ser Jorah before it's too late!? What will happen to Maege and Lyanna Mormont?) If there is a cycle of the Winter King and Summer King, we do see a fairly good alternating pattern: Summer king Robert dies - killed by a boar; Winter king Ned dies. (King Robert also wanted the boar meat served at his funeral feast, so he was already anticipating the cycle of killing and replacing the next boar.) Renly dies; Robb dies; Joffrey dies after demanding that Tyrion ride a pig. Jon Snow "dies" after teaming up with a boar skinchanger . . . I realize that you could argue that Ned and Jon are not kings, that Balon Greyjoy doesn't seem to fit the alternating pattern, and that Jeor Mormont is a bear who dies, but he isn't a king. (Although I think his death with Craster represents the death of a bear and a ram together.) And you point out that Sam Tarly as Ser Piggy is part of the pig motif. There is also a lot of pig symbolism associated with Brienne. Which prove the need for fuller examination. I don't know whether we can decode pigs in isolation, or whether they won't make sense unless we look at bears / boars (and wolves, lions - maybe rams? dragons?) at the same time. Here's another twist: Because "bore" is the past tense of "bear," does GRRM want us to make "whore" the past tense of "weir"? That might explain where whores go . . . 2 hours ago, GloubieBoulga said: I come with a possible wordplay (perhaps it was already noted and I missed it) : - laughter/laugh and slaughter. It appears very clear in a Tyrion's chapter, during the Blackwater battle : I never noted it before (I wasn't reading the whole saga in english, as I do yet), but this calls me, especially joined to the "battle-fever" who speaks from a kind of possession (and perhaps, it could be the occasion for a greenseer to "dream" a battle inside a fighting person - perhaps it is a clue that it's really what happens). It made me remembering the Laughing tree, but also the mocking bird of LF, and Cersei's dream when she is bit and eated by the iron throne and she sees at the same time Tyrion hard laughing at her (her first chapter in AFFC, if I remember well). And to finish, the Others in the prologue. Note also that at the end of his chapter (the one of the "battle fever"), Tyrion is croaking like a crow (not so far from "cracking" like ice, perhaps). These are terrific insights! It's also interesting to note that there is a lot of laughter about the jousting dwarfs and the bedding ritual at the purple and red weddings immediately before the slaughter begins. I expect the laughter / slaughter wordplay might also help us to sort out the references to butchers and butcher kings (which probably ties back into the bear / boar / bore pun). I wonder whether GRRM also wants us to connect "laugh" and "fall"? They are not spelled alike, but they would sound alike if reversed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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