Lost Melnibonean Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 11 hours ago, RoamingRonin said: Cersei, AFFC: Sansa, ASOS: Sansa, ASOS: Has Margaery learned a neat trick from her grandmother to hide her treason? Good question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted February 17, 2016 Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 2 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said: In the Accursed Kings, one of the three women is not guilty of adultery, she is the lookout (as Cersei suggests one of Marg's cousins might be). If the parallels run very closely, I would think that Margaery is perhaps the lookout, and simply facilitates her cousins indiscretions. While that is true, Taena tells Cersei Alla Tyrell is the innocent one of the group. So it could be her or Marge that played the lookout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Knute Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 3 hours ago, Maxxine said: I just can't finger her out. Freudian slip? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 1 hour ago, RoamingRonin said: While that is true, Taena tells Cersei Alla Tyrell is the innocent one of the group. So it could be her or Marge that played the lookout. That's definitely true. it could also be the case that only one cousin is not innocent, in which case I supect it would be Elinor - This post was enough to at least make me consider it anyway. I'm just not sure it makes a lot of narrative sense for Margaery to be guilty, especially when we don't see anyone in particular whomay actually be her lover. And remember that the Blue Bard was tortured. If he had been singing to cover Marg and her lover, I think he would have told Cersei and Qyburn. I know Cersei wasn't interested in the truth, but it's still the sort of thing The Blue Bard would try to admit to make it stop - it's exactly the sort of confession Cersei wants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyoftheNorth72 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Stupidity on all sides, unless the Tyrells have a plan for the outcome of all this. It has been mentioned in past threads on this subject that moon tea also may be prescribed to virgins/ sexually inactive women who have difficulty with their time of the month, similar to the mini pill. Relying on a pharmaceutical tisane (no doubt mixed in different strengths, manners, and possibly with varying ingredients) to ensure no pregnancies would have been just as stupid then as counting days now. There also simply never seems to be a likely lover for Marg, and I can't see her taking the risk of cheating on the king without serious, major, teenage, "but I LOVE HIM!" going on. And Olenna must have taught her better than that. At least Cersei had the minimal sense not to name Loras, since not only would it have brought more attention to the accusations about Jaime, but the entire kingdom knows Loras is gay. Well, except 11 year old girls with crushes on him who don't know homosexuality exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Yes. I should have included that. Not to mention Taena telling Cersei one of Marge's cousins made out with a pot boy and Sansa recalls the cousins kissing each other for practice. Littlefinger even says Marge doesn't care for a crown or her maidenhead which is such an odd thing to say. What did he learn when he visited the Tyrells? Considering Martin lifted this subplot from something he read in the Accursed Kings series, which is based on an actual event where the accused were found guilty, I lean toward conclusion that Marge and/or her cousins have been sexually active. I'm trying to think which would be funnier - if Cersei was completely off base and Marge was chaste as they come, or if she was having an affair(s) but Cersei was so incompetent that she couldn't find the right person(s). Also, are there theories that Margery isn't straight, or have I somehow accidentally imposed that idea on to her myself? I've never thought that about Margaery. Actually, it might be very much in Margaery's interest (if it looked as if she was going to lose) for her to claim that she engaged in sexual activity with other women. While it would damage her reputation, it would not constitute adultery or treason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 He cringed. “Moon tea,” he whispered. “Moon tea, for . . .” “I know what moon tea is for.” It's plausible that Pycelle didn't mean "for what", but "for whom" and didn't correct Cersei, because he simply was terrified of her. Might be that that "whom" was someone inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, and Margaery wasn't too worried about sharing that secret with Pycelle, because that secret wasn't worth all that much. Yes. I should have included that. Not to mention Taena telling Cersei one of Marge's cousins made out with a pot boy and Sansa recalls the cousins kissing each other for practice. Littlefinger even says Marge doesn't care for a crown or her maidenhead which is such an odd thing to say. What did he learn when he visited the Tyrells? Considering Martin lifted this subplot from something he read in the Accursed Kings series, which is based on an actual event where the accused were found guilty, I lean toward conclusion that Marge and/or her cousins have been sexually active. Marguerite and Blanche of Burgundy came over as being very silly. Margaery seems far more shrewd and cautious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 4 hours ago, LadyoftheNorth72 said: Stupidity on all sides, unless the Tyrells have a plan for the outcome of all this. It has been mentioned in past threads on this subject that moon tea also may be prescribed to virgins/ sexually inactive women who have difficulty with their time of the month, similar to the mini pill. Relying on a pharmaceutical tisane (no doubt mixed in different strengths, manners, and possibly with varying ingredients) to ensure no pregnancies would have been just as stupid then as counting days now. There also simply never seems to be a likely lover for Marg, and I can't see her taking the risk of cheating on the king without serious, major, teenage, "but I LOVE HIM!" going on. And Olenna must have taught her better than that. At least Cersei had the minimal sense not to name Loras, since not only would it have brought more attention to the accusations about Jaime, but the entire kingdom knows Loras is gay. Well, except 11 year old girls with crushes on him who don't know homosexuality exists. Making allegations of incest against Loras wouldn't be so implausible in Westeros as they would be to us. In general, the view seems to be that homosexuality is simply a preference, and that homosexuals are quite capable of sexual relations with women if they choose eg " I don't like fish, but I'll eat it when it's set before me" or "A man may prefer hippocras, but set a flagon of ale before him, and he'll quaff from it." But, it would likely have driven a fatal breach between Cersei and the Tyrells, and that's probably why she didn't press that particular issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxxine Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 I just can't finger her out. Freudian slip? Lol [emoji23] More like that damn autocorrect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Knute Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Maxxine said: Freudian slip? Lol More like that damn autocorrect Yeah I hate that with a passion... I'd guessed that you meant figure her out but that auto correct was actually funny for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran the Shipper Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 My impression is that Margaery did have sex with Renly, they were married and if he is to be king he will need heirs. As for the moon tea, it is more difficult to say what that is about. I could see Pycelle lying to help Cersei, or at least I could if this was the beginning of the series but by now Pycelle had grown a backbone and wouldn't be so inclined to help Cersei in her follies. I can see Margaery getting the moon tea for someone else if their position prevents them from making such a move. I don't think Margaery is skilled enough in the game of thrones to understand how terrible such an act would be. She also seems relatively kind hearted so it isn't unreasonable that she would do so to help one of her cousins or whoever had need of it. Either way Pycelle being killed was probably done so that the truth, Margaery is innocent in regards to the moon tea, isn't known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 On 16.02.2016 at 7:25 PM, A Song of Ass and Fire said: Off topic, I have been re-reading the Thousand Worlds stories and was reminded last night where I had heard your name before. The real fun part is, I still have no idea what my nickname actually means. It's anyone's guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyoftheNorth72 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 11 hours ago, SeanF said: Making allegations of incest against Loras wouldn't be so implausible in Westeros as they would be to us. In general, the view seems to be that homosexuality is simply a preference, and that homosexuals are quite capable of sexual relations with women if they choose eg " I don't like fish, but I'll eat it when it's set before me" or "A man may prefer hippocras, but set a flagon of ale before him, and he'll quaff from it." But, it would likely have driven a fatal breach between Cersei and the Tyrells, and that's probably why she didn't press that particular issue. There's quite a difference between incest and homosexuality. The most pragmatic, in this instance, is that a known homosexual man would not be having an ongoing, purely-for-kicks incestuous relationship with his sister. Loras loves Margaery. Jaime is IN LOVE WITH Cersei. Also, Westeros seems well enough put off by incest between anyone outside the Targs, considering the charming new nickname they give Cersei after Stannis's letters go out. Then to take it a giant step forward by intentionally / knowingly having your brother's children and passing them off as those of the popular king... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Making allegations of incest against Loras wouldn't be so implausible in Westeros as they would be to us. In general, the view seems to be that homosexuality is simply a preference, and that homosexuals are quite capable of sexual relations with women if they choose eg " I don't like fish, but I'll eat it when it's set before me" or "A man may prefer hippocras, but set a flagon of ale before him, and he'll quaff from it." But, it would likely have driven a fatal breach between Cersei and the Tyrells, and that's probably why she didn't press that particular issue. There's quite a difference between incest and homosexuality. The most pragmatic, in this instance, is that a known homosexual man would not be having an ongoing, purely-for-kicks incestuous relationship with his sister. Loras loves Margaery. Jaime is IN LOVE WITH Cersei. Also, Westeros seems well enough put off by incest between anyone outside the Targs, considering the charming new nickname they give Cersei after Stannis's letters go out. Then to take it a giant step forward by intentionally / knowingly having your brother's children and passing them off as those of the popular king... One of the things that amuses me about Cersei is her willingness to accuse others of the things that she herself does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyoftheNorth72 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Agreed... And she seems the most offended by the sins she herself is most guilty of. I always think about Taena telling Cersei that she was not a maid when she married, and Cersei thinking "you're all sluts in the Free Cities." That's quite a gloat, coming from a woman who slept with her brother before slipping into the bath for her own wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melisandre's White Pubes Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said: The real fun part is, I still have no idea what my nickname actually means. It's anyone's guess. I think it means a fierce roaring creature from the veldt, myself. Probably a lion as it's a Leonese ship name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alienor Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Well, just because Margery doesn't want Cersei to know what exactly she is talking about to her cousins doesn't mean she has an affair on the side. Margery is a clever girl, much too clever to risk everything, including her head, for some stupid affair in the middle of the Lannister held capital. She's just not that dumb, and even if she was, Olenna would lay into her like nobody business until she stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raisin' Bran Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 The whole moon tea fiasco has made little sense to me since I read AFfC in 2012. 1. I did believe that Pycelle made moon tea on a regular basis, implying that whatever Margaery needed the tea for was a recurring issue. I did think that it may have been meant as a "monthly cycle" regulator. This, to me, made the most sense. Though I have not seen any evidence to support the theory that moon tea would regulate like that. 2. The idea that Margaery needed it to counteract extra-marital "activities", made some sense. But as many have stated, Olenna would have lain into her to prevent any sort of "stupid teenage decisions". 3. I had also considered that Margaery got the tea as an attempt to entrap Cercei to over extend herself. The idea that she would implicate herself on the off chance that she could oust Cercei, seems farfetched. Too many things could have gone wrong. 4. I had not considered that the tea was for one of her cousins. I didnt know enough about them to even consider them. The truth is, we really do not know much about Margaery's character save for what Sansa, Cercei, Tyrion, and Jaime think. All that they have seen could be genuine, or could be complete bologna. It is probably somewhere in between the two extremes, as no one is that pure in this tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daena the Defiant Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 The moon tea was for cousin Elinor, who was a flirty bawdy girl but also betrothed. Mark my words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 31 minutes ago, Daena the Defiant said: The moon tea was for cousin Elinor, who was a flirty bawdy girl but also betrothed. Mark my words. I provided a link to a post you made in another thread about that on the last page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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