So Maybe It's Not All GRRM's Fault (Vast Majority his Fault but Not All)

[JonCon's Red Beard]

16 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

There was a lot of material that could be adapted but it would have been dull, like the books generally were. 

Jesus Christ Almighty in Heaven and in the Manger when he was a Baby, that's my point...

IF the books are dull, what you do is take what is dull and make it interesting. That's what I said. If the books are nothing but travellogs or dialogue, you spice things up, not change the whole recipe and expect the same result.

But of course, you would need TALENTED writers for that. GoT doesn't have that.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

15 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

I don't mean to sound macabre or disrespectful but GRRM is 67.  Already 2 years past the UK retirement age.  The way things are going the books will be finished when he is 72 to 77 (I still maintain that unless he really rushes it there is no way the books are being finished in two more novels, not if the original plan was to have Dany arrive at Westeros at the beginning of book four and the series to be a five book series).  It's a tough ask for someone in their 70's to be working full time.

You know, this "the dude is old" is getting... old.

The candidate I'm voting for is sixty something and another one is 77. They're travelling all over the country, crossing rivers and mountains and no one says "omg, he's gonna die!" (ok, some do). It's not like Martin does some sort of Xtreme Sport that endangers his life.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

16 hours ago, Lautrec said:

What didn't we get from Feast and Dance? fAegon, Quentyn, Jaime in Riverlands, and the Greyjoys? The first is the worst ass-pull Martin has done,

Yes, he totally pulled it from his ass in book 2.

16 hours ago, Lautrec said:

the second the worst waste of time,

Yes, because you already have book six and you know how relevant his participation will be. Lucky you, can you share the book with us, please? Thanks.

16 hours ago, Lautrec said:

and the last two we are getting in Season 6.

After they added up filler in their plots, which make what is coming next, completely irrelevant (not to say that what they already did probably will be too).

 

[Lautrec]

9 minutes ago, JonCon's Red Beard said:

Yes, he totally pulled it from his ass in book 2.

Yes, because you already have book six and you know how relevant his participation will be. Lucky you, can you share the book with us, please? Thanks.

After they added up filler in their plots, which make what is coming next, completely irrelevant (not to say that what they already did probably will be too).

 

Oh please, book 2? That one portion of a single scene that barely counts as foreshadowing? If Aegon had been introduced in book 2, then fine, but he wasn't. It is the most obvious ass-pull out of all of them. Introducing such a completely irrelevant and faux-important element 4000 pages into the story was a horrible decision. The last thing ADWD needed after Feast was more characters and plotlines at the expense of the actual primary characters.

Adapting Quentyn, that is to say, giving him his own scenes like in the book would be terrible, because of the way his story ends in Dance. As an off-screen character who is mentioned once in Dorne and shows up once in Meereen, it would have been acceptable, but not enough to fill a whole new season. 

I have no idea what that last sentence means. But my question still stands, what elements of Feast and Dance could they have taken to have enough material for one or two additional seasons?

[Dragon in the North]

38 minutes ago, JonCon's Red Beard said:

 

IF the books are dull, what you do is take what is dull and make it interesting. That's what I said. If the books are nothing but travellogs or dialogue, you spice things up, not change the whole recipe and expect the same result.

The problem with AFFC/ADWD isn't just because they're dull, it's because they're filler. Spicing up filler doesn't change the fact that it's filler.

[Lady Snow]

6 hours ago, Kienn said:

Yea but all 3 LotR are like the length of GoT...

Plus LotR is like garbage.

The only good part of LotR is the silmarillion and that's incomplete... so... yea...

You took the words right out of my mouth although I wouldn't say they were garbage but to me the LOTR to me is like a children's book which I read when I was a child and far inferior to ASOIAF, not to mention a whole lot less complex. I also don't understand why people think Tolkien is a better writer than GRRM, to me it's definitely the other way around.

[dsug]

The first three books were full of plot twists and intrigue and huge, cinematic scenes just begging to be filmed. The White Walker prologue, Ned's execution, the birth of the dragons, the Battle of Blackwater, buying the Unsullied, the Red Wedding, the Purple Wedding, Tyrion's courtroom trial, the Mountain vs the Viper, the Battle at Castle Black, Tywin's murder! And the show crushed every single one of them.

And then...nothing. George lost all notion of spectacle, of fantasy. The momentum of the first three books stopped in its fucking tracks. Cersei sits around feeling bad for herself. Tyrion sits around feeling bad for himself. Daenerys sits around feeling bad for herself. Jon sits around feeling bad for himself. And nothing happens. 

The only scenes I can think of in books four and five that would make for exciting TV are Cersei's arrest, Daznak's Pit, the Walk of Shame, and the mutiny at Castle Black. The Show did all over those. And they were fantastic. But it's not enough. All of those together are maybe 20 minutes worth of television. 

I think George is over it, tbh. Can't blame him for getting bored after twenty years, but he should be considered that before allowing them to adapt material he hasn't yet written. George loves his fame. He's maybe like the second author who I've ever seen on a late night show. He likes the attention. Can't blame him, but he does kind of a job to do. 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

3 hours ago, Lautrec said:

Oh please, book 2? That one portion of a single scene that barely counts as foreshadowing?

<snip

Actually, the foreshadowing for Aegon begins in book one with Ned's remembering how the baby's face had been smashed beyond recognition. I have no idea how 90% of the readers managed to miss that giant flashing neon sign that practically shouted "Aegon is coming."  Whether the kid is real or not, he's been in the works since the first book. Only reason he didn't come in until the fifth is because the middle of the story took steroids and needed longer to explain...oh and the fact that bringing him in before that would TOTALLY SCREW EVERYTHING UP.  He can't come in before there's a high level of chaos in Westeros. Can't play the savior if you come into a stable country and destroy it.

Is anyone on this thread a writer?  *crickets* 

Comparing writing novels as a profession to any standard job is ridiculous. Yeah, you have to meet deadlines. Do any of the projects you're talking about have to come 100% from your own imagination?  I'm guessing no.  Unless you are 1) a writer, 2) a writer who writes the way Martin does, and 3) a writer who is writing an epic series with a cast of thousands...do us all a favor and quit whining.  Did you complain like this when you were a kid and dinner was late?

 

3 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

The problem with AFFC/ADWD isn't just because they're dull, it's because they're filler. Spicing up filler doesn't change the fact that it's filler.

It's not filler. It's set-up that couldn't be accomplished in the first three books because there was too much action that had to be included. The politics are important to the story as well, and we weren't getting enough of that (or Cersei's crazy yet enjoyable POV) in books 1-3.  You are aware that there are people (not myself, but I know they exist) who would name AFFC, if not ADWD, as their favorite book of the entire series thus far, are you not?