Jump to content
UnmaskedLurker

A+J=T v.9

Recommended Posts

On 6/8/2016 at 7:15 AM, Suzanna Stormborn said:

Dude! Totes agree!!  I have been saying all of exactly this for so long.  LIke hello, the Targaryen history and family tree is LITTERED with bastards.  The Targs are fire hot, high-passion, extremely sexy and attractive people for the most part.  Aerys was certainly one of these in his youth, just like Rhaegar.  Why is he singled out as the only Targ king to never have a bastard or children with multiple women?? Even St. Rhaegar did, they all have.  Look at Dany's sex drive, lol, or Tyrion's for that matter.  In the midst of death and destruction all around them, they both still want to get laid as often as possible.  

People hate the idea that Jon is not the one and only secret Targ or whatever. Tehy get mad about Dany being special because they only want Jon to be special lol, which makes no sense.  Personally I dont mind at all if Jon and Dany are both special.  I mean she's the (almost) fireproof one, so Dany fans are covered.  If people want to hate all over the Targaryens to make the Stark's look better, then maybe they are trying too hard.  IMO the Direwolves are equally as cool as the dragons.  The ice and fire magical abilities and animals are just two faces of the same coin.  One is not necessarily better than the other.

Honestly, it feels good that there are some like minded people who are on the same page as AJT because it's not easy to stand against the majority on such a divisive and polarizing theory for so long. For years now I've basically been counting on the show to prove the theory right since it doesn't seem like we're getting the books any time soon, unfortunately. 

As for the people hating on the Targaryens more than the Starks, incest is another area where it's seen as okay or at least tolerable for the Starks to be 'special' in this regard but not the Targaryens. The world book revealed the examples of uncle/niece marriages and cousin marriage and I suspect this went a long way in keeping the blood "pure" as the Targaryens were inclined to do. (I don't think the same reasoning was behind the decisions for incestuous marriage, but the end result of so-called pure blood is the same.**) Lyanna had wolf blood on both sides just as Rhaegar had the blood of the dragon on both sides so Jon really is ice and fire.

The Starks were initially seen as being above being the incestuous creeps that the Targaryens (and Lannisters) are labeled to be, so I laughed out loud at how many minds would be blown by the examples of Starkcest in the world book. Then we got that summary from the early 90s that revealed that Jon/Arya was originally part of the plan. Cue a bunch of theories that more Starkcest will be in future books (and the show) and it's basically seen as okay for them. 

**I want to note here that it seems like the Targaryens themselves seem to have forgotten the reasons that the Valyrian dragonriding families practiced incest in the first place. The world book gives every indication that some kind of blood magic was used so that the Valyrians were the only ones who were ever able to bond with and control dragons even though multiple non Valyrians had time, access, and motivation to try to become dragonriders themselves.

I think the Targaryens probably made mistakes by intermarrying with houses of non-Valyrian blood and this, coupled with keeping the dragons in the dragonpit, likely contributed to the decline of them being dragonlords. This is all in addition of course to the devastation of the Dance.

For a long time people put out the idea that the Targaryens were just the hillbillies of the Valyrian Freehold and that they were likely the only ones to practice incest openly and of course not only do we learn that the other dragonriding families were doing it, but that brother/sister unions were thought to be "ideal". 

With Tyrion, I don't think it's an accident that he's sexually attracted to Cersei in spite of how awful she is. He's made it clear that he's jealous of the relationship Jaime has with her. I'd say most of this is down to Tyrion feeling unloved by everyone save Jaime and maybe the occasional uncle, but I also suspect that part of this is due to that Targaryen trait where some of them are just naturally attracted to their siblings. (Incest in the asoiaf world clearly has very different rules and outcomes than in our world. Not only are beautiful, smart, and capable children born of multiple incestuous unions in this story, but there are multiple examples of siblings inexplicably falling in love and/or being sexually attracted mutually or otherwise, without at all being grossed out at the idea.)

 

Edited by Rhaechyll Targaryen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

I think the Green and Black eyes are a representation of internal struggle....the Greens and the Blacks warring within their own family.  And yet another connection to the Targaryens

Could be, but I think it is a hint that Tyrion will betray Daenerys for Aegon in the Second Dance of the Dragons. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

Dude! Totes agree!!  I have been saying all of exactly this for so long.  LIke hello, the Targaryen history and family tree is LITTERED with bastards.  The Targs are fire hot, high-passion, extremely sexy and attractive people for the most part.  Aerys was certainly one of these in his youth, just like Rhaegar.  Why is he singled out as the only Targ king to never have a bastard or children with multiple women?? Even St. Rhaegar did, they all have.  Look at Dany's sex drive, lol, or Tyrion's for that matter.  In the midst of death and destruction all around them, they both still want to get laid as often as possible.  

People hate the idea that Jon is not the one and only secret Targ or whatever. Tehy get mad about Dany being special because they only want Jon to be special lol, which makes no sense.  Personally I dont mind at all if Jon and Dany are both special.  I mean she's the (almost) fireproof one, so Dany fans are covered.  If people want to hate all over the Targaryens to make the Stark's look better, then maybe they are trying too hard.  IMO the Direwolves are equally as cool as the dragons.  The ice and fire magical abilities and animals are just two faces of the same coin.  One is not necessarily better than the other.

 

 

Baby Girl did you just say Totes agree? Oh Suzy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Could be, but I think it is a hint that Tyrion will betray Daenerys for Aegon in the Second Dance of the Dragons. 

Ummm that's anyone's guess, but it would seem unlikely. There is this theory on Cyvasse a game tied well enough to Tyrion that should be looked at, and recently LmL had a theory on Gargoyles, which got into a conversation about Sphinxes, Gargoyles, Cyvasse and Tyrion, dealing with symbolism. Some great points were made, very interesting stuff. 

So there is this idea that LmL has that symbolism ties the Gargoyle to Tyrion. I agree with this, and the Gargoyle is a guardian and associated with Water, and Lions. This idea is supported by Bran and Tyrion himself. Don't worry I will get to the colors. We meet Tyrion is perched above a door, we later seem him at the wall pissing off it. Tyrion the Gargoyle meets and befriends Jon. Those are those two scenes. Bran falls from a Gargoyle he thinks that they may have once been lions, (current theory I am working on, not going to do that now.) Tyrion is framed for Brans attempted murder. As the Gargoyle is also blamed for his fall but both are wrong. But Tyrion is tied to Valyrian steel in that moment.

Later Tyrion will be framed for the murder of Joff. Poison, purple poison, and Tyrions eyes support the idea of the Manticore a poisonous black and green creature. But they would be wrong, Tyrion did not do it. He has never poisoned anyone.

 Riddles and Sphinxes.

"Tyrion mentions to Brown Ben Plumm most of the stories heard about dragons are fodder for fools - one of which is dragons riddling with sphinxes."

Varys and Tyrion are riddling. Indicating Varys may be a dragon. (Don't worry Suzy, I will get to Tyrion Targaryen)

"In a room sit three great men, a king, a priest, and a rich man with his gold. Between them stands a sellsword, a little man of common birth and no great mind. Each of the great ones bids him slay the other two. ‘Do it,’ says the king, ‘for I am your lawful ruler.’ ‘Do it,’ says the priest, ‘for I command you in the names of the gods.’ ‘Do it,’ says the rich man, ‘and all this gold shall be yours.’ So tell me – who lives and who dies?”

The answer to the Riddle.

“So power is a mummer’s trick?”
“A shadow on the wall,” Varys murmured, “yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow.”
Tyrion smiled. “Lord Varys, I am growing strangely fond of you. I may kill you yet, but I think I’d feel sad about it.”

Jon and Tyrion will both be connected to large shadows, as well as Drogon. I also think later this means Tyrion will kill Varys, even though he likes him. Varys is on the wrong team.

Early in thrones Tyrion will note a pair of Valyrian Sphinxes with black faces. Later Tyrion will come across Valyrian Sphinx Queen, missing her king, Tyrion thinks that is a poor Omen and wonders why the Dothraki have not taken the Queen (Pretty sure that problem will be resolved.) Again Tyrion and the Sphinxes.

Sam. Sam when in Old Town also comes across a pair of Sphinxes, but they are not Valyrian, bodies of Lions not dragons. They are green, green lions. But when it comes to black, Valyrian. Lion Green, Dragon Black. And Black is heavily associated with the Valyrians and Targaryens. Think tow sides of a chess board, black white pieces. This is from the Cyvasse theory. Dragonstone, Black fused stone, Valyrian road black fused stone, Drogon, Balarion the Black Dread, The base of their Sigil, Balarion the Cat, Dany sits on a Black bench, she rides a black dragon, Jon Snow a Black Brother, who dresses in Black. He has his Stark side of course, he is not a pure Dragon like Dany, same for Tyrion, a Sphinx, half. Now what you see is this Lion Gargoyle Tyrion, transforming into a Sphinx, he is getting closer and closer to his Valyrian side.

Transformation happens all the time we see it with Dany, transforming from the Moon to the Sun in the pyre. The color we see from the Lion Sphinx and the Dragon Sphinx, Green and Black and green is associated with Lannisters as Black is with Valyrians and Targaryens. Black and Green, Dragon and Lion.

Now when you look at the riddle that Varys asked Tyrion, and the Vision which is a riddle which Moqorro tells him:

"Dragons," Moqorro said in the Common Tongue of Westeros... "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all."

They mirror, they are almost identical. And of course Moqorro the Black flame going to Dany to serve her.

Tyrion is not one of the Dragons because he is the Sphinx, but that does not stop him from being half Lion and half Dragon, in fact it enforces it.

Tyrion sees a lot of that Duality on his way to Dany. Near Valyria he sees a moon which he thinks is so large and bright it looks as if it had swallowed the sun. It's reflection mirrored upon the water. It's very representative of where Tyrion finds himself, after all Tyrion is tied to the water, he sits between this parallel. Dany has a parallel and Tyrion fits nicely between them, and what is the Sphinx? A guardian, a guardian of what? Dany more than likely, probably Jon too.

Not all my ideas, some are mine some are LmL and Rheaneys, and I just tied them together, from a different thread.

PS. The Night's King is an Andal, originally coming from the Vale, later becoming the Lannisters, (Lion of Night). The Night King is an Andal and a Lannister. Which is why we get so much Lion imagery with him, Lion of Night, Azor killed a Lion, Dany and her Lion Fur, Tyrion and his Lannister Half, the Lion killing a Dragon, Jaime and the Mad King, Rhaegar appearing in the heart of Casterly rock to Jaime, The King the Rat cook fed was either Tywell Lannister or Oswell Arryn,  Lion Sun symbolism, Arryn Moon symbolism.

This is why Tyrion is so very important, and why the Lannisters actually matter in then end game. Dany Sun and Moon, Jon Fire and Ice, Tyrion Lion and Dragon, Night's King Sun and Moon. He inverted what Dany did. From Sun to Moon, Dany Moon to Sun. What Tyrion saw a Moon that looked like it swallowed the Sun, Dany. Tywell Lannister, Lion Leo, the sun, he swallowed his own son Oswell Arryn, the moon. It's inverted. And what did he do? He made sacrifices to the Others. And he did he persue? The Night Queen. Who was she? There was a girl at the Night fort named Danny, a blue eyed girl Danny Flint. Might as well call her Danny fire, you think the name is a coincidence? A sacrifice to the Others who came back. Again it's inverted, Danny Night and Ice. Dany, Light and Fire.

Edited by Ser Creighton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Could be, but I think it is a hint that Tyrion will betray Daenerys for Aegon in the Second Dance of the Dragons. 

Dany is hot. Aegon is not. Tyrion will stick to the hot chick. After all, she is his half-sister, Aegon is just his stupid (fake) nephew.

However, I hope Aegon lives long enough to thank Tyrion for his kind advice - down from the Iron Throne and with smirk. Aegon's success should surprise Tyrion and come back to haunt him, dragonrider or not.

Edited by Lord Varys

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Dany is hot. Aegon is not. Tyrion will stick to the hot chick. After all, she is his half-sister, Aegon is just his stupid (fake) nephew.

However, I hope Aegon lives long enough to thank Tyrion for his kind advice - down from the Iron Throne and with smirk. Aegon success should surprise Tyrion and come back to haunt him, dragonrider or not.

Now, see, that is logic I can follow!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anybody ever catch this?

The George has compared dragons to snakes...

Quote

When she had her handmaids char the horsemeat black, the dragons ripped at it eagerly, their heads striking like snakes.

Daenerys I, Clash 12

And The George has described Tyrion as a talking snake...

Quote

Brown Ben's smile never reached his eyes. He studied Tyrion as a man might study a talking snake.

Tyrion XI, Dance 57

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Anybody ever catch this?

The George has compared dragons to snakes...

Daenerys I, Clash 12

And The George has described Tyrion as a talking snake...

Tyrion XI, Dance 57

Nice, I like it. 

Mot occurred to me the other day that when LC Mormont says to Tyrion "we need men like you on the Wall," it's a double reference implying the need for Targaryens (preferably with dragons) on the Wall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope not.  Ruins the irony that the one child that Tywin hated above all else is the one that is most like him.

Besides GRRM has said that the third head of the dragon doesn't necessarily mean it has to be someone of targaryan blood, assuming of course that it ends up being Tyrion. If I remember (I need to find the quote) he said it was more about them holding traditionally targaryan values  or something like that.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

I hope not.  Ruins the irony that the one child that Tywin hated above all else is the one that is most like him.

Besides GRRM has said that the third head of the dragon doesn't necessarily mean it has to be someone of targaryan blood, assuming of course that it ends up being Tyrion. If I remember (I need to find the quote) he said it was more about them holding traditionally targaryan values  or something like that.

 

No. He said the other head might not be a Targaryen. He didn't day anything about blood. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that Tyrion is definitely Tywin's son. I think that is the great irony and why Tywin hated him so much. I think Jamie and Cersei are Aerys'. Which is foreshadowed when Tyrion calls Joff, Aerys III.

That's Tywin's shame, because the one son her did make killed the woman he loved and was such a twisted, disgusting failure (in his eyes.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

No. He said the other head might not be a Targaryen. He didn't day anything about blood. 

Quite right. Quite right.  Found the quote.  I must have added more in from remembering another discussion about the third head. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/28/2016 at 10:54 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Anybody ever catch this?

The George has compared dragons to snakes...

Daenerys I, Clash 12

And The George has described Tyrion as a talking snake...

Tyrion XI, Dance 57

And this highly curious one through the eyes of Summer:

Yet as one smell drew them onward, others warned them back. He sniffed at the drifting smoke. Men, many men, many horses, and fire, fire, fire. No smell was more dangerous, not even the hard cold smell of iron, the stuff of man-claws and hardskin. The smoke and ash clouded his eyes, and in the sky he saw a great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame. He bared his teeth, but then the snake was gone. Behind the cliffs tall fires were eating up the stars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On April 22, 2016 at 3:15 AM, Shmedricko said:

Another connection between Aerys and Tyrion. These lines even occur in adjacent chapters. There's also Tyrion's remark about being "quite dragonless" in the sentence preceding his wildfire comment.

If A+J=T, then Tywin's cock didn't make Tyrion, and Tyrion himself would be a bastard, making this thought of his intensely ironic.

Young Griff and Tyrion were both referred to as dead, and they both said the exact same thing in response. The dialogue with Young Griff led up to the reveal that he was Aegon Targaryen, so this parallel might be a hint that a similar revelation is in store for Tyrion.

Tyrion's “false father” was also a great lord, assuming AJT.

Small correction, but there's no "n" in my username. Might be worth fixing whenever you get a chance.

Great catches here @Shmedricko! As someone who wrote a whole long essay about Tyrion Targaryen, I'm always excited to see new finds like this. The dip[ping in wildfire ting is super blatant... it's a match for him in AGOT confessing to Jon that's dreamt of roasting his family members in a fire and also that he used to dream of dragons... followed shortly by "you've had the same sorts of dreams, haven't you?" directed at Jon, another secret Targaryen bastard. Personally I think the collective dragon dream evidence is among the strongest evidence for Tyrion having dragon blood that there is. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1) I'm trying to compile all the descriptions of Tyrion's hair colour in the series, including his facial hair. Are there any that I'm missing?

Quote

One green eye and one black one peered out from under a lank fall of hair so blond it seemed white. (Jon I, AGOT)

Quote

Jaime Lannister smiled. "Quite true. I'm looking for my brother. You remember my brother, don't you, Lord Stark? He was with us at Winterfell. Fair-haired, mismatched eyes, sharp of tongue. A short man." (Eddard IX, AGOT)

Quote

He had let his beard grow to cover his pushed-in face, until it was a bristly tangle of yellow and black hair, coarse as wire. (Sansa I, ACOK)

Quote

When his bowels were empty, Tyrion slipped on a bedrobe and roughed his thin flaxen hair with his fingers, all the more to look as if he had wakened from sleep. (Tyrion VII, ACOK)

Quote

He scrubbed himself until the water grew cool, and then had Pod even out his whiskers. His beard was a trial to him; a tangle of yellow, white, and black hairs, patchy and coarse, it was seldom less than unsightly, but it did serve to conceal some of his face, and that was all to the good. (Tyrion II, ASOS)

Quote

She stared at the stunted legs, the swollen brutish brow, the green eye and the black one, the raw stump of his nose and crooked pink scar, the coarse tangle of black and gold hair that passed for his beard. (Sansa III, ASOS)

Quote

"Your head was monstrous huge, we heard, half again the size of your body, and you had been born with thick black hair and a beard besides, an evil eye, and lion's claws."

[...]

"You did have one evil eye, and some black fuzz on your scalp." (Tyrion V, ASOS)

Quote

Strands of hair, pale blond and black, clung to his brow, the rags of his tunic to his back. (Tyrion X, ADWD)

2) I was reading through the SSM on Shiera Seastar, and I noticed a bit of an inverse parallel between her mismatched eyes and Tyrion's. Shiera's eyes were said to enhance her beauty:

Quote

Shiera was born with one dark blue eye and one bright green one, but the singers said that this flaw only accentuated her loveliness.

While Tyrion's contribute to his ugliness:

Quote

With his bulging brow and mismatched eyes, he was still the ugliest man she had ever chanced to look upon. (Sansa I, ACOK)

Shiera was said to have used her eyes to melt men's hearts:

Quote

She had a heart-shaped face, full lips, and her mismatched eyes were strangely large and full of mischief; her rivals said she used them to melt men's hearts.

While Tyrion uses his to make men uncomfortable:

Quote

Something about Tyrion's mismatched green-and-black eyes made men squirm; knowing that, he made good use of them. (Tyrion IV, ACOK)

3) There's nothing really new here, but I found this 2009 SFF Chronicles post by the user Boaz about Jon's conversations with Benjen and Tyrion in his first chapter which I think is pretty spot on:

Quote

Now compare these two conversations. Compare the speakers... First, we have Benjen Stark and his nephew, Jon Snow. In the second, we have Tyrion Lannister and Jon Snow. Compare the gist of the interaction... Benjen gives Jon a history lesson while Tyrion gives him a life lesson.

Why would Tyrion Lannister go out of his way to assist Jon Snow? Isn't it strange that he gives better counsel than Jon's own uncle?

Is it Tyrion's inner character (to quote tsw, above) that makes him seem regal? Or is there something in his future? Or his past?

You all know I love the Tyraen Targaryen concept. What if Tyrion really is Aerys' bastard? Then we should not be surprised that his shadow appears kingly. Nor should we be surprised when Maester Aemon Targaryen calls him a giant.

Just as the Benjen-Jon conversation regarding the Young Dragon turned out differently than originally portrayed, what about the second conversation. What if Jon turns out not to be a bastard? What if he finds out that he is a trueborn son? What if Tyrion finds out that he really is a bastard?

Most of us think that R+L=J. Now combine this with Tyraen Targaryen... this would mean that Benjen is not Jon's uncle by Eddard (as we all suspect) but by Lyanna. On the other hand it means that now Tyrion is Jon's uncle as well. This might better explain the value of his advice. Of course, neither Tyrion nor Jon suspect their hidden Targaryen heritage... but I think that in Westeros that blood calls to blood. Somehow hidden blood calls to hidden blood. Somehow strangers come together.

For instance, Aemon calls Tyrion a giant. Bella offers to ring Gendry's bell. Aemon tells Jon his life story. It would better explain Jon and Tyrion's friendship.

I will just add that the idea of blood calling to blood is mentioned in the books:

Quote

The north was huge, though, and Brienne had no notion which of her father's bannermen Sansa might have been most inclined to trust. Or would she seek her own blood instead? Though all of her siblings had been slain, Brienne knew that Sansa still had an uncle and a bastard half brother on the Wall, serving in the Night's Watch. Another uncle, Edmure Tully, was a captive at the Twins, but his uncle Ser Brynden still held Riverrun. And Lady Catelyn's younger sister ruled the Vale. Blood calls to blood. Sansa might well have run to one of them. (Brienne II, AFFC)

Brienne was thinking about a person intentionally seeking out their own family at the time, but the general principle can still apply. It's been pointed out before that Tyrion has met many of the people who have or are suspected to have Targaryen blood in the series: Jon, Aemon, Varys, Illyrio, Aegon, and now he's on his way to Daenerys. If A+J=T, then these are Tyrion's relatives that he keeps unknowingly running into (some more distant than others).

4)

On 8/27/2016 at 9:14 PM, LmL said:

The dip[ping in wildfire ting is super blatant

Yeah. I had seen Tyrion's line mentioned on its own before as support for this theory, which I found compelling enough given all the other connections, but once I discovered that nearly the exact same language was used in reference to Aerys in the very previous chapter (only 5 pages apart in my version), that was just the icing on the cake for me.

 

5) In AFFC, Maester Aemon tells us this regarding the gender of dragons:

Quote

"Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame." (Samwell IV, AFFC)

In ADWD, Tyrion meets a hermaphrodite named Sweets, who has the violet eyes associated with the Valyrians:

Quote

his slaves included a boy with the legs and hooves of a goat, a bearded woman, a two-headed monster from Mantarys, and a hermaphrodite who warmed his bed at night. "Cock and cunny both," Dick Straw told them. (The Windblown, ADWD)

Quote

They would share this space with Yezzan's other treasures: a boy with twisted, hairy "goat legs," a two-headed girl out of Mantarys, a bearded woman, and a willowy creature called Sweets who dressed in moonstones and Myrish lace. "You are trying to decide if I'm a man or woman," Sweets said, when she was brought before the dwarfs. Then she lifted her skirts and showed them what was underneath. "I'm both, and master loves me best."

A grotesquerie, Tyrion realized. Somewhere some god is laughing. "Lovely," he said to Sweets, who had purple hair and violet eyes, "but we were hoping to be the pretty ones for once." (Tyrion X, ADWD)

And one of the rumors Oberyn mentioned about Tyrion's birth was the following:

Quote

"And well you might, since you were said to have one, a stiff curly tail like a swine's. Your head was monstrous huge, we heard, half again the size of your body, and you had been born with thick black hair and a beard besides, an evil eye, and lion's claws. Your teeth were so long you could not close your mouth, and between your legs were a girl's privates as well as a boy's." (Tyrion V, ASOS)

Another possible clue that Tyrion is a dragon. Also, this is a little off-topic, but to the above, Tyrion replied:

Quote

"Life would be much simpler if men could fuck themselves, don't you agree?"

And someone said the following about Sweets:

Quote

"Sweets can go fuck himself. He's made for it." (Tyrion XI, ADWD)

Thinking about these lines in the context of dragons got me thinking: Is it possible that dragons can self-fertilize?

6) In my last post I mentioned the conversation between Tyrion and Young Griff about the latter's "true father" and "false father". One detail I forgot to mention is that the only other time the phrase "true father" appears in the text is in one of Jon Snow's chapters:

Quote

"Maester Aemon was named for the Dragonknight."

"So he was. Some say Prince Aemon was King Daeron's true father, not Aegon the Unworthy. Be that as it may, our Aemon lacked the Dragonknight's martial nature." (Jon I, ACOK)

And when Maester Aemon relayed this same information to Jon, he added:

Quote

The old man touched the maester's chain that hung loosely around his thin, fleshless neck. "My father was Maekar, the First of his Name, and my brother Aegon reigned after him in my stead. My grandfather named me for Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, who was his uncle, or his father, depending on which tale you believe. Aemon, he called me …"

"Aemon … Targaryen?" Jon could scarcely believe it. (Jon VIII, AGOT)

Given the likelihood that Jon's "true father" is someone else than who the text originally established, I find it a little intriguing that this phrase and its inverse also appear in one of Tyrion's chapters, and nowhere else.

Edited by Shmedricko
Added a description of Tyrion's hair from Tyrion VII, ACOK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Shmedricko said:

Another possible clue that Tyrion is a dragon. Also, this is a little off-topic, but to the above, Tyrion replied:

Quote

"Life would be much simpler if men could fuck themselves, don't you agree?"

And someone said the following about Sweets:

Quote

"Sweets can go fuck himself. He's made for it." (Tyrion XI, ADWD)

Thinking about these lines in the context of dragons got me thinking: Is it possible that dragons can self-fertilize?

Hey @Shmedricko, I tend to agree with your observations here, in regards to characters with actual or implied hermaphrodism. The idea that dragons might be a sexual or capable of self-reproduction is interesting, and I actually had never thought of it. Most of the symbolism is based around penetration, quite honestly, swords as penises and all that, so I had not thought about asexual reproduction. But I can see how you could see that implication in these passages... then we have Dany's uncertain state in regards to fertility, and the idea of dragons as children or sacrificing your children to wake dragons. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Shmedricko said:

(...)

3) There's nothing really new here, but I found this 2009 SFF Chronicles post by the user Boaz about Jon's conversations with Benjen and Tyrion in his first chapter which I think is pretty spot on:

I will just add that the idea of blood calling to blood is mentioned in the books:

Brienne was thinking about a person intentionally seeking out their own family at the time, but the general principle can still apply. It's been pointed out before that Tyrion has met many of the people who have or are suspected to have Targaryen blood in the series: Jon, Aemon, Varys, Illyrio, Aegon, and now he's on his way to Daenerys. If A+J=T, then these are Tyrion's relatives that he keeps unknowingly running into (some more distant than others).

(...)

More food for thought on this subject:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Tyrion II

Tyrion Lannister knew the maps as well as anyone, but a fortnight on the wild track that passed for the kingsroad up here had brought home the lesson that the map was one thing and the land quite another.
They had left Winterfell on the same day as the king, amidst all the commotion of the royal departure, riding out to the sound of men shouting and horses snorting, to the rattle of wagons and the groaning of the queen's huge wheelhouse, as a light snow flurried about them. The kingsroad was just beyond the sprawl of castle and town. There the banners and the wagons and the columns of knights and freeriders turned south, taking the tumult with them, while Tyrion turned north with Benjen Stark and his nephew.

Whose nephew are we talking of?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

 

"I have informers sniffing after the Imp everywhere, Your Grace," said Qyburn. He had garbed himself in something very like maester's robes, but white instead of grey, immaculate as the cloaks of the Kingsguard. Whorls of gold decorated his hem, sleeves, and stiff high collar, and a golden sash was tied about his waist. "Oldtown, Gulltown, Dorne, even the Free Cities. Wheresoever he might run, my whisperers will find him."

"You assume he left King's Landing. He could be hiding in Baelor's Sept for all we know, swinging on the bell ropes to make that awful din." Cersei made a sour face and let Dorcas help her to her feet.

 

Cersei IV, Feast 17

If Tyrion is Quasimodo, who is Esmeralda? Captain Phoebus? Tywin would be Frollo, surely—perhaps a hint that Tyrion is not actually Tywin’s son?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×