Jump to content
UnmaskedLurker

A+J=T v.9

Recommended Posts

11 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

Given the context of ASOIAF, sibling banging is rather exclusive, unless you are a certain Frey who is surrounded by nothing but kin.

So you think Craster is some kind of Targaryen, too? People sharing certain characters doesn't mean they are related or that the reader is supposed to get the impression that they might be related.

11 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

I am aware of Non Targs riding a Dragon, however it is impossible to ignore the people who identify as Tyrion in their own way as victims and would love it if he was a royal and a dragon rider etc... Not that you are but they exist. 

If Tyrion were Aerys' son would, in fact, be less than he is right now. Right now he is the trueborn son of one of the greatest lords in Westeros. If he was not Tywin's son he would be a king's illegitimate son who was never even acknowledged as such. He would lose his claim to Casterly Rock - if we assume he still has that as the attainted murderer of Lord Tywin - but he would not gain a claim to the Iron Throne. Or rather, not exactly the greatest of claims.

A dragon would give him as a strong a claim as Hugh and Ulf had - and we know how their sad story ended.

If her were acknowledged by Daenerys as her half-brother and if he were legitimized as a Targaryen by her and/or marrying her as one of the dragonriders and three heads of the dragon then he could become significant again as a player.

Without that, Tyrion would effectively be a joke - just as he is in ADoD.

There are people fooling themselves this ugly and condemned dwarf could create himself a new power base without a dragon but that's not going to work. The Second Sons and Brown Ben are morons - nobody in Westeros would ever make common cause with a creature as reviled and despised as Tyrion Lannister. And once his allies see that his cause is completely hopeless he would be abandoned quickly enough, dying a rather unpleasant death.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

Look, I am not a Tyrion Fan but I know he has his own fanbase. To each their own. 

But you didnt address any of the facts anyone has said on this thread........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

Which Non-Targ are you aware of that rode a dragon?

GRRM has stated that you do not have to be a Targ to ride a dragon. Now, maybe he meant lineage from houses of the destroyed freehold. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

So you think Craster is some kind of Targaryen, too? People sharing certain characters doesn't mean they are related or that the reader is supposed to get the impression that they might be related.

If Tyrion were Aerys' son would, in fact, be less than he is right now. Right now he is the trueborn son of one of the greatest lords in Westeros. If he was not Tywin's son he would be a king's illegitimate son who was never even acknowledged as such. He would lose his claim to Casterly Rock - if we assume he still has that as the attainted murderer of Lord Tywin - but he would not gain a claim to the Iron Throne. Or rather, not exactly the greatest of claims.

A dragon would give him as a strong a claim as Hugh and Ulf had - and we know how their sad story ended.

If her were acknowledged by Daenerys as her half-brother and if he were legitimized as a Targaryen by her and/or marrying her as one of the dragonriders and three heads of the dragon then he could become significant again as a player.

Without that, Tyrion would effectively be a joke - just as he is in ADoD.

There are people fooling themselves this ugly and condemned dwarf could create himself a new power base without a dragon but that's not going to work. The Second Sons and Brown Ben are morons - nobody in Westeros would ever make common cause with a creature as reviled and despised as Tyrion Lannister. And once his allies see that his cause is completely hopeless he would be abandoned quickly enough, dying a rather unpleasant death.

I think Craster is an isolated and surrounded by his own female kin sick ld monster.  The Targs seem to have in many ways, cases chosen their own even when surrounded by other options. Twins in the nursery still took it further as grown ups. That is not normal, even in this world and especially in the environment of Jaime and Cersei Lannister.  

Tyrion could also be Aery's son, I have never said that he was not. I just find it more likely that his Brother/sister are. Hell, all three could be and Tywin may have been firing blanks all along. 

I think Tyrion would be a monster if he had control of a Dragon but that does not change whether he will or will not. I am not a fan of the idea but there are many that are. Dragons are enough to make people ally and follow anyone who controls them. Just look at Dany.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

But you didnt address any of the facts anyone has said on this thread........

What facts are you referring to?





























 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

GRRM has stated that you do not have to be a Targ to ride a dragon. Now, maybe he meant lineage from houses of the destroyed freehold. 

GRRM has been quoted as saying: "Three heads of the dragon... yes... but the third will not necessarily BE a Targaryen..." But one need not be a Targaryen in name to have Targaryen blood. 

The following dragonriders had Targaryen blood, but were not Targaryens:

- Laena Velaryon
- Laenor Velaryon
- Addam Hull/Velaryon
- Jacaerys Velaryon
- Lucerys Velaryon
- Joffrey Velaryon

The following dragonriders were claimed to be dragonseed with Targaryen blood, but were not Targaryens:

- Hugh Hammer
- Nettles
- Ulf the White

Thus far, there has been no confirmed case of a dragonrider in Westeros in the Targaryen era who was not either a Targaryen, a non-Targaryen with known Targaryen blood, or a non-Targaryen claimed to have Targaryen blood.

In Tyrion's case, he is a Lannister in name, and even if it turns out he was a bastard of Aerys, that would still not make him a Targaryen in name, but he would have the blood which may be necessary to fly a Targaryen dragon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

GRRM has stated that you do not have to be a Targ to ride a dragon. Now, maybe he meant lineage from houses of the destroyed freehold. 

What is the SSM on that one?

I was asking for a characters name who rode a dragon who is a non-targ, you said you were aware of them.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

GRRM has been quoted as saying: "Three heads of the dragon... yes... but the third will not necessarily BE a Targaryen..." But one need not be a Targaryen in name to have Targaryen blood. 

The following dragonriders had Targaryen blood, but were not Targaryens:

- Laena Velaryon
- Laenor Velaryon
- Addam Hull/Velaryon
- Jacaerys Velaryon
- Lucerys Velaryon
- Joffrey Velaryon

The following dragonriders were claimed to be dragonseed with Targaryen blood, but were not Targaryens:

- Hugh Hammer
- Nettles
- Ulf the White

Thus far, there has been no confirmed case of a dragonrider in Westeros in the Targaryen era who was not either a Targaryen, a non-Targaryen with known Targaryen blood, or a non-Targaryen claimed to have Targaryen blood.

In Tyrion's case, he is a Lannister in name, and even if it turns out he was a bastard of Aerys, that would still not make him a Targaryen in name, but he would have the blood which may be necessary to fly a Targaryen dragon.

this is all true and yes, it is a possibility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

What facts are you referring to?
 

 

All the timelines that were laid out about where Aerys and Joanna were in the years before the twins or Tyrions birth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

What is the SSM on that one?

I was asking for a characters name who rode a dragon who is a non-targ, you said you were aware of them.....

Bael just answered it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

All the timelines that were laid out about where Aerys and Joanna were in the years before the twins or Tyrions birth.

And? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, A Ghost of Someone said:

Concrete what?

There are no actual facts that Bael listed that prove what you said. Just opinions. Nothing concrete (or even close to it) from the literature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any non-Targaryen known to have ridden a dragon in the Targaryen era either had confirmed Targaryen blood (Rhaenyra's Velaryon kids, Rhaenys's and Corlys's Velaryon kids), or were dragonseed believed to have Targaryen blood. There is no case of a non-Targaryen with zero confirmed or believed Targaryen ancestry riding a dragon.

Edited by Bael's Bastard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just throwing this out there. I believe a Warg could and might ride a dragon before this is over. Also, we do not know if anyone of non valaryian blood has ever tried to or would not do successful. Victorian and Euronext with the Horn will be interesting.

Edited by A Ghost of Someone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

Just throwing this out there. I believe a Warg could and might ride a dragon before this is over. Also, we do not know if anyone of non valaryian blood has ever tried to or would not do successful. Victorian and Euronext with the Horn will be interesting.

It remains to be seen whether a skinchanger with no Targaryen blood will be able to skinchange or ride a dragon, or whether someone with no Targaryen blood will be able to use the horn to ride a dragon, but thus far, every Westerosi dragonrider since Aegon's conquest has either been a Targaryen, a non-Targaryen with known Targaryen blood, or had answered the call for descendants of "dragonseed."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since the Targs arrived at Dragonstone, though the Conquest or beyond, it does not seem that anyone who for sure had no blood tracing back to old Valaryia tried to ride a dragon. The Targs kept them and the eggs guarded. When it came to the adult dragons, it was risky when they never had been ridden before even if the attempt was made by Dragonseed or other wise. So, (will say this for Tyrion in that regard, if, if he for sure had no Valaryian/Targ blood in him at all, due to his knowledge about Dragons, he might be the one Non-Warg, to do so. All of this is speculation but I have thought since around the second novel that Jaime would be a strong candidate for a rider of a dragon. later on, Bran when he developed his gifts/curse (depends on how you look at it)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×