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Urban Fantasy/Paranormal Romance v. 3.0

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12 minutes ago, Lyanna Stark said:

 

Way too complicated a question to ask like that without giving you a ten page essay on how our culture devalues femininity. If you are interested for real and not just asking it as a rhetorical question, then read "Whipping Girl" by Serano. It lays it out clearly.

Kate Daniels are definitely not among the worse examples in the genre by far, also agreed on Mercy Thompson (from what I have read of it, which is not a lot since I cba with it).

I'm not sure why a woman being unable to take care of oneself and needing to rely on the men in her life is "feminine".  

And I'm still unclear on how the Kate Daniels series internalizes sexism.

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19 hours ago, Mars447 said:

I'm not sure why a woman being unable to take care of oneself and needing to rely on the men in her life is "feminine".  

Well, and that's the thing - I don't either. I can only assume Lyanna is talking about the difference between heroines in books being "kickass" and masculine and being... less so?  As I said, I also like characters who use their intelligence as well.  I enjoy a variety of books with a variety of female characters.  I think as long as we are aware of the problem, we can be allowed to have varied types of books, stories, characters.  Sometimes a girl likes to read some vampire porn.  Some women enjoy reading about the big, masculine werewolf sweeping in to save the damsel in distress.  Whatever floats your boat.  I like to hear other people's thoughts, but sometimes I think we are too fast to condemn.

As far as Kate goes... I've been trying to think of when a mysoginistic put down may have been used.  I think it's possible she might have said something to a "baddie" she was fighting and I'm going to go back and look for the specific example in the books I have :)  Look at that, now I have a project for the day :P

Edited by Mandy

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1 hour ago, Mandy said:

Well, and that's the thing - I don't either. I can only assume Lyanna is talking about the difference between heroines in books being "kickass" and masculine and being... less so?  As I said, I also find characters who use their intelligence as well.  I enjoy a variety of books with a variety of female characters.  I think as long as we are aware of the problem, we can be allowed to have varied types of books, stories, characters.  Sometimes a girl likes to read some vampire porn.  Some women enjoy reading about the big, masculine werewolf sweeping in to save the damsel in distress.  Whatever floats your boat.  I like to hear other people's thoughts, but I sometimes I think we are too fast to condemn.

As far as Kate goes... I've been trying to think of when a mysoginistic put down may have been used.  I think it's possible she might have said something to a "baddie" she was fighting and I'm going to go back and look for the specific example in the books I have :)  Look at that, now I have a project for the day :P

Me too... and I can't think of any. There was something potentially in Magic Rises, but as the book progressed the matter became far more complex...

Also I don't see the problem with having kickass female characters. My rule in urban fantasy is the female character should be equal to, or more capable than the male counterpart (not villain) in at least one respect. And frankly I read Urban fantasy purely for adrenaline fuelled entertainment and slightly OP kickass protagonists are a great asset to have:D

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21 hours ago, Lyanna Stark said:

 

Way too complicated a question to ask like that without giving you a ten page essay on how our culture devalues femininity. If you are interested for real and not just asking it as a rhetorical question, then read "Whipping Girl" by Serano. It lays it out clearly.

I looked this up - it looks interesting, thanks!!

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On ‎1‎/‎03‎/‎2016 at 1:56 PM, AncalagonTheBlack said:

Ironically, three books in that group where I couldn't finish either the 1st or 2nd book, and several more where I haven't bothered to continue the series!

That said, I love Felix Castor and Twenty Palaces. Both brilliant. Such a shame Twenty Palaces wasn't successful.

On ‎1‎/‎03‎/‎2016 at 8:01 PM, Mars447 said:

I found the Peter Grant books to be pretty poor.  The main character manages to be even more unlikeable than Harry Dresden, somehow.

Strange, I really like him. But then, I don't mind Harry either.

On ‎10‎/‎03‎/‎2016 at 3:36 AM, Mandy said:

I'd say they're right there in the same vein as Kim Harrison and Ilona Andrews, though I'd really like to believe the Ilona Andrews books are slightly better (have been told by those in this thread I am wrong lol).  But at least it's not the Vampire Diaries or the Black Dagger Brotherhood.

Agree with many others, I'm not sure where the comments about Ilona Andrews come from.

I'm also not sure why Kim Harrison gets such a bad rap either. After all, the main sidekick is gay, and for many books there isn't a romance. Rachel also does a significant amount of work independently, and there are protagonists of both genders, as well as friends of multiple-genders.

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4 hours ago, ants said:

I'm also not sure why Kim Harrison gets such a bad rap either. After all, the main sidekick is gay, and for many books there isn't a romance. Rachel also does a significant amount of work independently, and there are protagonists of both genders, as well as friends of multiple-genders.

I loved Felix Castor.  Can't stand the Dresden novels and have tried several times to read one - I think I got through the first one and then I have tried to read the second, and the third, and I'm just put off by the main character.

As far as Rachel goes, well... it's almost depressing the way she makes horrible relationship decisions because of her crappy self esteem.  But I finished the series even though they became more difficult to read later on in the series.  The books have several redeemable qualities, though.  I think the world building was done well, in that the reasoning for the supernatural beings coming to light was a good idea, the plot was carried out through the entire series, which I respect, and the characters were, for the most part, well rounded enough for you to care about them.

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RE the claiming of the city. Don't want to say too much. I didn't think it was too much of a problem though. With

kate[\spoiler] she's connected to the city though the claiming. She can heal faster through it. She gets information from it. It feels personal and intimate. I can also foresee issues arising where she's tempted to draw excess energy from it. With

Mercy [\spoiler] it feels far less magical. More like the claiming of a sports team than an incantation. Those Cubs, they belong to me! Neither side has to do anything / be aware of anything. It's more, I don't know, commercial? So, on balance, not an issue for me

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Still haven't gotten around to the newest Mercy Thompson yet.  Finished reading the 4th Others book by Anne Bishop - Marked in Flesh - and it was fantastic.  Such a great urban fantasy series...although this one was more world fantasy I guess.  The first book in the series started by focusing on a small neighborhood in a city.  The second book expanded to encompass the city.  The third book then reached out into the greater region.  And now with this fourth book we are getting glimpses around the world.  I love the world building and the characters in this series.  After I finished I went back and immediately started re-reading the first book in the series.  I suspect I'll run through them all again and then hopefully finally get to the Mercy Thompson one.  Both books were edited by Anne Sowards who is also Ilona Andrews, and Jim Butcher's editor. 

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12 hours ago, lady narcissa said:

Still haven't gotten around to the newest Mercy Thompson yet.  Finished reading the 4th Others book by Anne Bishop - Marked in Flesh - and it was fantastic.  Such a great urban fantasy series...although this one was more world fantasy I guess.  The first book in the series started by focusing on a small neighborhood in a city.  The second book expanded to encompass the city.  The third book then reached out into the greater region.  And now with this fourth book we are getting glimpses around the world.  I love the world building and the characters in this series.  After I finished I went back and immediately started re-reading the first book in the series.  I suspect I'll run through them all again and then hopefully finally get to the Mercy Thompson one.  Both books were edited by Anne Sowards who is also Ilona Andrews, and Jim Butcher's editor. 

These are being recommended to me in my Kindle recs.  I think I'll look into them!  Thanks :)

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2 hours ago, Mandy said:

These are being recommended to me in my Kindle recs.  I think I'll look into them!  Thanks :)

Lady Narcissa speaks truth. They are v enjoyable. I'm about 1/3 through and enjoying the fourth greatly. There are a few quirks in them that I don't like but they are being ironed out as the series progresses. 

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On 3/16/2016 at 10:26 AM, Mandy said:

As far as Rachel goes, well... it's almost depressing the way she makes horrible relationship decisions because of her crappy self esteem.  But I finished the series even though they became more difficult to read later on in the series.  The books have several redeemable qualities, though.  I think the world building was done well, in that the reasoning for the supernatural beings coming to light was a good idea, the plot was carried out through the entire series, which I respect, and the characters were, for the most part, well rounded enough for you to care about them.

I have a confused respect for how genuinely weird the Kim Harrison books got by the end.  There was some strange metaphysics in that world.

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On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 0:54 PM, Deedles said:

Lady Narcissa speaks truth. They are v enjoyable. I'm about 1/3 through and enjoying the fourth greatly. There are a few quirks in them that I don't like but they are being ironed out as the series progresses. 

Oh I am curious to hear which quirks these are.  There are certainly things that keep these from being perfect for me...as in my own personal preferences...such as I'm not a huge wolf fan and obviously they play a big role.  But I love all the other "Others" so that more than makes up for it.  Most especially the Vampires, the Elementals and their ponies, and the Harvester.

I'm re-reading the whole series now, which I haven't done before, and I'm just impressed with how she had everything all plotted out and set up from the very first book.  It can only be appreciated now with these later books out but everything was right back there from the very beginning.  Even locations we don't get to until the 4th books are laid out in the list of locations in the first. 

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I'm loving Written in Red by Anne Bishop. This is too cute. I love the originality of the Others.

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I love Anne Bishop, but don't get how anyone can use the word original for the Others after so much being a rinse and repeat of her previous books. This is, what, the 3rd/4th series with these themes? Her strength of storytelling is there, but she hasn't fixed the flaws either. 

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Is Anne Bishop the one who wrote the series with the magic cock rings and the characters with terrible names? Because if she is I've only read the one book of hers but, yeah, that one was pretty terrible.

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12 hours ago, ljkeane said:

Is Anne Bishop the one who wrote the series with the magic cock rings and the characters with terrible names? Because if she is I've only read the one book of hers but, yeah, that one was pretty terrible.

hahahahaha WAIT WHAT?!?!?

This is the only series I've ever read of hers.  I like the fact that the Others are truly NOT human, and for the UF genre, that IS very much original.  The rest I can't comment on because I haven't read them, but now I want to, almost like when you can't NOT look at a car accident.  Jaysus.

Maybe I'll throw some Dino-porn in there as well.  SMDH.

Edited by Mandy

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Despite the rings, and some very dark elements (as in, really bad), I still love the Black Jewels trilogy and its sequels. There are a lot of light/fun scenes, and many fantastic characters. 

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