What will happend in the minutes after „For the Watch?“

[MGraham]

3 hours ago, cutuphalfdead said:

I'm going through another turn at of the series (audiobooks for the first time) and I noticed today that much is made of Summer's (or Bran's yet unnamed Direwolf) presence and Bran's clinging to life when he's in a coma. When they shut the window to keep out his sound Bran seems to whither, and when they leave it open and the cries are louder Bran seems stronger. And of course he wakes when he's in the room and on the bed.

I'm thinking that if Ghost is present (and Jon saying Ghost at the end could be because he sees him) Jon clings to life and doesn't need a resurrection. Also, this is when the three eyed crow dreams began for Bran, so maybe Jon has something revealed to him while passed out in the form of a dream. Perhaps Bran being Jon's three eyed crow.

Yep this seems a sensible idea. None of the Stark children seem to be able to shake their connection to the wolves, unless the wolf dies.

[Ser Walter of AShwood]

On ‎13‎-‎3‎-‎2016 at 10:18 AM, JonisHenryTudor said:

If you mean in spirit, a lot of people have argued that the prologue suggests that Jon will live in Ghost for some time. I never liked that idea, because it is too Robin Hobb (also Martin's friend) and well if you haven't read the Farseer trilogy I will shut up. 

Dang, I completely forgot about that. let's not hope that Jon will 'suffer' the same effect as Fitz, that would be a major downer.
On the other hand, this might just be the real trigger for Jon to understand warging and, in order to let his body heal, continue the warging options and possibilities and thus 'living' inside Ghost for a while.

[JonisHenryTudor]

3 hours ago, Ser Walter of AShwood said:

Dang, I completely forgot about that. let's not hope that Jon will 'suffer' the same effect as Fitz, that would be a major downer.
On the other hand, this might just be the real trigger for Jon to understand warging and, in order to let his body heal, continue the warging options and possibilities and thus 'living' inside Ghost for a while.

Yes I hope Martin doesn't go that route. I personally do not believe he does, and I am more inclined to follow kissdbyfires claim that Jon will temporarily or semi-warg.  I don't think I have said this on this particular post, but I also feel that Martin will avoid a second magical moment by fire. Fire was Dany's moment, and if they is to be a magical moment I have the tendency to think it will have to do with ice instead. How...no idea...

 

I still believe that he is going to "stand-up", but if they is some sort of mystical moment, I think the funeral pyre and then Jon standing up is not going to work so well. I keep getting an image of the biblical story of the three Christians burned ( I should recall their names, but I do not...) yet they start singing instead of dying....Oh gosh...burn Jon's body then he starts reciting the vows of the NW from inside the pyre.... I think even Mel would soil her pants...ok enough of that.. . apologies... 

 

 

[MorgulisMaximus]

On March 14, 2016 at 0:46 PM, JonisHenryTudor said:

I still believe that he is going to "stand-up", but if they is some sort of mystical moment, I think the funeral pyre and then Jon standing up is not going to work so well. I keep getting an image of the biblical story of the three Christians burned ( I should recall their names, but I do not...) yet they start singing instead of dying....Oh gosh...burn Jon's body then he starts reciting the vows of the NW from inside the pyre.... I think even Mel would soil her pants...ok enough of that.. . apologies... 

 

Not sure is GRRM can pull this off... but maybe Jon transforms into a Werewolf and self-heals. Yes, even Mel will sh*t herself at the sight of that.

[bemused]

3 hours ago, MLR said:

 

Not sure is GRRM can pull this off... but maybe Jon transforms into a Werewolf and self-heals. Yes, even Mel will sh*t herself at the sight of that.

Yes... although I keep alluding to berserker / werewolf ,I don't necessarily mean either of them by our definition,or understanding, but whatever George's version of either of those (or some combination) will be in his world. There may be a special term for it. Like the differences between skinchanger,  greendreamer and greenseer, maybe not every warg has that "ability".

In the real world, just regular folk can be capable of some quite amazing feats in extreme circumstances, fueled by adrenalin.. I would think more might be possible for Jon.

I don't know that he could completely self-heal (might be too much) but I do think healing a lot better, more quickly could easily be possible.

I'm definitely not on the Jojen paste bandwagon, but the paste fed to Bran to "wed him to the tree" always made me wonder about the medicinal "porridges" fed to Mance and if they had any weirwood ingredients... Maybe Jon could get through the crisis on some sort of "uber-wargness" and be aided in quick healing afterward, by wildling medicine.

[kissdbyfire]

5 minutes ago, bemused said:

Yes... although I keep alluding to berserker / werewolf ,I don't necessarily mean either of them by our definition,or understanding, but whatever George's version of either of those (or some combination) will be in his world. There may be a special term for it. Like the differences between skinchanger,  greendreamer and greenseer, maybe not every warg has that "ability".

In the real world, just regular folk can be capable of some quite amazing feats in extreme circumstances, fueled by adrenalin.. I would think more might be possible for Jon.

I don't know that he could completely self-heal (might be too much) but I do think healing a lot better, more quickly could easily be possible.

I'm definitely not on the Jojen paste bandwagon, but the paste fed to Bran to "wed him to the tree" always made me wonder about the medicinal "porridges" fed to Mance and if they had any weirwood ingredients... Maybe Jon could get through the crisis on some sort of "uber-wargness" and be aided in quick healing afterward, by wildling medicine.

Morna! Morna! Morna!

 

[bemused]

7 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Morna! Morna! Morna!

 

I'm with you.. Morna! Morna! 

ETA: I wanted to say earlier that I really think she must be there. Jon had asked for all the wildling leaders to be present, and she was right "next door" to CB (just like Tormund). We see Tormund arrive, but we're also told he was late. ... Toregg was already there, but with Val, or at least in Val's tower. Same could be true for Morna.

Jon doesn't take notice of her in the shieldhall, but the thought occurs that when she crossed the wall ,that was a pretty momentous occasion, one which they all must have prayed the gods would bless. (I detect a sign that Tormund felt that way, in his sharing of mead..) I doubt Morna wears her mask at all times - it probably has ritual significance, like Val's weirwood pin seems to.

I can see her wearing it when leading her people in ritual, or into battle.. but probably not to a preparatory meeting or discussion. My bet is she's there with Val ,or sans mask in the shieldhall.

[kissdbyfire]

2 hours ago, bemused said:

I'm with you.. Morna! Morna! 

ETA: I wanted to say earlier that I really think she must be there. Jon had asked for all the wildling leaders to be present, and she was right "next door" to CB (just like Tormund). We see Tormund arrive, but we're also told he was late. ... Toregg was already there, but with Val, or at least in Val's tower. Same could be true for Morna.

Jon doesn't take notice of her in the shieldhall, but the thought occurs that when she crossed the wall ,that was a pretty momentous occasion, one which they all must have prayed the gods would bless. (I detect a sign that Tormund felt that way, in his sharing of mead..) I doubt Morna wears her mask at all times - it probably has ritual significance, like Val's weirwood pin seems to.

I can see her wearing it when leading her people in ritual, or into battle.. but probably not to a preparatory meeting or discussion. My bet is she's there with Val ,or sans mask in the shieldhall.

Hmmm I'm not sure about Morna being there. I don't really see Martin placing her there without the mask just so she wouldn't be immediately recognised - by Jon, by us... It would feel "cheaty", and that's not really Martin's style, imo. 

And the fact that she wasn't spotted, and was given a castle right next to CB is what makes me think she'll play a part in events right after the assassination attempt. 

[bemused]

12 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Hmmm I'm not sure about Morna being there. I don't really see Martin placing her there without the mask just so she wouldn't be immediately recognised - by Jon, by us... It would feel "cheaty", and that's not really Martin's style, imo. 

And the fact that she wasn't spotted, and was given a castle right next to CB is what makes me think she'll play a part in events right after the assassination attempt. 

I suppose it's not a thing I feel 100% sure of - I should have said ,She ought to be there, by rights. If Jon wanted all the leaders of the free folk present, she should have been there. Tormund had taken his people to Oakenshield , but was expected back. Would that not have applied to Morna and Queensgate as well ? ...Jon tells Leathers to spread the word among the wildlings still at CB as to the time of the meeting, allowing for Tormund to arrive ("Tormund should be back by then") .. But the meeting had already been planned for, since Jon had made sure to have benches brought into the shieldhall, etc.

Time and again, we've seen Jon take the time and effort to explain and discuss their deployments with members of the NW. I can't think he'd be less considerate with the wildlings, who might reasonably be expected to be less accepting of straight orders.

I do think Morna must have been notified, at least. ... We saw Morna remove her mask long enough to swear to Jon, and by kissing his hand, make one of the more heartfelt oaths. We know she has a teenaged son among the hostages. If she was notified, I think she would have complied. (But could something have happened to impede her? Sure...)

A mask is a damned inconvenient thing to wear all the time, so it wouldn't surprise me if we met her without it. ... E.G., would she wear it when speaking privately with Tormund?.. certainly not while eating, drinking, etc..or just hanging with friends and family. ...It wouldn't feel any more "cheaty" to me, if she was there without it, than is the case with other characters whose movements we don't know because Jon didn't take notice of them.

Then there's a whole other set of suspicions that, admittedly, stem from my convictions about Val. I don't think Toregg is visiting "one o' them milkmaids" and I think Jon is wrong about Toregg having designs on Val (If Toregg thought he was the one who could "steal" her, it would have been done, by now,) I suspect Toregg is carrying messages between Tormund and Val, or just keeping Val apprised of the latest developments...or seeing whether she has any wisdom to impart.

We know witches often seek visions, and I think Val does too. Morna, like Toregg, might have gone to Val, beforehand. She might not have been in the shieldhall, because she has sworn to be Jon's man or his woman, whatever he chooses (in other words, she'll do whatever he asks, anyway).. But she and Val might be seeking a vision (or comparing visions) about the Hardhome mission - assisting in the best way they can, at that moment.

Jon only asks Leathers where Toregg can be found, so Morna may already be there, somewhere .. Or there's the two hours Jon spends closeted with Tormund, during which time Morna (and/or other characters) may have arrived.

As with Morna, the spearwives should also have had some representation, because we know Jon was weighing whether or not to send them on the Hardhome mission. They've accepted Emmett's command, but they're still allies, not NW regulars and would deserve inclusion...That would mean Edd or Emmett and maybe a senior spearwife or two should / could be there. Logistically, Long Barrow may not have it's own ravens yet, but there are other methods of communication. (Edd knew when to turn up when Tormund's people came through) A rider could have been sent, or Edd could have been told there would be a meeting in x days time...

ETA: I had an entertaining exchange with Julia H. (I think in my Jon the Berserker thread).. In trying to think of who could be present to aid Jon, or guard him when/if he was down /unconscious, Julia said she was reminded of the old saying found throughout the Dunk and Egg stories (referring to a man's shield) ... "Oak and iron, guard me well, or else I'm dead, and doomed to hell.".. which she couldn't help equating with the fact that Jon had conferred Oakenshield on Tormund... but couldn't think who could represent the iron.. I immediately thought of "Iron" Emmett, who might have reason to be at CB. ... Who knows if it will pan out..It would be fun, though.

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, bemused said:

I suppose it's not a thing I feel 100% sure of - I should have said ,She ought to be there, by rights. If Jon wanted all the leaders of the free folk present, she should have been there. Tormund had taken his people to Oakenshield , but was expected back. Would that not have applied to Morna and Queensgate as well ? ...Jon tells Leathers to spread the word among the wildlings still at CB as to the time of the meeting, allowing for Tormund to arrive ("Tormund should be back by then") .. But the meeting had already been planned for, since Jon had made sure to have benches brought into the shieldhall, etc.

Time and again, we've seen Jon take the time and effort to explain and discuss their deployments with members of the NW. I can't think he'd be less considerate with the wildlings, who might reasonably be expected to be less accepting of straight orders.

I do think Morna must have been notified, at least. ... We saw Morna remove her mask long enough to swear to Jon, and by kissing his hand, make one of the more heartfelt oaths. We know she has a teenaged son among the hostages. If she was notified, I think she would have complied. (But could something have happened to impede her? Sure...)

A mask is a damned inconvenient thing to wear all the time, so it wouldn't surprise me if we met her without it. ... E.G., would she wear it when speaking privately with Tormund?.. certainly not while eating, drinking, etc..or just hanging with friends and family. ...It wouldn't feel any more "cheaty" to me, if she was there without it, than is the case with other characters whose movements we don't know because Jon didn't take notice of them.

Then there's a whole other set of suspicions that, admittedly, stem from my convictions about Val. I don't think Toregg is visiting "one o' them milkmaids" and I think Jon is wrong about Toregg having designs on Val (If Toregg thought he was the one who could "steal" her, it would have been done, by now,) I suspect Toregg is carrying messages between Tormund and Val, or just keeping Val apprised of the latest developments...or seeing whether she has any wisdom to impart.

We know witches often seek visions, and I think Val does too. Morna, like Toregg, might have gone to Val, beforehand. She might not have been in the shieldhall, because she has sworn to be Jon's man or his woman, whatever he chooses (in other words, she'll do whatever he asks, anyway).. But she and Val might be seeking a vision (or comparing visions) about the Hardhome mission - assisting in the best way they can, at that moment.

Jon only asks Leathers where Toregg can be found, so Morna may already be there, somewhere .. Or there's the two hours Jon spends closeted with Tormund, during which time Morna (and/or other characters) may have arrived.

As with Morna, the spearwives should also have had some representation, because we know Jon was weighing whether or not to send them on the Hardhome mission. They've accepted Emmett's command, but they're still allies, not NW regulars and would deserve inclusion...That would mean Edd or Emmett and maybe a senior spearwife or two should / could be there. Logistically, Long Barrow may not have it's own ravens yet, but there are other methods of communication. (Edd knew when to turn up when Tormund's people came through) A rider could have been sent, or Edd could have been told there would be a meeting in x days time...

ETA: I had an entertaining exchange with Julia H. (I think in my Jon the Berserker thread).. In trying to think of who could be present to aid Jon, or guard him when/if he was down /unconscious, Julia said she was reminded of the old saying found throughout the Dunk and Egg stories (referring to a man's shield) ... "Oak and iron, guard me well, or else I'm dead, and doomed to hell.".. which she couldn't help equating with the fact that Jon had conferred Oakenshield on Tormund... but couldn't think who could represent the iron.. I immediately thought of "Iron" Emmett, who might have reason to be at CB. ... Who knows if it will pan out..It would be fun, though.

Yes, excellent points. That's more or less the gist of what I've been thinking. 

The one thing I'm not to keen on is the idea that she could be there without the mask. I don't know. We got  the description of the character, and her vow to Jon - which I love. We know she has a prominent place among the wildlings; she gets a castle right next to CB... and then the second time she's to be on she's 'unrecognisable' because she took the mask off. I do feel it's a bit cheaty (and not really Martin's style, but of course I could be wrong). To me, it's akin to having a smaller character we've met only a couple of times suddenly appear in disguise. Does that make any sense? 

I'm also certain Morna was notified, and is either on her way or there already. I have considered a few different scenarios here, and her being with Val is one of my favourites. The same for the spearwives with Iron Emmett, they're there, or arriving. 

All the things you said, how she must have been notified and would attend; the fact she was given one of the castles next door to CB; one of her sons is among Jon's 'blood price'... all of this makes me feel her absence in the Shieldhall is incredibly conspicuous. And I think Jon having both Val and Morna on his side will make all the difference.

And I LOVE the 'oak[enshield] and iron [emmett]' idea!!! 

[bemused]

20 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Yes, excellent points. That's more or less the gist of what I've been thinking. 

The one thing I'm not to keen on is the idea that she could be there without the mask. I don't know. We got  the description of the character, and her vow to Jon - which I love. We know she has a prominent place among the wildlings; she gets a castle right next to CB... and then the second time she's to be on she's 'unrecognisable' because she took the mask off. I do feel it's a bit cheaty (and not really Martin's style, but of course I could be wrong). To me, it's akin to having a smaller character we've met only a couple of times suddenly appear in disguise. Does that make any sense? 

I'm also certain Morna was notified, and is either on her way or there already. I have considered a few different scenarios here, and her being with Val is one of my favourites. The same for the spearwives with Iron Emmett, they're there, or arriving. 

All the things you said, how she must have been notified and would attend; the fact she was given one of the castles next door to CB; one of her sons is among Jon's 'blood price'... all of this makes me feel her absence in the Shieldhall is incredibly conspicuous. And I think Jon having both Val and Morna on his side will make all the difference.

And I LOVE the 'oak[enshield] and iron [emmett]' idea!!! 

Yes, what you say re: mask / disguise does make sense to me... I just threw it out there as a possibility. I think there are ways that GRRM could make it work, if necessary ... such as, the explanation comes to us through a different POV... but failing something like that, I agree it would be unlike him to just put her in the shieldhall without at least giving us her physical description first.

Where I like her best is with Val, and it also makes most sense to me. Morna's mask and Val's "carved weirwood face" pin have always linked the two together in my mind. I think they would be joining forces at such an important time, if their abilities are anything like what I imagine.

Morna and Dryn (look out, he bites...) are my two top "conspicuous by their absence" characters. They ought to be there.

ETA: .. I really feel we may get the assassination scene duplicated from another POV, like George did when he gave us the departure of Sam, Gilly and Aemon from both Jon's POV and Sam's. In that case, there were small (but maybe important) differences to a scene that seemed very straightforward on the surface : Jon observing that no one could tell which baby was in the bundle, Sam noting Gilly's anger. -  Each sees things the other misses, ever so subtly hinting that things might not be as they seem.. (Rightly or wrongly)

Here, the scene duplicated through another set of eyes could result in the opposite effect, bringing clarity to a clouded situation.

ETA, yet again : The more I think about it , the more I think Tormund and Iron Emmett could easily and naturally work together. That the spearwives trust both of them would form a bond of trust between them.

[kissdbyfire]

@bemused, something I meant to bring up about Morna's conspicuous absence and forgot...

Morna could have been delayed because she's involved in tending to someone. We don't know exactly how much time passes between the free folk coming through and Jon's last chapter. But it's clear that it's not much, a couple of days tops, but I think it's even less than that. That means Morna couldn't have been at Queensgate very long before being summoned to the meeting in the Shieldhall. 

And we have two characters who have gone north of the Wall and haven't turned up yet, Benjen and Thorne. 
We know that Benjen came up with the idea of sending black brothers to the abandoned castles for a fortnight or so as a tactic.

A Storm of Swords - Jon III

"When do these patrols go out? How often?"

Jon shrugged. "It changes. I've heard that Lord Commander Qorgyle used to send them out every third day from Castle Black to Eastwatch-by-the-Sea, and every second day from Castle Black to the Shadow Tower. The Watch had more men in his day, though. Lord Commander Mormont prefers to vary the number of patrols and the days of their departure, to make it more difficult for anyone to know their comings and goings. And sometimes the Old Bear will even send a larger force to one of the abandoned castles for a fortnight or a moon's turn." His uncle had originated that tactic, Jon knew.

Thorne would obviously know this as well. What if either one tried to get back to CB but couldn't for whatever reason - being injured, or being chased, for instance - and decided to seek refuge in one of the other castles? What if either one went to Queensgate? 

[bemused]

@kissdbyfire .. Re: Morna: Since we don't know George's mind, I guess I'd have to say those suggestions are not impossible...  except... The breadcrumbs I've been following have led me to believe that Benjen is in Winterfell, hiding in the crypts as the Hooded Man (conspiring against the Boltons) ... And Alliser is already at Castle Black, being sheltered by Marsh in the wormways (leading the conspiracy against Jon).  

I'm open to the idea that she could be tending someone - just not them.

 

[kissdbyfire]

23 minutes ago, bemused said:

@kissdbyfire .. Re: Morna: Since we don't know George's mind, I guess I'd have to say those suggestions are not impossible...  except... The breadcrumbs I've been following have led me to believe that Benjen is in Winterfell, hiding in the crypts as the Hooded Man (conspiring against the Boltons) ... And Alliser is already at Castle Black, being sheltered by Marsh in the wormways (leading the conspiracy against Jon).  

I'm open to the idea that she could be tending someone - just not them.

 

Gotcha. Benjen as the HM could be an intersting reveal, I'd love that.

Thorne, however... hmm I've had this idea for ages that he will find out Jon's true parentage and become Jon's staunch supporter. But I don't really think characters will learn that R+L=J in the immediate aftermath of the assassination attempt, so... But we'll find out soon enough. 

Is there anyone else that could be holed up at Queensgate?

[bemused]

6 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Gotcha. Benjen as the HM could be an intersting reveal, I'd love that.

Thorne, however... hmm I've had this idea for ages that he will find out Jon's true parentage and become Jon's staunch supporter. But I don't really think characters will learn that R+L=J in the immediate aftermath of the assassination attempt, so... But we'll find out soon enough. 

Is there anyone else that could be holed up at Queensgate?

I don't know about Queensgate .. it has no gate, however, it lies between the Nightfort and Castle Black. So does Deep Lake, which has been garrisoned, but we don't know by whom. From ADWD according to the wiki..

Lord Commander Jon Snow considers re-garrisoning Deep Lake or Sable Hall with wildlings under the command of Halleck, although neither castle is ready for human habitation yet.[4] Jon later tells Torghen Flint that Deep Lake is garrisoned, although undermanned.[5]

Since Sam's return, everyone knows there's a gate at the Nightfort, that can only be found by men of the NW. So theoretically, any survivors of the men who went ranging with Thorne could have made their way back and got as far as Queensgate. (e.g.I think Thorne probably came back through the Nightfort and was smuggled back to CB by Bowen / stewards on one of their regular resupplying trips.)

It seems the Weeper got Black Jack Bulwer's whole party. So, for me (assuming Thorne is already back), that leaves Dywen, Kedge Whiteye and three unnamed men still MIA. I think / hope it's been hinted that Dywen will make it eventually...

Dywen would lead one ranging, Black Jack Bulwer and Kedge Whiteye the other two. They at least were eager for the duty. “Feels good to have a horse under me again,” Dywen said at the gate, sucking on his wooden teeth. “Begging your pardon, m’lord, but we were all o’ us getting splinters up our arses from sitting about.” No man in Castle Black knew the woods as well as Dywen did, the trees and streams, the plants that could be eaten, the ways of predator and prey. Thorne is in better hands than he deserves.

[kissdbyfire]

13 minutes ago, bemused said:

I don't know about Queensgate .. it has no gate, however, it lies between the Nightfort and Castle Black. So does Deep Lake, which has been garrisoned, but we don't know by whom. From ADWD according to the wiki..

Lord Commander Jon Snow considers re-garrisoning Deep Lake or Sable Hall with wildlings under the command of Halleck, although neither castle is ready for human habitation yet.[4] Jon later tells Torghen Flint that Deep Lake is garrisoned, although undermanned.[5]

Since Sam's return, everyone knows there's a gate at the Nightfort, that can only be found by men of the NW. So theoretically, any survivors of the men who went ranging with Thorne could have made their way back and got as far as Queensgate. (e.g.I think Thorne probably came back through the Nightfort and was smuggled back to CB by Bowen / stewards on one of their regular resupplying trips.)

It seems the Weeper got Black Jack Bulwer's whole party. So, for me (assuming Thorne is already back), that leaves Dywen, Kedge Whiteye and three unnamed men still MIA. I think / hope it's been hinted that Dywen will make it eventually...

Dywen would lead one ranging, Black Jack Bulwer and Kedge Whiteye the other two. They at
least were eager for the duty. “Feels good to have a horse under me again,” Dywen said at the gate, sucking on his wooden teeth. “Begging your pardon, m’lord, but we were all o’ us getting splinters up our arses from sitting about.” No man in Castle Black knew the woods as well as Dywen did, the trees and streams, the plants that could be eaten, the ways of predator and prey. Thorne is in better hands than he deserves.

Course! I'd forgotten all about Dywen and the others. I hope he makes it back too. 

[The Great and Mighty Poo]

On 2/26/2016 at 6:12 AM, kissdbyfire said:

Marsh & co. will be  overwhelmed by the free folk and NW brothers loyal to Jon. Mayhem ensues. If, and that's a big if, the NW endures, it will be a completely different organisation. Different from what it had been the last hundreds of years (or more). But much, much closer to what it was originally, both in regards to having a vast majority of First Men, but also in terms of purpose. 

If I could have one wish it would be this to become true.

[420faceless]

WIldlings ftw.

They've set that up for the TV series too.

[Jaken]

I agree that Bran's recovery with the aid of his direwolf could be repeated with Jon gaining powers of recovery through the presence of Ghost. It occurred to me that another event in Bran's life may foretell what happens in the aftermath of Jon's stabbing.

I seem to recall that as Bran lay in the snow in great danger while Hodor thrashed at the attacking wights, Bran warged into Hodor to gain control of the situation. Thus he was able to easily defeat the wights and have Hodor remove him to the safety of the cave.

As Jon loses consciousness during the attack he could warg into Wun Wun to gain control and carry himself to safety. Jon is no doubt too green in his warging abilities to do this but he could have the aid of Bran. With the strong link between them and Bran's undoubted powers, Bran could communicate with Jon, mind to mind, and show him the way to control Wun Wun. This mind link and subsequent action need only take a few seconds.

[Whitering]

Well, there isn't a crap ton of kneeling done in the Night's Watch, there is a strict command structure as per an army with support staff, but no more than that, and Jon at least, and I don't think Mormont were big on making people salute and such, just obey orders, which the Wildlings tend to do anyway. So while the Night's Watch may be an enemy as old as time, it's not a completely bonkers group to them either with members throwing themselves to the floor and kissing it all the time like the Wildling's seem to think people do, though we've not seen that in any Northern House save maybe for Bolton.