bemused Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 I always think it's a bad idea to try to project what will happen in the books by the show. It may or may not be true to the books at any given moment (We already know it has deviated from the books in the attempt on Jon's life).. And of course GRRM wouldn't give away , one way or the other, whether Jon was alive or dead. In fact that "Oh, so you think he's dead, do you?" was in reply to someone taking it for a fact that Jon was dead, and cast a bit of doubt on their assumption. He's not to blame for all HBO's "Dead is dead" declarations... those words have never passed his lips, in regard to book Jon. He has said (generally) that unless you see the body, you can reasonably have doubts that a character has died. (paraphrase) The show gave Jon many more attackers than the books (not to mention one that doesn't even exist in the books) and it showed us all of their blows connecting. We only see two knives connecting in the books. Jon thinks there are another two, but he can't see them, so we don't know (yet) whether he received one or two more stabs, or whether he was just expecting them to come from the other two men he saw with Bowen in the shieldhall. We do know the wound to his neck was only a graze, but we can't even see the wound delivered by Bowen, though it was delivered to a potentially vital spot. We don't see puddles of Jon's blood on the ground. Even so, I don't say the belly wound is easily survivable (perhaps it's not).. at least, perhaps not by an ordinary person. But then , Jon is not an ordinary person. In the books, we saw Summer's presence lend strength to Bran in his coma. Next, we saw Jon's presence lend strength to Ghost when he was attacked by Orell's eagle, which helped Ghost to get to his feet, although pretty badly wounded. (He had collapsed before Jon found him.)...But Ghost's wounds still needed attending, and I assume it will be the same for Jon. GRRM has given Jon the tendency to enter a fighting frenzy reminiscent of berserkers, and has had the Freys (falsely) attribute werewolf-like capabilities to Robb. Why? ... One of the things that werewolves are known for in our mythology is the ability to keep going in spite of their wounds, followed by very accelerated healing afterwards. There may be an element of this about Jon. It would only be an increase in the wolf blood strength-lending phenomenon. But if you don't see these hints in the text, it would seem strange for Jon to get to his feet. I think the hints are intentional and will play a part eventually. This could be the moment. I never thought that the chapters I mentioned with Arya and the Hound spelled the end for them either, but many readers did. 7 hours ago, Masha said: He collapses, feels "only cold" and stops feeling the pain, all hallmarks of loosing blood rapidly as well as lapsing into unconsciousness (at least) and definitely symptoms of dying. I would expect Jon to be incapacitated at very least for several chapters and not able to move in his own body. I completely disagree with the statement in bold. I know it's a reading shared by many, but I think it's simply wrong. We should realise that the whole attack takes place in less than 30 sec. (perhaps considerably less). We know the neck wound was a graze.. meaning no major veins or arteries were cut. Where is the supposed massive blood loss coming from? I've yet to see an adequate answer. Just like the need to "see the body" .. unless we get to see a replay from another POV, or some other explanation, I have grave doubts about what struck Jon between the shoulder blades. As I tire of repeating, he can't see what strikes him.. could be poor aim by an attacker that just pushes him forward ... could be a lunge from a wolf.. could be a shove or elbow from someone trying to aid him. Horse and Rory (his tail) were with him. If he never felt the fourth knife, and doesn't see it, how can we know if there was one? We're in his PoV. He thinks there is one, but any character can be wrong. Likewise I can't buy that he's losing conscious (in the usual sense). He may equally be conscious, or going into the state he was in during his bout with Emmett - able to see, react and attack, but not able to consciously remember it afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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