Small Questions v. 10105

[The Fattest Leech]

31 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

There is this scene, and even if you think that's just a Bloodraven inspired vision, isn't there a scene where he's  salivating with Ghost in Dance? And doesn't he have wolf dreams? 

Yes to those. And I do love that part where Ghost (BR?) leads him to the cache. I happened to have relistened to that chapter last week. The way Dotrice reads that chapter is like magic!

I guess I meant does Jon know his human Stark siblings are wargs as well? Same the other way around. I don't think the Stark kids know/sense that the others have their same gift.

[The Fattest Leech]

15 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I would imagine the wildlings in general would suspect him of being a warg since they are more use to that.  Varamyr also said he should have taken Ghost no matter what Mance said, so he asked Mance, so Mance knows and it's possible even likely Tormund was there at the time along with the Weeper and possibly Val and others.

Yes! I forgot about Varamyr asking Mance. You are correct. That is when Varamyr makes the statement that a direwolf is worthy of a king.

Thank you

[The Fattest Leech]

17 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Qhorin's men.

“Tell me all that you remember, from first to last,” said Qhorin Halfhand.
Jon was confused. “It was only a dream.”
“A wolf dream,” the Halfhand said. “Craster told the Lord Commander that the wildlings were gathering at the source of the Milkwater. That may be why you dreamed it. Or it may be that you saw what waits for us, a few hours farther on. Tell me.”
It made him feel half a fool to talk of such things to Qhorin and the other rangers, but he did as he was commanded. None of the black brothers laughed at him, however. By the time he was done, even Squire Dalbridge was no longer smiling.
“Skinchanger?” said Ebben grimly, looking at the Halfhand. Does he mean the eagle, Jon wondered. Or me? Skinchangers and wargs belonged in Old Nan’s stories, not in the world he had lived in all his life. Yet here, in this strange bleak wilderness of rock and ice, it was not hard to believe.

And the others at Castle Black appear to realise or suspect it too.

Lord Janos was red-faced and quivering. "The beast," he gasped. "Look! The beast that tore the life from Halfhand. A warg walks among us, brothers. AWARG! This . . . this creature is not fit to lead us! This beastling is not fit to live!"

[...]

Marsh hesitated. "Lord Snow, I am not one to bear tales, but there has been talk that you are becoming too … too friendly with Lord Stannis. Some even suggest that you are … a …"

A rebel and a turncloak, aye, and a bastard and a warg as well. Janos Slynt might be gone, but his lies lingered. "I know what they say." Jon had heard the whispers, had seen men turn away when he crossed the yard. "What would they have me do, take up swords against Stannis and the wildlings both? His Grace has thrice the fighting men we do, and is our guest besides. The laws of hospitality protect him. And we owe him and his a debt."

Stannis, possibly.

"Aye. All that, and more. You are a warg too, they say, a skinchanger who walks at night as a wolf." King Stannis had a hard smile. "How much of it is true?"

"I had a direwolf, Ghost. I left him when I climbed the Wall near Greyguard, and have not seen him since. Qhorin Halfhand commanded me to join the wildlings. He knew they would make me kill him to prove myself, and told me to do whatever they asked of me. The woman was named Ygritte. I broke my vows with her, but I swear to you on my father's name that I never turned my cloak."

-snipped-

These are great. Thank you.

I did forget about the Stannis line. Mel could know if she and Stannis talked about it at some point. She does take her interests in Ghost, but I think that is for other reasons. Stannis asking that is one I need to not forget again.

I didn't know if of the message from Qhorin's group made it back to tell the others what Jon said. Between the mutiny at Craster's and the losses at the Fist, I did not know for what that possibility would be. And now that I think about it, I don't know that Sam ever talks about it either.

I guess this goes in to me thinking about Jon's stabbing in other ways and what the aftermath could be.

Thanks all

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Just now, The Fattest Leech said:

These are great. Thank you.

I did forget about the Stannis line. Mel could know if she and Stannis talked about it at some point. She does take her interests in Ghost, but I think that is for other reasons. Stannis asking that is one I need to not forget again.

I didn't know if of the message from Qhorin's group made it back to tell the others what Jon said. Between the mutiny at Craster's and the losses at the Fist, I did not know for what that possibility would be. And now that I think about it, I don't know that Sam ever talks about it either.

I guess this goes in to me thinking about Jon's stabbing in other ways and what the aftermath could be.

Thanks all

Qhorin's group presumably didn't make it back to the main group at all. All were killed except Jon and Stonesnake. What happened to Stonesnake, we don't know, but since he didn't show up at the Fist (where he had been heading towards), we can assume he didn't tell anyone.

Janos Slynt is the one who spreads through CB that Jon is a warg. Whether he truly believes it, or just wants to make Jon look bad, is a matter of discussion. 

 

Jon does speak with Sam about it, so even if Sam doesn't know whether it is true, he at least knows there are people who see Jon as a warg

"What everyone knows is that Ser Alliser is a knight from a noble line, and trueborn, while I'm the bastard who killed Qhorin Halfhand and bedded with a spearwife. The warg, I've heard them call me. How can I be a warg without a wolf, I ask you?" His mouth twisted. "I don't even dream of Ghost anymore. All my dreams are of the crypts, of the stone kings on their thrones. Sometimes I hear Robb's voice, and my father's, as if they were at a feast. But there's a wall between us, and I know that no place has been set for me."

[finger]

23 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Yes to those. And I do love that part where Ghost (BR?) leads him to the cache. I happened to have relistened to that chapter last week. The way Dotrice reads that chapter is like magic!

I guess I meant does Jon know his human Stark siblings are wargs as well? Same the other way around. I don't think the Stark kids know/sense that the others have their same gift.

I think it's in t the last Bran chapter in ACOK. Bran says he'd paid a visit to Ghost, and maybe Jon too. It must be the wolf dream that Jon tells to Quorin.  It's not clearly said, but I felt like if BR were opening Jon's third eye through Bran.

Otoh, Arya will connect with Nymeria all by herself, even though they parted soon enough.

[OberynMormont]

I was rereading the part of the series where Oberyn comes to Kings Landing.  He's telling Tyrion about the first time they met, just after Tyrion was born.  I was struck by his comment that it was his "mother and her consort" who took Elia and him on their Let's See Who Is Out There To Marry You Tour (tm).  If the person his mother was married to at this point was his father, why did he say "her consort"?  If not, what happened to their father?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

39 minutes ago, OberynMormont said:

I was rereading the part of the series where Oberyn comes to Kings Landing.  He's telling Tyrion about the first time they met, just after Tyrion was born.  I was struck by his comment that it was his "mother and her consort" who took Elia and him on their Let's See Who Is Out There To Marry You Tour (tm).  If the person his mother was married to at this point was his father, why did he say "her consort"?  If not, what happened to their father?

When Princess Aliandra Martell was the Princess of Dorne, her husband was called the "Prince Consort". So it is possible that this is why Oberyn refers to his father as his mother's consort.

The other possibility is that his father was deceased already by this point, and that this man was his mother's second husband.

[OberynMormont]

Thanks!  I thought that might be the case, but wanted to ask.

[MtnLion]

We don't know who the Princess of Dorne; the mother of Doran, Mors, Elia, Olyvar, and Oberyn; sister to Lewyn; was ever married to, or if she was ever married.  In either case, the donor would be addressed as the Princess' Consort.   

[DarkSister1001]

Was Robert Arryn going to be fostered at Dragonstone or Casterly Rock?  Why do Stannis and Robert give different versions of this?

[SonofMag]

What do we all think Taena is up to?

[Ser Leftwich]

1 hour ago, DarkSister1001 said:

Was Robert Arryn going to be fostered at Dragonstone or Casterly Rock?  Why do Stannis and Robert give different versions of this?

The wiki actually does a good job covering this.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Robert_Arryn#Conflicting_accounts_about_plans_for_fostering_Robert_Arryn

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 hours ago, SonofMag said:

What do we all think Taena is up to?

Whatever Illyrio and Varys want her to do. 

[DarkSister1001]

17 hours ago, Ser Leftwich said:

The wiki actually does a good job covering this.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Robert_Arryn#Conflicting_accounts_about_plans_for_fostering_Robert_Arryn

Thanks! 

[daccu65]

Sorry for the inane question, but what was the sequence by which Ned, Cat, Jon and Robb got to Winterfell after Robert's Rebellion?  Did Ned show up at Riverrun, with Jon, collect Cat and Robb and all of them went to Winterfell?  Did Ned go to Winterfell, drop off Jon, then go to Riverrun and collect Cat and Robb?  Did Ned show up at Riverrun, without Jon, take Cat and Robb to Winterfell, then go to collect Jon?  Is it some other sequence of events?

 

[HexMachina]

8 minutes ago, daccu65 said:

Sorry for the inane question, but what was the sequence by which Ned, Cat, Jon and Robb got to Winterfell after Robert's Rebellion?  Did Ned show up at Riverrun, with Jon, collect Cat and Robb and all of them went to Winterfell?  Did Ned go to Winterfell, drop off Jon, then go to Riverrun and collect Cat and Robb?  Did Ned show up at Riverrun, without Jon, take Cat and Robb to Winterfell, then go to collect Jon?  Is it some other sequence of events?

 

Iirc, Ned returns to Winterfell, with Jon, and Catelyn later travels from Riverrun to Wimterfell with baby Robb, to find Ned and Jon already there.

[daccu65]

Just now, HelenaExMachina said:

Iirc, Ned returns to Winterfell, with Jon, and Catelyn later travels from Riverrun to Wimterfell with baby Robb, to find Ned and Jon already there.

Thank you.

 

[Nittanian]

1 minute ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Iirc, Ned returns to Winterfell, with Jon, and Catelyn later travels from Riverrun to Wimterfell with baby Robb, to find Ned and Jon already there.

Yep!

Quote

Many men fathered bastards. Catelyn had grown up with that knowledge. It came as no surprise to her, in the first year of her marriage, to learn that Ned had fathered a child on some girl chance met on campaign. He had a man's needs, after all, and they had spent that year apart, Ned off at war in the south while she remained safe in her father's castle at Riverrun. Her thoughts were more of Robb, the infant at her breast, than of the husband she scarcely knew. He was welcome to whatever solace he might find between battles. And if his seed quickened, she expected he would see to the child's needs.

 

He did more than that. The Starks were not like other men. Ned brought his bastard home with him, and called him "son" for all the north to see. When the wars were over at last, and Catelyn rode to Winterfell, Jon and his wet nurse had already taken up residence. (AGOT Catelyn II)

 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

49 minutes ago, Nittanian said:

Yep!

 

That quote does not exclude the possibility that Ned travelled from Winterfell to Riverrun to accompany Catelyn to Winterfell, right?

[MtnLion]

43 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

That quote does not exclude the possibility that Ned travelled from Winterfell to Riverrun to accompany Catelyn to Winterfell, right?

No, but the quote says that Jon and his wetnurse were already at Winterfell when Catelyn and Robb arrived.  The quote also tells us that Catelyn and Robb set out from Riverrun alone (probably had an household escort).  What Ned could have been doing is returning Lord Dustin's horse to Lady Dustin and offering his condolences to those widows and families of the senior lords that accompanied him during the war, not to return.  So, there is a valid reason for Ned's absence from any of the perspectives.