Small Questions v. 10105

[FearlessBoggart]

2 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

The last time we see Euron in AFFC, he is at the Shield Islands, having just conquered them. In TWOW

  Reveal hidden contents

In The Forsaken, we see that Euron has just captured a smaller island near the Arbor.

 

 

Spoiler

So it's safe to assume that Euron moved between AFFC and TWOW, or during Dance?

 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

1 minute ago, FearlessBoggart said:

 

  Hide contents

So it's safe to assume that Euron moved between AFFC and TWOW, or during Dance?

 

Spoiler

For a large part, A Dance with Dragons takes place at the same time as A Feast for Crows. However, ADWD covers a larger time period, as can be seen by the occurance of POVs from AFFC more towards the end of ADWD (e.g., Victarion, Cersei, Jaime), when the storyline has caught up, time-wise. So, in essense, it is both. Euron moved since we last saw him in AFFC, and that would have been happening at the same time as the latter part of ADWD.

 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

So I asked this question on the wiki-thread, but I figured that it might also be very suitable to ask it here.

On 15-10-2016 at 0:47 PM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

On multiple fan-sites for ASOIAF, Braavos's founding date is stated to be 500 BC (800 years prior to the main series). Our wiki also used to display this date. However, I cannot find a reference for this date. I've checked the books, the app, the RPG's, even the history lore on the Game of Thrones blueray edition for Season 5. All I end up with is that Braavos was founded at least ~657 years prior to the main series (~357 BC), with no telling how much older the city might be (except that it has to be younger than Lorath, which was founded in 1436 BC).

 

So does anyone know of a reference that states that Braavos was founded around ~500 BC?

Edit: A bit of background as to how I got to these numbers. We know that Braavos's existence was kept a secret for 111 years. Two centuries after the 111th celebration of the city's founding and revelation of its existence, its location was revealed as well. We know that Harwyn Hoare visited Braavos prior to the start of his reign. However, we do not know when Harwyn's reign began, only that he died at the age of 64, after which his son Halleck inherited the rule. We also do not know how long Halleck ruled, except that it was more than 4 years. Halleck's son Harren eventually inherited, who ruled for ~40 years before Aegon I Targaryen began his Conquest in 2 BC.

That means that, using known numbers only, Braavos's location (which had to have been revealed before Harwyn visited the city), was revealed at least ~40 + 4 years before the start of Aegon's Conquest, thus at least by 46 BC. The city would have been existing for ~311 years by then, placing the city's founding no later than ~357 BC, and thus ~657 years prior to the main series.

Don't get me wrong, Harwyn likely visited Braavos in his youth, and thus, you can reasonably assume that a few more decades can be added to the minimum founding date.. However, we cannot say with any certainty how many years can be added, so this is the most exact we have atm.

 

So my question is, am I missing something? I've also searched the SSM's, but thusfar, found nothing there either.

[FearlessBoggart]

11 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

So I asked this question on the wiki-thread, but I figured that it might also be very suitable to ask it here.

Edit: A bit of background as to how I got to these numbers. We know that Braavos's existence was kept a secret for 111 years. Two centuries after the 111th celebration of the city's founding and revelation of its existence, its location was revealed as well. We know that Harwyn Hoare visited Braavos prior to the start of his reign. However, we do not know when Harwyn's reign began, only that he died at the age of 64, after which his son Halleck inherited the rule. We also do not know how long Halleck ruled, except that it was more than 4 years. Halleck's son Harren eventually inherited, who ruled for ~40 years before Aegon I Targaryen began his Conquest in 2 BC.

That means that, using known numbers only, Braavos's location (which had to have been revealed before Harwyn visited the city), was revealed at least ~40 + 4 years before the start of Aegon's Conquest, thus at least by 46 BC. The city would have been existing for ~311 years by then, placing the city's founding no later than ~357 BC, and thus ~657 years prior to the main series.

Don't get me wrong, Harwyn likely visited Braavos in his youth, and thus, you can reasonably assume that a few more decades can be added to the minimum founding date.. However, we cannot say with any certainty how many years can be added, so this is the most exact we have atm.

 

So my question is, am I missing something? I've also searched the SSM's, but thusfar, found nothing there either.

Could the wiki have gotten it straight from Martin? Since the founders of the website are rather close with Martin (they wrote the guide book with him), could it be a possibility?

[Ckram]

@Rhaenys_Targaryen

I would humbly like to add the following:

 

About the minimum founding date

Maester Yandel tells us that Harwyn Hoare (Harwyn Hardhand) defeated Arrec Durrandon and claimed the riverlands for himself, just as “Arlan III Durrandon had done three centuries earlier”.

On the other hand, the Wiki says Arlan III Durrandon took the riverlands from House Teague “in the Battle of Six Kings about 360 years before Aegon's Landing”, or 360 BC (yet, I can't find any evidence to support this fact).

Anyhow, if the wiki is right, considering that the battle against Arrec was the first thing Harwyn did after his coronation (Yandel gave me that impression), it took place in 60 BC. Then, by subtracting the 44 years of Harren and Halleck, we could say that Harwyn reigned for about 16 years, and that he was about 48 years old when he was crowned.

Finally, considering that he must have travelled to Braavos as an adult (after he completed 16 years, in 92 BC), we can assume that Braavos was founded in ~403 BC (311+92), at least.

Sorry for lack of references in the quote on Arlan III Durrandon.

I'm still working on it.

 

About the maximum founding date

Maester Yandel says that “Braavos was founded by fugitives from a large convoy of slave ships on its way from Valyria to a newly established colony in Sothoryos”.

Valyrians “thrice established colonies on Basilisk Point”, until they finally “captured Zamettar in the Fourth Ghiscari War”, the only colony that “endured for more than a generation”. But note that the last (Fifth) Ghiscari War finished “five thousand years ago” (aSoS, Daenerys II). In other words, the colony under subject must have be established some time before 4700 BC (+4700 BC).

During Rhoynar migration, “Princess Nymeria herself remained with the ships at Zamettar, a Ghiscari colony abandoned for a thousand years”. According the wiki, “Chapter 8 and Chapter 18 of A Dance with Dragons indicate the Valyrians defeated the Rhoynar 1,000 years ago, which is repeated by Maester Yandel in The World of Ice and Fire, ‘Ten Thousand Ships’ ”. In other words, the last Valyrian colony in Sothoryos was abandoned sometime around 1700 BC.

So, my guess is that the first Braavosi must have escaped sometime between +4700 BC and 1700 BC, and that the city was founded by them not much long after.

 

About Lorath's founding date

I don't know if you're pointing to the actual foundation of Lorath or to the date when the Valyrians took it as a Free City.

I'm saying that because I think that the "founding date" in the Wiki is actually related to the repopulation process that happened after the “Scourging of Lorath” (which left the Lorathi isles “uninhabited for more than a century”), and not to the actual foundation of the city.

• Yandel’s words, in TWOIAF:
  When men at last returned to the isles to live, they were men from Valyria itself. Thirteen hundred and twenty-two years before the Doom, a sect of religious dissidents left the Freehold to establish a temple upon Lorath’s main isle.

However, I apologize in advance if you were aware of this issue and deliberately chose to refer to the date on the Wiki.

[Blackfyre Bastard]

18 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

So I asked this question on the wiki-thread, but I figured that it might also be very suitable to ask it here.

Edit: A bit of background as to how I got to these numbers. We know that Braavos's existence was kept a secret for 111 years. Two centuries after the 111th celebration of the city's founding and revelation of its existence, its location was revealed as well. We know that Harwyn Hoare visited Braavos prior to the start of his reign. However, we do not know when Harwyn's reign began, only that he died at the age of 64, after which his son Halleck inherited the rule. We also do not know how long Halleck ruled, except that it was more than 4 years. Halleck's son Harren eventually inherited, who ruled for ~40 years before Aegon I Targaryen began his Conquest in 2 BC.

That means that, using known numbers only, Braavos's location (which had to have been revealed before Harwyn visited the city), was revealed at least ~40 + 4 years before the start of Aegon's Conquest, thus at least by 46 BC. The city would have been existing for ~311 years by then, placing the city's founding no later than ~357 BC, and thus ~657 years prior to the main series.

Don't get me wrong, Harwyn likely visited Braavos in his youth, and thus, you can reasonably assume that a few more decades can be added to the minimum founding date.. However, we cannot say with any certainty how many years can be added, so this is the most exact we have atm.

 

So my question is, am I missing something? I've also searched the SSM's, but thusfar, found nothing there either.

I'm a little confused as to the diverging versions of the Uncloaking of Uthero and the total number of years that the city's location was a secret.

TWoIaF says that the revealing of the existence and the location of Braavos were done at the same time, 111 years after the founding, but AFfC (Cat of the Canals) tells that the existence was a secret for a century (111 years, fair enough) and the location was a secret "thrice that long", which to me suggests that the location was a secret for another 300 years after the revealing of its existence, not 200, so the total time between founding and reveal of the location would be ~400 years (not 300).

I mean, if you are not aware of the existence, then you couldn't possible worry about finding the location. Is only after learning about the existence of the city that someone would be actively searching for it and the citizens of Braavos purposefully trying to keep the city undisclosed, so the location was a secret "thrice that long" AFTER news broke about the existence of the city.

Earlier this year on the thread about mistakes and contradictions I said, half joking and half serious, that the figure of 111 years in TWoIaF was probably a typo and it should be 411.

I'm sorry if my reading comprehension is flawed and "thrice that long" doesn't mean "add another 300 extra years from this date" but rather "300 years in total since the date of the founding," but to me that's what makes sense and I believe the date should be pushed back another century.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Thank you all for your input!

12 hours ago, FearlessBoggart said:

Could the wiki have gotten it straight from Martin? Since the founders of the website are rather close with Martin (they wrote the guide book with him), could it be a possibility?

It is of course possible that Martin gave some information regarding the founding date. However, in this case, I don't think that it is likely, as it wasn't one of the admins who wrote that particular piece of info, but a user who, as far as I can tell, hasn't been active for several years. (and who I thus cannot contact regarding this topic).

9 hours ago, Ckram said:

@Rhaenys_Targaryen

I would humbly like to add the following:

I should say, before responding to the rest, that the claim of Braavos's founding date long predates the world book.

9 hours ago, Ckram said:

About the minimum founding date

Maester Yandel tells us that Harwyn Hoare (Harwyn Hardhand) defeated Arrec Durrandon and claimed the riverlands for himself, just as “Arlan III Durrandon had done three centuries earlier”.

On the other hand, the Wiki says Arlan III Durrandon took the riverlands from House Teague “in the Battle of Six Kings about 360 years before Aegon's Landing”, or 360 BC (yet, I can't find any evidence to support this fact).

Anyhow, if the wiki is right, considering that the battle against Arrec was the first thing Harwyn did after his coronation (Yandel gave me that impression), it took place in 60 BC. Then, by subtracting the 44 years of Harren and Halleck, we could say that Harwyn reigned for about 16 years, and that he was about 48 years old when he was crowned.

Finally, considering that he must have travelled to Braavos as an adult (after he completed 16 years, in 92 BC), we can assume that Braavos was founded in ~403 BC (311+92), at least.

Sorry for lack of references in the quote on Arlan III Durrandon.

I'm still working on it.

I'll look into that date for the Battle of Six Kings.  I was aware of the "Arlan II Durrandon had done three centuries earlier" quote, however, I could not find a date for when exactly he had done so. I'll look into that further. Thank you!

Harren ruled close to 40 years; However, the length of Halleck's reign is completely unknown. We know it must have lasted at least 4 years  2 years, as 

His son Halleck, who succeeded to the crown when the Hardhand died in his sixty-fourth year, was a man of the same stripe. Halleck visited the Iron Islands only thrice during his reign, spending less than two years there all told.

Of course, Halleck's reign would have lasted much longer than those 2 years. Yet, we do not know how much longer.

So using that info, we cannot possibly make an estimate about when Halleck's reign began, or how long Harwyn's had lasted, nor when he was born.

Nor does he necessarily have needed to have been 16 or older when he went to Braavos, I think

His son Harwyn had no use for peace, but much and more for the arms and armor that his father forged. A belligerent boy by all accounts, and third in the succession, Harwyn Hoare was sent to sea at an early age. He sailed with a succession of reavers in the Stepstones, visited Volantis, Tyrosh, and Braavos, became a man in the pleasure gardens of Lys, spent two years in the Basilisk Isles as a captive of a pirate king, sold his sword to a free company in the Disputed Lands, and fought in several battles as a Second Son.

Compare with Balon Greyjoy, who was already an experienced oarsman by the age of 13, for example.

I'll try and see if the date of the Battle of Six Kings can be narrowed down!

9 hours ago, Ckram said:

About the maximum founding date

Maester Yandel says that “Braavos was founded by fugitives from a large convoy of slave ships on its way from Valyria to a newly established colony in Sothoryos”.

Valyrians “thrice established colonies on Basilisk Point”, until they finally “captured Zamettar in the Fourth Ghiscari War”, the only colony that “endured for more than a generation”. But note that the last (Fifth) Ghiscari War finished “five thousand years ago” (aSoS, Daenerys II). In other words, the colony under subject must have be established some time before 4700 BC (+4700 BC).

During Rhoynar migration, “Princess Nymeria herself remained with the ships at Zamettar, a Ghiscari colony abandoned for a thousand years”. According the wiki, “Chapter 8 and Chapter 18 of A Dance with Dragons indicate the Valyrians defeated the Rhoynar 1,000 years ago, which is repeated by Maester Yandel in The World of Ice and Fire, ‘Ten Thousand Ships’ ”. In other words, the last Valyrian colony in Sothoryos was abandoned sometime around 1700 BC.

So, my guess is that the first Braavosi must have escaped sometime between +4700 BC and 1700 BC, and that the city was founded by them not much long after.

 

About Lorath's founding date

I don't know if you're pointing to the actual foundation of Lorath or to the date when the Valyrians took it as a Free City.

I'm saying that because I think that the "founding date" in the Wiki is actually related to the repopulation process that happened after the “Scourging of Lorath” (which left the Lorathi isles “uninhabited for more than a century”), and not to the actual foundation of the city.

• Yandel’s words, in TWOIAF:
  When men at last returned to the isles to live, they were men from Valyria itself. Thirteen hundred and twenty-two years before the Doom, a sect of religious dissidents left the Freehold to establish a temple upon Lorath’s main isle.

However, I apologize in advance if you were aware of this issue and deliberately chose to refer to the date on the Wiki.

Braavos is the youngest "Daughter of Valyria", so that should put the founding of Braavos after the colonization of Lorath by the Valyrians. Which is 1436 BC. That's why I took that date

I also found the quotes regarding the colonizations of Basilisk Point. If the first two colonies were lost prior to the Fourth Ghiscari War, and the third was abandoned after capturing Zamettar from the Ghiscari, (which indeed should have occured prior to the Fifth Ghiscari War, ~4700 BC), then all three colonies were abandoned prior to or around 4700 BC. The Valyrians apparently remained at Zamettar for a long time, considering it was abandoned only ~1700 BC (though, of course, it is possible than they had abandoned Zamettar earlier, and others had taken up residence for a while, only to leave some thousand years prior to Nymeria's arrival). 

However, it should be clear that the three colonies established by Valyria itself were either gone or abandoned prior to the founding of Braavos itself, as Braavos must have been established after the Valyrians occupied Lorath.

However, these three colonies that Valyria established on Basilisk Point were just that. Colonies established on Basilisk Point. That does not exclude them from having established colonies anywhere else on Sothoryos. Yandel only speaks about a limited territory, where Valyrian colonies are concerned. Which is why I don't think we can use this to pinpoint Braavos any further.

 

If you have any further idea's, please let me know!

5 hours ago, Blackfyre Bastard said:

I'm a little confused as to the diverging versions of the Uncloaking of Uthero and the total number of years that the city's location was a secret.

TWoIaF says that the revealing of the existence and the location of Braavos were done at the same time, 111 years after the founding, but AFfC (Cat of the Canals) tells that the existence was a secret for a century (111 years, fair enough) and the location was a secret "thrice that long", which to me suggests that the location was a secret for another 300 years after the revealing of its existence, not 200, so the total time between founding and reveal of the location would be ~400 years (not 300).

I mean, if you are not aware of the existence, then you couldn't possible worry about finding the location. Is only after learning about the existence of the city that someone would be actively searching for it and the citizens of Braavos purposefully trying to keep the city undisclosed, so the location was a secret "thrice that long" AFTER news broke about the existence of the city.

Earlier this year on the thread about mistakes and contradictions I said, half joking and half serious, that the figure of 111 years in TWoIaF was probably a typo and it should be 411.

I'm sorry if my reading comprehension is flawed and "thrice that long" doesn't mean "add another 300 extra years from this date" but rather "300 years in total since the date of the founding," but to me that's what makes sense and I believe the date should be pushed back another century.

Technically, Yandel states that Uthero sent out the ships to reveal both the existence and location. Not that both indeed occured. And I think we should assume that only the existence was revealed, as not only Arya, but also Yandel himself elsewhere speaks about a longer period of time during which the location remained a secret.

So when Braavos was founded, and for the 111 years that followed, both existence and location remained a secret. That the location remained a secret trice as long as the existence suggests to me that the location was a secret 300 years, and the existence only 100 (111, to be exact). However, one century in that overlaps, placing the revelation of Braavos's location at 2 centuries after the revelation of its existence.

At least that's how I interpret it. 

[Blackfyre Bastard]

5 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Technically, Yandel states that Uthero sent out the ships to reveal both the existence and location. Not that both indeed occured. And I think we should assume that only the existence was revealed, as not only Arya, but also Yandel himself elsewhere speaks about a longer period of time during which the location remained a secret.

I'm trying to wrap my head around this. If existence and location were revealed, how they didn't occur? TWoIaF mentions that Uthero "invite[d] men of all nations to celebrate the 111th festival of the city's founding." How could the location be kept a secret if you have a bunch of people from all over the world traveling to your city to celebrate a festival?

In the same paragraph we're told that the Valyrians showed "little interest in the descendants of slaves escaped a century before," so it's clear that Yandel puts the reveal of existence and location at the same time.

 

5 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

So when Braavos was founded, and for the 111 years that followed, both existence and location remained a secret. That the location remained a secret trice as long as the existence suggests to me that the location was a secret 300 years, and the existence only 100 (111, to be exact). However, one century in that overlaps, placing the revelation of Braavos's location at 2 centuries after the revelation of its existence.

At least that's how I interpret it. 

Yes, I know it's a matter of interpretation. I start from the premise that if the existence of something is unknown, then the information regarding the location cannot be counted as concurrently.

Let's say a sporting goods store opens by your house and you never knew about it. It has functioned for two years without you noticing it. Then, for some reason you need to buy a football (or darts or whatever) and you start to inquire and someone tells you of the existence of this store but refuse to tell you the location. Let's say you come up with the location after two weeks of trying to find it.

Would you say that the location was kept a secret to you for two years or two weeks?

If you never knew about the existence, then you wouldn't be bothered about not knowing the location.

[Philokles]

Do any Brandon Starks except the current one and 'the Builder' shorten their first name to Bran?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

55 minutes ago, Blackfyre Bastard said:

I'm trying to wrap my head around this. If existence and location were revealed, how they didn't occur? TWoIaF mentions that Uthero "invite[d] men of all nations to celebrate the 111th festival of the city's founding." How could the location be kept a secret if you have a bunch of people from all over the world traveling to your city to celebrate a festival?

In the same paragraph we're told that the Valyrians showed "little interest in the descendants of slaves escaped a century before," so it's clear that Yandel puts the reveal of existence and location at the same time.

Yet Yandel also states

For centuries, the Braavosi remained hidden from the world in their remote lagoon. And even after it unveiled itself, Braavos continued to be known as the Secret City.

Braavos remained hidden "for centuries", indicating that the location remained a secret after the existence was revealed.

Sealord Uthero Zalyne put an end to that secrecy, sending forth his ships to every corner of the world to proclaim the existence and location of Braavos, and invite men of all nations to celebrate the 111th festival of the city's founding.

So I think the only way to reconcile all the info that we have, is to assume that, while Uthero send forth people to both proclaim the existence and location of the city, for whatever reason, the location remained a secret for two more centuries. Even if the idea was to invite people to come to Braavos, we have no confirmation that anyone came, after all.

 

55 minutes ago, Blackfyre Bastard said:

Yes, I know it's a matter of interpretation. I start from the premise that if the existence of something is unknown, then the information regarding the location cannot be counted as concurrently.

Let's say a sporting goods store opens by your house and you never knew about it. It has functioned for two years without you noticing it. Then, for some reason you need to buy a football (or darts or whatever) and you start to inquire and someone tells you of the existence of this store but refuse to tell you the location. Let's say you come up with the location after two weeks of trying to find it.

Would you say that the location was kept a secret to you for two years or two weeks?

If you never knew about the existence, then you wouldn't be bothered about not knowing the location.

In this case, I'd say two weeks. But if I were to be asked how long the store's location was unknown to me since its founding, it would be two years and two weeks.

Perhaps you are correct and the city's location was revealed 411 years after it was founded. But to be on the safe side, 311 years would be the minimum for founding to revelation.

[Raisin' Bran]

On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 10:28 AM, Horse of Kent said:

Do any Brandon Starks except the current one and 'the Builder' shorten their first name to Bran?

I do not know of one mentioned in the text and the wiki does not mention another either.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

@Ckram, I think I figured out where the 360 BC date came from....

It appears to be based on the text for House Tully in the AGOT appendix, specifically the bolded part.

The Tullys never reigned as kings, though they held rich lands and the great castle at Riverrun for a thousand years. During the Wars of Conquest, the riverlands belonged to Harren the Black, King of the Isles. Harren's grandfather, King Harwyn Hardhand, had taken the Trident from Arrec the Storm King, whose ancestors had conquered all the way to the Neck three hundred years earlier, slaying the last of the old River Kings. A vain and bloody tyrant, Harren the Black was little loved by those he ruled, and many of the river lords deserted him to join Aegon's host. First among them was Edmyn Tully of Riverrun. When Harren and his line perished in the burning of Harrenhal, Aegon rewarded House Tully by raising Lord Edmyn to dominion over the lands of the Trident and requiring the over river lords to swear him fealty. The Tully sigil is a leaping trout, silver, on a field of rippling blue and red. The Tully words are Family, Duty, Honor.

It would seem that this was interpreted to mean "three centuries and three generations (Harren, Halleck, Harwyn) before Aegon's Conquest, with a generation being 20 years.

Unfortunately, ACOK should already have made it clear that this is erroneous, as it is stated there for the first time that Harren the Black ruled for forty years. Unless Halleck's reign was a very, very short one, more than 60 years passed for these three kings in total.

 

Unfortunately, this date (which was originally written as "this must have been about -360 AL" all the way back in 2007) has been repeated as a known fact all over the internet..

And I am beginning to fear that the founding date for Braavos is a similar case, based on the erroneous believe that the city revealed it's location only after the Doom, coupled with the interpretation that Arya's description in Feast indicates 400 years, based on the fact that, while most sites state 800 years, I do recall reading some 700 years for Braavos's age, which would be a demonstration of the differing interpretation discussed earlier.

 

So thus far, I have nothing that can be said for Braavos's age yet. Would this be worth its own thread?

[Ckram]

@Rhaenys_Targaryen

Well, it's not a small question anymore, but I have nothing new to add as well.

It'll be worth if the purpose is to fish data and opinions that might give us a new lead (among tons of tinfoil, of course).

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

Quote

That was not news that Eddard Stark welcomed, but it was true enough that they needed help, and Littlefinger had been almost a brother to Cat once. It would not be the first time that Ned had been forced to make common cause with a man he despised. “Very well,” he said, thrusting the dagger into his belt. “You spoke of Varys. Does the eunuch know all of it?”

Eddard IV.

Who is the man? Tywin? 

[Lost Melnibonean]

14 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Eddard IV.

Who is the man? Tywin? 

It is not a small question. 

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

6 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

It is not a small question. 

Bummer. Gonna have to search now.

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

Is there a thread or link to a list of the books mentioned in the series? 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

9 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Is there a thread or link to a list of the books mentioned in the series? 

Books and Scrolls

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

17 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Books and Scrolls

Thanks. I'm an idiot. Went to Google and didn't even think about the wiki.

[Bael's Bastard]

edited