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Small Questions v. 10105


Rhaenys_Targaryen

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8 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

What does GRRM mean when he writes that a character died of a "burst belly"? 

Yeah, I'd very much like to know that too.

6 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Appendicitis? 

This was my initial thought, but I don't think it makes much sense... B/c if it gets to the point where the appendix bursts, the belly doesn't. No one in-universe would know that inside the intact belly there's a rotten piece of gut that exploded. Did that make any sense? :dunno:

 

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9 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Yeah, I'd very much like to know that too.

This was my initial thought, but I don't think it makes much sense... B/c if it gets to the point where the appendix bursts, the belly doesn't. No one in-universe would know that inside the intact belly there's a rotten piece of gut that exploded. Did that make any sense? :dunno:

 

Yes. 

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2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Yeah, I'd very much like to know that too.

This was my initial thought, but I don't think it makes much sense... B/c if it gets to the point where the appendix bursts, the belly doesn't. No one in-universe would know that inside the intact belly there's a rotten piece of gut that exploded. Did that make any sense? :dunno:

 

The weird thing is, if my memory is correct, both Tytos Lannister and Aegon III died this way. Tytos was old, but Aegon was fairly young, and it doesn't sound like he was physically unhealthy. So I'm at a loss for what exactly a burst belly entails. 

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11 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

The weird thing is, if my memory is correct, both Tytos Lannister and Aegon III died this way. Tytos was old, but Aegon was fairly young, and it doesn't sound like he was physically unhealthy. So I'm at a loss for what exactly a burst belly entails. 

Tytos had a heart attack while walking up the stairs to his mistress, Aegon III died from consumption (tuberculosis). Prince Baelon, "the Spring Prince" and the father of King Viserys I and Prince Daemon died of a burst belly.

 

13 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

What does GRRM mean when he writes that a character died of a "burst belly"? 

Gastrointestinal perforation, a rupture in the gastrointestinal tract. The use of the word "belly" would imply to me that a rupture in the esophagus can be ruled out (though I could be wrong), leaving the stomach or the large or small intestine. And appendicitis can indeed cause such a rupture, so @Lost Melnibonean's suggestion would fit. 

 

14 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

This was my initial thought, but I don't think it makes much sense... B/c if it gets to the point where the appendix bursts, the belly doesn't. No one in-universe would know that inside the intact belly there's a rotten piece of gut that exploded. Did that make any sense? :dunno:

It makes sense :) But autopsies are done in ASOIAF, so that might be how they determined it. For example, maesters have opened up dead bodies for centuries to study them, and Joffrey's corpse was opened to determine the cause of his death.

Maesters Ballabar and Frenken opened the second day of trial. They had opened King Joffrey's noble corpse as well, they swore, and found no morsel of pigeon pie nor any other food lodged in the royal throat. "It was poison that killed him, my lords," said Ballabar, as Frenken nodded gravely.

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41 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Tytos had a heart attack while walking up the stairs to his mistress, Aegon III died from consumption (tuberculosis). Prince Baelon, "the Spring Prince" and the father of King Viserys I and Prince Daemon died of a burst belly.

 

Gastrointestinal perforation, a rupture in the gastrointestinal tract. The use of the word "belly" would imply to me that a rupture in the esophagus can be ruled out (though I could be wrong), leaving the stomach or the large or small intestine. And appendicitis can indeed cause such a rupture, so @Lost Melnibonean's suggestion would fit. 

 

It makes sense :) But autopsies are done in ASOIAF, so that might be how they determined it. For example, maesters have opened up dead bodies for centuries to study them, and Joffrey's corpse was opened to determine the cause of his death.

Maesters Ballabar and Frenken opened the second day of trial. They had opened King Joffrey's noble corpse as well, they swore, and found no morsel of pigeon pie nor any other food lodged in the royal throat. "It was poison that killed him, my lords," said Ballabar, as Frenken nodded gravely.

Good to know. Thanks. 

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1 hour ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Tytos had a heart attack while walking up the stairs to his mistress, Aegon III died from consumption (tuberculosis). Prince Baelon, "the Spring Prince" and the father of King Viserys I and Prince Daemon died of a burst belly.

 

Gastrointestinal perforation, a rupture in the gastrointestinal tract. The use of the word "belly" would imply to me that a rupture in the esophagus can be ruled out (though I could be wrong), leaving the stomach or the large or small intestine. And appendicitis can indeed cause such a rupture, so @Lost Melnibonean's suggestion would fit. 

 

It makes sense :) But autopsies are done in ASOIAF, so that might be how they determined it. For example, maesters have opened up dead bodies for centuries to study them, and Joffrey's corpse was opened to determine the cause of his death.

Maesters Ballabar and Frenken opened the second day of trial. They had opened King Joffrey's noble corpse as well, they swore, and found no morsel of pigeon pie nor any other food lodged in the royal throat. "It was poison that killed him, my lords," said Ballabar, as Frenken nodded gravely.

Ah interesting. I had forgotten they do sort of perform autopsies. I still find the apparently widespread use of "burst belly", especially by non-maesters, or people in general, a bit weird. :D

 

3 minutes ago, Darion Storm said:

There’s also an “Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm”, where the main artery in the abdomen literally swells up and bursts.

But as w/ appendicitis, the damage is internal and there's no actual burst belly. 

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6 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Ah interesting. I had forgotten they do sort of perform autopsies. I still find the apparently widespread use of "burst belly", especially by non-maesters, or people in general, a bit weird. :D

Well, once something's discovered it can easily become common knowledge. I don't see anything strange.

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Geek's guide interview in  May 2010:

Quote

Q: Is there anything in your earlier books that you wish you could go back and change in light of later developments?

A: There’s actually one thing under consideration right now. I can’t say too much about it, but that might impact… It’s very minor, though, it would be changing a character’s name, changing the name of a minor character for the television series, and if we go ahead and change that name, I might go back in the books and change his name in the books, as well. So in the later editions of the book, the minor character would have a different name. But it’s still up in the air whether we’ll actually do that or not. So that’s really all I can say about it right now.

Who's this minor character, any ideas?

So far as I know, he haven't change any name in the books. But the character's name was probably changed in Season I, any options besides Robert Arryn(Robin) and Elmar Frey(Waldron)?

 

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8 hours ago, zionius said:

Geek's guide interview in  May 2010:

Who's this minor character, any ideas?

So far as I know, he haven't change any name in the books. But the character's name was probably changed in Season I, any options besides Robert Arryn(Robin) and Elmar Frey(Waldron)?

 

Based on the statement, I don't think the name was necessarily changed. It may have been. It may not. I would give it maybe a 30/70 percent chance of changing/not changing.

But what is the significance of your question? Do you think the name change would affect any part of the story or do you think this is fairly trivial information?

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1 hour ago, Raisin' Bran said:

Based on the statement, I don't think the name was necessarily changed. It may have been. It may not. I would give it maybe a 30/70 percent chance of changing/not changing.

But what is the significance of your question? Do you think the name change would affect any part of the story or do you think this is fairly trivial information?

So far as I know, GRRM's always most prudent when revising published books. Most revisions are typo fixes. In fact, I only found four cases of non-typo fixes in the published 5 volumes over these years. Many well-known errors such as Renly's eye color and Bran's transsexual horse remain unchanged.

On the other hand, there so many characters' names get changed in the show, yet never once did GRRM said he need to change them in the books. So I guess somehow he felt this name SHOULD be changed for certain reasons. 

 

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1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Why did Robb's crown have exactly nine spikes? 

My take is

The World of Ice and Fire - The North: The Kings of Winter

Amongst the houses reduced from royals to vassals we can count the (1) Flints of Breakstone Hill, (2) the Slates of Blackpool, (3) the Umbers of Last Hearth,(4) the Lockes of Oldcastle, (5) the Glovers of Deepwood Motte, (6) the Fishers of the Stony Shore, (7) the Ryders of the Rills...and mayhaps even the (8) Blackwoods of Raventree, whose own family traditions insist they once ruled most of the wolfswood before being driven from their lands by the Kings of Winter (certain runic records support this claim, if Maester Barneby's translations can be trusted).
 
This makes nine kings of winter from historic north if you count the Starks that were there at the time, and we have that circle of nine weirwood trees where Jon takes his NW oath that begins when night gathers :). Either way, nine standing together, symbolic unity rather than the iron throne monstrous domination down in KL.
 
1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

ETA

And how the heck did Cleos get past Harrenhal with 30 of Stark's men? 

I do not know.

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5 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

My take is

The World of Ice and Fire - The North: The Kings of Winter

Amongst the houses reduced from royals to vassals we can count the (1) Flints of Breakstone Hill, (2) the Slates of Blackpool, (3) the Umbers of Last Hearth,(4) the Lockes of Oldcastle, (5) the Glovers of Deepwood Motte, (6) the Fishers of the Stony Shore, (7) the Ryders of the Rills...and mayhaps even the (8) Blackwoods of Raventree, whose own family traditions insist they once ruled most of the wolfswood before being driven from their lands by the Kings of Winter (certain runic records support this claim, if Maester Barneby's translations can be trusted).
 
This makes nine kings of winter from historic north if you count the Starks that were there at the time, and we have that circle of nine weirwood trees where Jon takes his NW oath that begins when night gathers :). Either way, nine standing together, symbolic unity rather than the iron throne monstrous domination down in KL.

Before I asked the question, I read the same passage in TWOIAF. But doesn't that passage omit Dustin and Bolton? 

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12 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Before I asked the question, I read the same passage in TWOIAF. But doesn't that passage omit Dustin and Bolton? 

Probably for a good (current) reason. This is something I briefly mentioned in another thread a while back, how the Boltons specifically weren't mentioned in this part, but are on other parts of the northern histories- FORGOT TO ADD: The Boltons were always listed in the past as Red Kings. Isn't there a vision of some sort that shows a wooden city burning? This could be a Dustin/Barrowtown foreshadowing. Maybe, maybe not :dunno: I'd have to re-read some of that.

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41 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

 Isn't there a vision of some sort that shows a wooden city burning? This could be a Dustin/Barrowtown foreshadowing. 

Daenerys sees a burning city while within the House of the Undying, but this vision is connected with the Dothraki.

Quote

Then phantoms shivered through the murk, images in indigo. Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name ... (ACOK Daenerys IV)

Ramsay threatens to burn Barrowton. 

Quote

Ramsay seethed. "All she does is spit on me. The day will come when I'll set her precious wooden town afire. Let her spit on that, see if it puts out the flames." (ADWD Reek III)

Melisandre has a vision of destruction, but this is usually conjectured to be Oldtown or Eastwatch.

Quote

Visions danced before her, gold and scarlet, flickering, forming and melting and dissolving into one another, shapes strange and terrifying and seductive. She saw the eyeless faces again, staring out at her from sockets weeping blood. Then the towers by the sea, crumbling as the dark tide came sweeping over them, rising from the depths. Shadows in the shape of skulls, skulls that turned to mist, bodies locked together in lust, writhing and rolling and clawing. Through curtains of fire great winged shadows wheeled against a hard blue sky. (ADWD Melisandre)

 

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6 minutes ago, Nittanian said:

Ramsay threatens to burn Barrowton. 

Quote

Ramsay seethed. "All she does is spit on me. The day will come when I'll set her precious wooden town afire. Let her spit on that, see if it puts out the flames." (ADWD Reek III)

Ah-ha! That is the one I was thinking of. I was looking for "wooden city" instead of "wooden town". Thank you.

And yeah, I agree with the rest of your post :)

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