kissdbyfire Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said: There aren't any rules saying the heir of a house can't become a member of the KG, so there was no need for a precedent. The issue is that the KG serves for life so when the heir decides to join they stop being the heir. Tywin couldn't stop Jaime from becoming a member & didn't but he didn't like it because that meant Tyrion was his lawful heir. Barristan being dismissed from the KG may have set a precedent for members being removed but it was one Cersei set, that Tywin didn't agree with, & Jaime doesn't want to be removed from the KG to become heir to Casterly Rock. So it wasn't really an option for Tywin to get the heir he wanted back. Bold: I'd say the issue is much more to do w/ not marrying and not having children, thus possibly leading to the end of a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kandrax Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 On 29.12.2017. at 10:54 PM, Kandrax said: Can a man of Night's watch brags about his past crimes, no matter how they are disgusting? Ps: Is it too early for me to start some topic? What about my question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 On 29-12-2017 at 10:54 PM, Kandrax said: Can a man of Night's watch brags about his past crimes, no matter how they are disgusting? Ps: Is it too early for me to start some topic? There's no rule stating they cannot talk about their past, or what they did that made them end up at the Wall, as far as we know. As we've seen several brothers tell stories of their pasts, too. As to bragging about severe and disgusting crimes they have once committed, a brother might do so from time to time, I suppose. But whether it will be appreciated or not will depend on the men he is bragging to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Your crimes are wiped clean at the wall so it’s not like you’d be incriminating yourself. The issue, as R_T says, comes from fellow recruits taking your bragging amiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kandrax Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Thank you for your answers. Both Robert and Rhaegar were killed at Trident and Stannis, Renly, Viserys and Daenerys were never born. Who rules Seven kingdoms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 This is a bit of a weird question, but I've been wondering about it for a while, so I wanted to see other people's take on it. Rhaegar and Robert were second cousins. Robert killing Rhaegar or vice versa, would that be considered kinslaying? Or do we forget about the blood relation that existed between them because they were fighting a war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 21 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said: This is a bit of a weird question, but I've been wondering about it for a while, so I wanted to see other people's take on it. Rhaegar and Robert were second cousins. Robert killing Rhaegar or vice versa, would that be considered kinslaying? Or do we forget about the blood relation that existed between them because they were fighting a war? Yeah, that's an interesting one. And one w/ no definitive answer. How far from the family tree must a branch be so as to not be considered kin anymore? Karstark accuses Robb of kinslaying, and they're much more distant than 2nd cousins. OTOH, if any infinitesimal trace of a blood relation establishes kinship, virtually every noble is kin to every other noble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dohor Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 In Samwell IV, AFFC, Sam thinks this about Dalla's son: "The boy was Mance Rayder's son and Craster's grandson, after all", and I started to wander, how is Craster his grandpa? Was Dalla Craster's daughter who escaped? Or is this just GRRM accidentally mixing up between Dalla's and Gilly's babies? Also, I'm new, so could you explain how do I quote passages from the books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 21 minutes ago, Dohor said: In Samwell IV, AFFC, Sam thinks this about Dalla's son: "The boy was Mance Rayder's son and Craster's grandson, after all", and I started to wander, how is Craster his grandpa? Was Dalla Craster's daughter who escaped? Or is this just GRRM accidentally mixing up between Dalla's and Gilly's babies? Also, I'm new, so could you explain how do I quote passages from the books Welcome! I think it;s either a mistake or the reasoning is, since the baby is "officially" Gilly's and she is Craster's daughter, the boy is then Craster's grandson. I'm not sure if this was ever cleared up officially... There's been lots of discussion about it over the years. Here's one, if you want to have a look: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/61047-mance-rayders-son/ As to copying + pasting, just as you would anything on computer/tablet/phone w/ the ebooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dohor Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Welcome! I think it;s either a mistake or the reasoning is, since the baby is "officially" Gilly's and she is Craster's daughter, the boy is then Craster's grandson. I'm not sure if this was ever cleared up officially... There's been lots of discussion about it over the years. Here's one, if you want to have a look: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/61047-mance-rayders-son/ As to copying + pasting, just as you would anything on computer/tablet/phone w/ the ebooks. Thanks! I agree that this was either a mistake or strange choice of words. It's not like all the characters need to be related to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 11 minutes ago, Dohor said: Thanks! I agree that this was either a mistake or strange choice of words. It's not like all the characters need to be related to each other. You're very welcome! If you don't know it yet, the link below is a great tool to search text from all novels and novellas and short stories, and you can copy + paste from it as well: https://asearchoficeandfire.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said: Yeah, that's an interesting one. And one w/ no definitive answer. How far from the family tree must a branch be so as to not be considered kin anymore? Karstark accuses Robb of kinslaying, and they're much more distant than 2nd cousins. OTOH, if any infinitesimal trace of a blood relation establishes kinship, virtually every noble is kin to every other noble. Bloodraven was called a kinslayer, but he had less degrees of separations than Rhaegar and Robert did. I guess it's Tytos Blackwood's comment to Jaime in ADWD about Lucas's murder during the Red Wedding that makes me wonder about the whole notion of kinslaying. Tytos Blackwood talks about how Walder Frey's 4th wife was a Blackwood, and that kin counts for little and less at the Twins. He seems to take that notion far enough. It kinda made me wonder if the Blackwoods didn't stay completely out of Robert's Rebellion since they are kin to the Targaryens and Baratheons through Betha, but also to the Starks through Melantha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said: Bloodraven was called a kinslayer, but he had less degrees of separations than Rhaegar and Robert did. I guess it's Tytos Blackwood's comment to Jaime in ADWD about Lucas's murder during the Red Wedding that makes me wonder about the whole notion of kinslaying. Tytos Blackwood talks about how Walder Frey's 4th wife was a Blackwood, and that kin counts for little and less at the Twins. He seems to take that notion far enough. It kinda made me wonder if the Blackwoods didn't stay completely out of Robert's Rebellion since they are kin to the Targaryens and Baratheons through Betha, but also to the Starks through Melantha. I forgot all about Tytos's comment to Jaime... And I'm trying to remember if we ever hear anything about the Blackwoods when ppl think or talk about RR but drawing a total blank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 3 hours ago, Widow's Watch said: This is a bit of a weird question, but I've been wondering about it for a while, so I wanted to see other people's take on it. Rhaegar and Robert were second cousins. Robert killing Rhaegar or vice versa, would that be considered kinslaying? Or do we forget about the blood relation that existed between them because they were fighting a war? I see you have some other good answers here. I just wanted to add this tiny bit to the others. Kinslaying in Westeros Q: A ton of us Boarders have been debating the taboo against kinslaying in Westeros, and have been trying to define exactly what "kinslaying" is. Is it limited only to the situation where you kill a kinsman by your own hand, or would it include anything that leads to the death of a kinsman? In other words, had Renly's army defeated Stannis', and Stannis died in the battle at the hands of Loras Tyrell, would Renly still be considered a "kinslayer"? GRRM: Maybe by some, but that's a stretch. There are degrees in kinslaying, as in anything else. Fighting a battle in which a brother dies might be frowned upon, but killing him with your own hand would be considered far worse. In the scenario you propose, another factor might be whether Renly gave any orders in respect to Stannis. Did he command Loras to kill him, or offer a reward to whosoever slew his brother? Did he tell his men to see that his brother was taken alive? Did he not address the issue either way? There are obvious degrees of guilt, depending... The other factor, which you haven't raised, is degree of kinship. Killing a parent is probably worse than killing a sibling, but either one is a lot worse than killing a distant cousin. Lord Karstark was stretching that aspect of it when he tried to accuse Robb of kinslaying... but of course he was hoping to save his head. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Category/C91/P105/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Nice one, @The Fattest Leech! @Widow's Watch, irt RR, I'm not sure the Blackwoods would have been able to sit it out, even if they wanted to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtherFromAnotherMother Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said: The other factor, which you haven't raised, is degree of kinship. Killing a parent is probably worse than killing a sibling, but either one is a lot worse than killing a distant cousin. Lord Karstark was stretching that aspect of it when he tried to accuse Robb of kinslaying... but of course he was hoping to save his head. Its interesting that George said the bold part. I have always read that scene as if Karstark knew he was done but was just giving Robb one last middle finger before he lost his melon. I never got the impression he was trying to dissuade Robb from beheading him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darion Storm Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 11 hours ago, Kandrax said: Thank you for your answers. Both Robert and Rhaegar were killed at Trident and Stannis, Renly, Viserys and Daenerys were never born. Who rules Seven kingdoms? I assume that in this scenario Aerys the Mad, baby Aegon and little Rhaenys also die as before, if not one of these three. With all feasible blood claimants to the throne dead, it would depend on the whims of whomever wins the war in the end. Perhaps they would trawl through the records to find the closest living person with Targ blood, as far as I know the Martells are the nearest known relatives to the Targs; also according to the wiki Aegon V had two sisters who wed and had children but whose identities we don't know, if any of them are still knocking around they would be likely candidates. Or (and I think this more likely), someone would just say "Fuck it, I'm King now, and if you disagree you're welcome to take on my army", seems like a Tywin thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darion Storm Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 In the TV show, King Robert mentions "Making the Eight", the challenge to bed a whore in each of the eight realms of Westeros (I assume excluding Dorne). Is this an invention of the TV show or is this mentioned in the books as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 40 minutes ago, Darion Storm said: In the TV show, King Robert mentions "Making the Eight", the challenge to bed a whore in each of the eight realms of Westeros (I assume excluding Dorne). Is this an invention of the TV show or is this mentioned in the books as well? Invention of the show. That whole scene was, as no POV character was on Robert's last hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kandrax Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Thanks for your answers. And now really stupid question. Does Shagwell means Fuckgood? I'm sorry if i am annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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