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Why didn't the Golden Company take part in Roberts Rebellion? Its hardly like he could discard them at least not before the Lannisters surprise-visit to KL, even if he felt his cause was above the Blackfyre-rebellions.

Or why didn't they join any of the other rebel-kings before getting called by Varyllio?

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3 hours ago, Sigella said:

Why didn't the Golden Company take part in Roberts Rebellion? Its hardly like he could discard them at least not before the Lannisters surprise-visit to KL, even if he felt his cause was above the Blackfyre-rebellions.

Or why didn't they join any of the other rebel-kings before getting called by Varyllio?

Two big reasons:

The same generation who were leading Robert's Rebellion had just fought the War of the Ninepenny Kings. The Seven Kingdoms and the Golden Company were on opposite sides of this war. I'm not sure they'd have been willing to take the contract, even if it was asked of them, to say nothing of the fact that there was no certainty that they'd be paid.

The North and Stormlands were initially the driving forces, and they're not really especially wealthy. The Riverlands and Vale were, but the Riverlands tends to bear the brunt during wars (as happened again) so wouldn't be a reliable fallback for payment.

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16 minutes ago, Yukle said:

Two big reasons:

The same generation who were leading Robert's Rebellion had just fought the War of the Ninepenny Kings. The Seven Kingdoms and the Golden Company were on opposite sides of this war. I'm not sure they'd have been willing to take the contract, even if it was asked of them, to say nothing of the fact that there was no certainty that they'd be paid.

The North and Stormlands were initially the driving forces, and they're not really especially wealthy. The Riverlands and Vale were, but the Riverlands tends to bear the brunt during wars (as happened again) so wouldn't be a reliable fallback for payment.

I see. Thank you! 

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4 hours ago, Sigella said:

Why didn't the Golden Company take part in Roberts Rebellion? Its hardly like he could discard them at least not before the Lannisters surprise-visit to KL, even if he felt his cause was above the Blackfyre-rebellions.

Or why didn't they join any of the other rebel-kings before getting called by Varyllio?

Good question. I would submit that they have a mission that has nothing to do with Robert...

Quote
A brotherhood of exiles and the sons of exiles, united by the dream of Bittersteel.

The Soiled Knight, Feast 13

And we get a nice view from the inside in Winds...

Quote
Spoiler

 

“The Golden Company was founded by a dragon.”

“Bittersteel was half-dragon, and all bastard. I am no maester, but I know some history. You are still sellswords.”

“If it please you, princess,” he said, all silken courtesy. “We prefer to call ourselves a free brotherhood of exiles.”

 

 

Arianne II, Winds

I suspect that Varys was sent to King’s Landing to destabilize Aerys's reign and pave the way for a descendant of a daughter or granddaughter of Daemon Blackfyre, perhaps Illyrio Mopatis. But as Pycelle tells Tyrion, ". . .  Robert was too strong, and Lord Stark moved too swiftly . . . "

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

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2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I suspect that Varys was sent to King’s Landing to destabilize Aerys's reign and pave the way for a descendant of a daughter or granddaughter of Daemon Blackfyre, perhaps Illyrio Mopatis.

It doesn't make sense if Illyrio is a Blackfyre, and not Varys. Clues that point out to Varys being a Blackfyre:

1. He has dragonlord name - Jaehaerys, Naerys, Aerys, Viserys, Daenerys, Varys. Though probably his real name is Vaerys. And he changed it a bit, not to be so obvious. ^_^

2. He's bold. And he was bold even in 278, 22 years ago, when he came to Aerys' court. He wasn't old enough to lose his hair. Thus the obvious conclusion, is that he is shaving off his hair. And why would he do that? The only logical explanation, is that he's hiding his hair color, which is probably platinum white, silver, or silver-gold. By which he will be instantly recognized as dragonblood. So he's shaving his head, same as was done by Aegon V, when he was traveling thru Westeros, as squire of Duncan the Tall.

3. In a span of five books, his eye color is still unknown. That's because if readers will know, that he has purple, violet or lilac eyes, then his secret identity will be too obvious. I think that most likely, his eyes are lilac-colored, because GRRM wrote, that when Varys is at court, he smells like lilacs. It's a hint ^_^

4. Sellswords in Golden Company are not content with listening to Illyrio, and they disrespectfully refear to him as the fat man. If he was their secret master, and descendant of Bittersteel, then they would have been more respectful towards him.

5. Based on personalities of all other Blackfyres, it seems that they are always in a center of events. So it makes more sense that Varys, who is a Blackfyre, many years ago went to 7K, to prepare there foundation for next Rebellion of Blackfyres, from within of Targaryens court. Their roles are divided like this - Illyrio is one of backstage assistants, while Varys is a puppeteer, that is yanking from behind the curtain, threads of his numerous marionettes, that dance on prepared by him stage. And the play's name is The Game of Thrones ;)

And what indications are there, that point out, that Illyrio may be a Blackfyre? I don't see any. That's why I can't imagine Illyrio being a Blackfyre.

Edited by Megorova

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1 hour ago, Megorova said:

It doesn't make sense if Illyrio is a Blackfyre, and not Varys. Clues that point out to Varys being a Blackfyre:

1. He has dragonlord name - Jaehaerys, Naerys, Aerys, Viserys, Daenerys, Varys. Though probably his real name is Vaerys. And he changed it a bit, not to be so obvious. ^_^

2. He's bold. And he was bold even in 278, 22 years ago, when he came to Aerys' court. He wasn't old enough to lose his hair. Thus the obvious conclusion, is that he is shaving off his hair. And why would he do that? The only logical explanation, is that he's hiding his hair color, which is probably platinum white, silver, or silver-gold. By which he will be instantly recognized as dragonblood. So he's shaving his head, same as was done by Aegon V, when he was traveling thru Westeros, as squire of Duncan the Tall.

3. In a span of five books, his eye color is still unknown. That's because if readers will know, that he has purple, violet or lilac eyes, then his secret identity will be too obvious. I think that most likely, his eyes are lilac-colored, because GRRM wrote, that when Varys is at court, he smells like lilacs. It's a hint ^_^

4. Sellswords in Golden Company are not content with listening to Illyrio, and they disrespectfully refear to him as the fat man. If he was their secret master, and descendant of Bittersteel, then they would have been more respectful towards him.

5. Based on personalities of all other Blackfyres, it seems that they are always in a center of events. So it makes more sense that Varys, who is a Blackfyre, many years ago went to 7K, to prepare there foundation for next Rebellion of Blackfyres, from within of Targaryens court. Their roles are divided like this - Illyrio is one of backstage assistants, while Varys is a puppeteer, that is yanking from behind the curtain, threads of his numerous marionettes, that dance on prepared by him stage. And the play's name is The Game of Thrones ;)

And what indications are there, that point out, that Illyrio may be a Blackfyre? I don't see any. That's why I can't imagine Illyrio being a Blackfyre.

Most would surely agree with you that Varys and Serra, not Illyrio, are the Blackfyres. 

ETA

This is a great old thread...

I am no longer convinced that Varys is a "Brightflame," but he does have a drop of dragoon blood, whether it's red or black, or maybe orange, yellow, and red, breathing golden flames. 

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

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9 hours ago, Sigella said:

Why didn't the Golden Company take part in Roberts Rebellion? Its hardly like he could discard them at least not before the Lannisters surprise-visit to KL, even if he felt his cause was above the Blackfyre-rebellions.

Or why didn't they join any of the other rebel-kings before getting called by Varyllio?

The reasons others listed above but mostly they were probably under contract to one of the free cities at the time.

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Does anyone else get tired with the quote on quote "fake history" being focused almost exclusively on House Targaryen? I recognize their central importance to the story, but I want to hear more about the Storm Kings or the Rock Kings and the Kings of Winter. Could it be that providing these histories would spoil the current story?

I can only read about Maegor the Cruel so many times. 

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18 hours ago, Pride of Driftmark said:

Does anyone else get tired with the quote on quote "fake history" being focused almost exclusively on House Targaryen? I recognize their central importance to the story, but I want to hear more about the Storm Kings or the Rock Kings and the Kings of Winter. Could it be that providing these histories would spoil the current story?

I can only read about Maegor the Cruel so many times. 

Agreed. Granted, I wouldn't want to have to wait any longer for WoW so the George can write histories of...anything else, and it seems he's had all the Targ stuff basically written since the World Book was in preparation. So I think probably it's more about giving us stuff that's more or less ready to go--although I can imagine that a similar volume of material about the Starks or, say, the Daynes probably would venture too close to spoiler territory (e.g., the history behind "there must always be a Stark in Winterfell" would have to give something away; same for the story behind Dawn and the earned title Sword of the Morning).

But mendicants can't be choosicants. ;) I'll take F&Bv.I gladly enough when it's out and hope to goodness that WoW isn't far behind.

 

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The R'hllorists are very exclusive and intolerant towards other religions.

That being said, why are there so many knights in Stannis' court? We know that knighthood is a Faith thing.

I'm not saying that I'm expecting Stannis to dismiss these people, but I expect that Melisandre would persuade him to de-knight them and give them some other R'hllorist name for warriors, or at least only dispose of the false Faith's knighthood title.

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40 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

The R'hllorists are very exclusive and intolerant towards other religions.

That being said, why are there so many knights in Stannis' court? We know that knighthood is a Faith thing.

I'm not saying that I'm expecting Stannis to dismiss these people, but I expect that Melisandre would persuade him to de-knight them and give them some other R'hllorist name for warriors, or at least only dispose of the false Faith's knighthood title.

Stannis isn't a devout follower of R'Hllor, or any god at all. He says as much after seeing the deaths of his parents at sea. His decision to have Melisandre assist him is a pragmatic one, as is his decision to have knights. He frequently checks Melisandre's influence and prevents her from going further than she'd like.

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23 hours ago, GoWesteros said:

In regards to Brandon Snow, would the Starks really have given a bastard that legendary name?

Brandon is a name stretching back to the First Men, many non-Starks among them. While the Starks venerate many Brandons, it's not necessarily a good name to have as there were also scoundrels of the same name.

It's a fairly safe bet to use, as it's common enough to not offend anyone to have it.

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On 18/02/2018 at 11:58 PM, GoWesteros said:

In regards to Brandon Snow, would the Starks really have given a bastard that legendary name?

If he were baseborn then perhaps this might cause a scandal, though if the King loved the boy’s mother he might have made an exception.

While if the mother were highborn I doubt that it would be unreasonable to give him a ‘famous’ name like that.

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On 2/18/2018 at 10:58 PM, Yukle said:

Stannis isn't a devout follower of R'Hllor, or any god at all. He says as much after seeing the deaths of his parents at sea. His decision to have Melisandre assist him is a pragmatic one, as is his decision to have knights. He frequently checks Melisandre's influence and prevents her from going further than she'd like.

Thank you for your answer. 

However, I don't have the impression Stannis is a pious man, it's just puzzling how Melisandre kind of "tolerates" these warriors honoring the Seven's knighthood. I imagine she wants to rename them (not dispose of them) in some R'hllorist fashion.  

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4 hours ago, Kandrax said:

Can someone explain me whole Theon durden thing?  I didn't notice that he has blackouts 

There are many threads of discussion on the topic, but here is a statement of the reasoning behind the Theon Durden theory... 

First, reread the first Theon chapter in Clash. Consider the vibe about Theon at the beginning of that chapter and the vibe about the Hooded Man. By the end of that chapter his father had taken him down a peg and set him on the path of betrayal.

From A Ghost in Winterfell, Dance:

Farther on, he came upon a man striding in the opposite direction, a hooded cloak flapping behind him. When they found themselves face-to-face their eyes met briefly. The man put a hand on his dagger.

"Theon Turncloak. Theon Kinslayer."

"I'm not. I never I was ironborn."

"False is all you were. How is it you still breathe?"

"The gods are not done with me," Theon answered, wondering if this could be the killer, the night walker who had stuffed Yellow Dick's cock into his mouth and pushed Roger Ryswell's groom off the battlements. Oddly, he was not afraid. He pulled the glove from his left hand. "Lord Ramsay is not done with me."

The man looked, and laughed. "I leave you to him, then."

Would a recognizable Glover, Mollen, or other Stark loyalist be striding around occupied Winterfell if he were striking folks down from the shadows? No this is a brave and haughty man confronting Reek face-to-face. He was wearing a hooded cloak just like Theon was at the beginning of Theon I in Clash.

Second, Mance's spearwives tacitly admitted to the killings except for Little Walder so there is no Stark loyalist sneaking around and killing Boltons and Freys.

Third, the Hooded Man is walking in the opposite direction. This is the ghost of Theon's former self. Reek's character is completely opposite to Theon's.

Fourth, Theon had sworn his allegiance to Robb and thought of Robb as a brother making Robb's brothers his own. He dreamed of wedding Sansa, becoming their brother and Ned's son in truth. Of course he betrayed Robb and held out that he had murdered his brothers. (False is all he ever was.) Accordingly his former self named him Turncloak and Kinslayer. Theon who had been chastised by his father for naming Robb a brother meekly denied the kinslaying title not because he didn't actually kill the Stark boys but because he was not actually a Stark. But the ghost of his former self knew better.

Fifth, Reek's lack of fear was odd because he had been afraid of everyone ever since he had become Reek. But he had no reason to fear his own ghost. 

Sixth, he always took care to conceal his maimed hands but to the ghost of his former self he displayed the proof that he was no longer who he had been.

Finally, consider Theon's ark and the progression of the titles of his POV chapters from Clash and through Dance. He was Theon and became Reek, until something awakened in The Prince of Winterfell. Then he was the Turncloak just as his former self accused him in the next chapter, A Ghost in Winterfell. And then he was Theon again.

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7 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

There are many threads of discussion on the topic, but here is a statement of the reasoning behind the Theon Durden theory... 

First, reread the first Theon chapter in Clash. Consider the vibe about Theon at the beginning of that chapter and the vibe about the Hooded Man. By the end of that chapter his father had taken him down a peg and set him on the path of betrayal.

From A Ghost in Winterfell, Dance:

Farther on, he came upon a man striding in the opposite direction, a hooded cloak flapping behind him. When they found themselves face-to-face their eyes met briefly. The man put a hand on his dagger.

"Theon Turncloak. Theon Kinslayer."

"I'm not. I never I was ironborn."

"False is all you were. How is it you still breathe?"

"The gods are not done with me," Theon answered, wondering if this could be the killer, the night walker who had stuffed Yellow Dick's cock into his mouth and pushed Roger Ryswell's groom off the battlements. Oddly, he was not afraid. He pulled the glove from his left hand. "Lord Ramsay is not done with me."

The man looked, and laughed. "I leave you to him, then."

Would a recognizable Glover, Mollen, or other Stark loyalist be striding around occupied Winterfell if he were striking folks down from the shadows? No this is a brave and haughty man confronting Reek face-to-face. He was wearing a hooded cloak just like Theon was at the beginning of Theon I in Clash.

Second, Mance's spearwives tacitly admitted to the killings except for Little Walder so there is no Stark loyalist sneaking around and killing Boltons and Freys.

Third, the Hooded Man is walking in the opposite direction. This is the ghost of Theon's former self. Reek's character is completely opposite to Theon's.

Fourth, Theon had sworn his allegiance to Robb and thought of Robb as a brother making Robb's brothers his own. He dreamed of wedding Sansa, becoming their brother and Ned's son in truth. Of course he betrayed Robb and held out that he had murdered his brothers. (False is all he ever was.) Accordingly his former self named him Turncloak and Kinslayer. Theon who had been chastised by his father for naming Robb a brother meekly denied the kinslaying title not because he didn't actually kill the Stark boys but because he was not actually a Stark. But the ghost of his former self knew better.

Fifth, Reek's lack of fear was odd because he had been afraid of everyone ever since he had become Reek. But he had no reason to fear his own ghost. 

Sixth, he always took care to conceal his maimed hands but to the ghost of his former self he displayed the proof that he was no longer who he had been.

Finally, consider Theon's ark and the progression of the titles of his POV chapters from Clash and through Dance. He was Theon and became Reek, until something awakened in The Prince of Winterfell. Then he was the Turncloak just as his former self accused him in the next chapter, A Ghost in Winterfell. And then he was Theon again.

I was speaking about theory that Theon had blackouts and killed Little.

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58 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

I was speaking about theory that Theon had blackouts and killed Little.

I do not think I had heard of that theory. But a common answer for who killed Little Walder is that Big Walder did the deed. Otherwise there would be a lot less blood on Big Walder's clothing if Big Walder had just "found him in the snow".

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