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Small Questions v. 10105

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10 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

"There are many threads of discussion on the topic, but here is a statement of the reasoning behind the Theon Durden theory... First...Fourth, ..Sixth, ...Finally, consider ...And then he was Theon again. "

Lost Melnionean, please ... PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME ALL THE THEORIES!!! ... AS YOU HAVE POSTED HERE, just above !!!!

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20 minutes ago, Yaya said:

Lost Melnionean, please ... PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME ALL THE THEORIES!!! ... AS YOU HAVE POSTED HERE, just above !!!!

Let's take it one by one. If you ask something specific here, either I or another will likely point you to a seminal thread or summarize the theory. 

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14 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Oops! 

I will change my question. Is there any evidence that Theon had blackouts?

 

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22 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

I will change my question. Is there any evidence that Theon had blackouts?

Some readers have noted a gap or gaps during the sequence of events during Reek's chapters in Winterfell. I have always figured that the storyteller was only telling us what we needed to know and avoiding unnecessary details. But a few (and I think it's a small minority) have suggested that this is evidence that Theon was murdering folks in the castle. I am not aware of an OP stating the theory. I only recall seeing it argued in threads discussing the hooded man or the perpetrator(s) of the Winterfell murders during the Bolton occupation. 

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3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Some readers have noted a gap or gaps during the sequence of events during Reek's chapters in Winterfell. I have always figured that the storyteller was only telling us what we needed to know and avoiding unnecessary details. But a few (and I think it's a small minority) have suggested that this is evidence that Theon was murdering folks in the castle. I am not aware of an OP stating the theory. I only recall seeing it argued in threads discussing the hooded man or the perpetrator(s) of the Winterfell murders during the Bolton occupation. 

Yeah I feel like you could argue that everyone is having blackouts if that’s all the evidence they have :P

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6 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Some readers have noted a gap or gaps during the sequence of events during Reek's chapters in Winterfell. I have always figured that the storyteller was only telling us what we needed to know and avoiding unnecessary details. But a few (and I think it's a small minority) have suggested that this is evidence that Theon was murdering folks in the castle. I am not aware of an OP stating the theory. I only recall seeing it argued in threads discussing the hooded man or the perpetrator(s) of the Winterfell murders during the Bolton occupation. 

I think that i found that one on reddit.

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She was walking down a long hall beneath high stone arches. She could not look behind her, must not look behind her. There was a door ahead of her, tiny with distance, but even from afar, she saw that it was painted red. She walked faster, and her bare feet left bloody footprints on the stone.

--Where else do we see a long hall with high stone arches?

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In Bran III, ADWD, he has many visions, most of which I was able to decipher on my first read through except for one- the woman who waits for someone to avenge her. Are there any accepted theories as to who this is?

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Did Martin says that Gregor is the most evil character in the books?

Edited by Kandrax

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20 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

Did Martin says that Gregor is the most evil character in the books?

I am not aware of any such statement, and I would be shocked if he did. 

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3 hours ago, Pride of Driftmark said:

In Bran III, ADWD, he has many visions, most of which I was able to decipher on my first read through except for one- the woman who waits for someone to avenge her. Are there any accepted theories as to who this is?

There are a few ideas. Personally, I don't think it matters. I think that vision was to show us the power of blood sacrifice and the weirnet. 

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4 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I am not aware of any such statement, and I would be shocked if he did. 

Well, Gregor is certainly one of the most evil characters.

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22 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

Well, Gregor is certainly one of the most evil characters.

For sure. But the comparison is subjective. Is Gregor more evil than Euron? Ramsay? Rorge? 

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1 minute ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

For sure. But the comparison is subjective. Is Gregor more evil than Euron? Ramsay? Rorge? 

As you said it's sujective. Lot of people would call either Ramsay or Euron most evil, though someone at tvtropes said that Rorge is in many way worse than Ramsay. Speaking about Rorge, i never unterstand why he isn't too much hated.

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4 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

As you said it's sujective. Lot of people would call either Ramsay or Euron most evil, though someone at tvtropes said that Rorge is in many way worse than Ramsay. Speaking about Rorge, i never unterstand why he isn't too much hated.

I don't think he's exactly not hated, but as for not universally being singled out in questions like these, I think there are a few different possible reasons:

1. He's currently dead and not likely to be unRorged.

2. He was vile from the moment we were introduced to him till the moment Brienne killed him, and he has never had any pretension of being anything else, nor does anyone in-universe have any reason to expect him to not be vile. Gregor is a knight and should protect the innocent, for example. Also Gregor, Euron, and Ramsay have all betrayed family members in one way or another (technically unconfirmed with Ramsay), which is particularly loathesome, and, weirdly enough, there is no sign that Rorge isn't entirely loyal to Biter.

3. We really haven't seen him in a position of any kind of power. As horrid and destructive as he is, he is not all that important himself. And that brings us back to the part where he's dead, so he's never going to get any more important.

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7 hours ago, Pride of Driftmark said:

In Bran III, ADWD, he has many visions, most of which I was able to decipher on my first read through except for one- the woman who waits for someone to avenge her. Are there any accepted theories as to who this is?

That is a good thread that covers that question. If it is a Stark woman, it would be in the generation (roughly) of Ned's grandmother or great-grandmother, but it really could be anyone.

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3 hours ago, Therae said:

Rorge isn't entirely loyal to Biter.

Rorge loyal to Biter? I would rather said that Biter was loyal to Rorge. Rorge made him into what he was.

Edited by Kandrax

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@Ran help a big bouffant out here. I read somewhere, maybe not in this forum, that George ended up writing the entire section in the World book about Nymeria and her 10,00 ships in his own words (or something to the like). Is that true? 

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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15 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

 

She was walking down a long hall beneath high stone arches. She could not look behind her, must not look behind her. There was a door ahead of her, tiny with distance, but even from afar, she saw that it was painted red. She walked faster, and her bare feet left bloody footprints on the stone.

--Where else do we see a long hall with high stone arches?

https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=+hall+arch&scope[]=agot&scope[]=adwd&scope[]=tmk&scope[]=acok&scope[]=twow&scope[]=twoiaf&scope[]=asos&scope[]=thk&scope[]=trp&scope[]=affc&scope[]=tss&scope[]=tpatq

 

3 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

@Ran help a big bouffant out here. I read somewhere, maybe not in this forum, that George ended up writing the entire section in the World book about Nymeria and her 10,00 ships in his own words (or something to the like). Is that true? 

Quote

we presented a very speculative, and brief, version of the history of the Rhoynar flight to Dorne. George wracked his brain and asked if we had drawn from something he told us, and we said no, it was all purely speculative rather than spinning out from some arcane tidbit he'd shared with fans. So, a few days later, we got a lengthy file containing his history of the Rhoynar which was very, very different than anything we could have imagined. https://redd.it/2kgfy7

 

10 hours ago, Kandrax said:

Did Martin says that Gregor is the most evil character in the books?

The closest quote I can recall:

Quote

With regard to characterization and point of view, GRRM said that for any character who is a POV character he has to find something that he and readers can sympathize with even if the character in question does reprehensible things. He said there is always something he can find, or if not then it just won't be a POV character. Gregor Clegane, for example, could never be a POV character, but Jaime Lannister can be despite his bad actions, because there's more to Jaime than that. GRRM mentioned that Cersei will be a major POV character in A Feast for Crows. I was outraged by this and commented ""You just won't ever leave us any character we can purely hate, will you?". GRRM smiled at that, and that's when he gave the counter-example of Gregor Clegane.  

 

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Where can I find the exact quote that GRRM said Aegon IV was the worst king? I've read most entries in the SSM archive, still couldn't find it.

The closest thing was from @Werthead:

Quote

 

According to George it's Aegon IV, "the worst king in the history of Westeros". I though this was interesting because it seemed like you could make better cases for Aerys II and Maegor, but his reasoning seems sound:

Aerys II and Maegor were insane or getting there and not in control of their faculties. Daeron I got a lot of people killed but that was not his intention; his problem was naivete rather than malice. Rhaenyra was protecting the destiny she'd had drilled into her was rightfully hers every day for her entire life. Aegon II may have received bad counsel but was also a product of his culture (which was essentially misogynistic) and the advice he received from others.

Aegon IV, on the other hand, was not mad. He was deliberately cruel, neglectful and a bully. He had stupid ideas which he insisted were put into practice despite being impractical and downright stupid (the wooden dragons being the most obvious example), and got angry when he was ever told "No," no matter the reasoning. He favoured people who flattered him over those who were actually competent. He played games in his court by pitting courtiers and mistresses against one another for his amusement. He tried to do things (his aborted invasion of Dorne) which would have killed thousands of people to no real benefit for the realm. He stoked the fires that led to the Blackfyre Rebellion just for the lolz (essentially). Aegon the Unworthy was deliberately, maliciously destructive and toxic to everyone and everything he touched, and encouraged that behaviour in others.

 

 

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