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Small Questions v. 10105

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1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Sansa I, Storm 6

Olenna was born just a few years before Bloodraven was removed from office by Egg, so was Olenna referring to Bloodraven's legacy as Mastrr of Whisperers and Hand of the King? Do we know who Egg's spymaster and hand were? 

That is an interesting observation. Probably would be a nod toward Bloodraven. I imagine that whoever had to replace him as spymaster would have some very large shoes to fill, so much so, that perhaps he did continue as spymaster while he acted as Hand.

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20 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

The error of 282 AC actually being 283 AC is already in the errata!

All the errors listed in the earlier linked thread are in the errata as well, as a couple of others :) If you come across any others, please add them! :D 

I finished checking the latest kindle version (v3.1_r5), only one single change: House Parren is removed from the Reach section and put back in the Westerland section, as promised by Ran. 

Please update the wiki errata page and House Parren page.

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Two old riddles from George, do we know their answers now?

1. Renamed character

Geek's guide to the Galaxy interview in May 2010:

Q: Is there anything in your earlier books that you wish you could go back and change in light of later developments?

A: There’s actually one thing under consideration right now. I can’t say too much about it, but that might impact… It’s very minor, though, it would be changing a character’s name, changing the name of a minor character for the television series, and if we go ahead and change that name, I might go back in the books and change his name in the books, as well.So in the later editions of the book, the minor character would have a different name. But it’s still up in the air whether we’ll actually do that or not. So that’s really all I can say about it right now.

It was in 2010, so the character was probably some male appeared in Season 1. If he did change name in the show, likely candidates are Robert Arryn(changed to Robin) and Elmar Frey(changed to Waldron). 

Werthead recalled GRRM had confirmed it was Sweetrobin in another interview but forgot the source. It's probably not included in the SSM archive. 

2. ADWD codenames

When writing ADWD, GRRM used codenames such as Fred, Barney, Yogi for POVs. Many threads have discussed their identities. feldman10's explanation seems most likely to me.  But he's still unsure of Barney.

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2 hours ago, Peach King said:

I have a question.... Was Loras Renly's page as well? Or just his squire? 

Well Loras is only 5 years younger than Renly so I think he was the first squire Renly ever had and age-wise I don't think it is likely. We don't know when Renly was knighted but Loras was knighted at only 15 years old. If Renly also got knighted at a reasonable age of say 17, Loras was 12 then and would have been a squire for someone else for some years.

He may have been fostered at Storm's End though, but we simply don't have that information.

Short answer: No.

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How is it that a poster who joined the site in 2014 can view my profile and have no (zero) content count yet they them self have had recent (March) profile visitors with a total of 822 views?

Edit: debated whether to provide the name @Forum Walker

Edited by Clegane'sPup

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Urhm, quick question here... how many babies did Selyse have? I know Shireen is the only surviving child, but how many other were there?

I only found these quotes, and the wiki does not say.

A Storm of Swords - Davos IV

"Why would you want it, then?" Davos asked him.
"It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son."

A Storm of Swords - Davos V

Ser Axell went to one knee. "On bended knee I beg you, sire. Wake the stone dragon and let the traitors tremble. Like Aegon you begin as Lord of Dragonstone. Like Aegon you shall conquer. Let the false and the fickle feel your flames."
"Your own wife begs as well, lord husband." Queen Selyse went down on both knees before the king, hands clasped as if in prayer. "Robert and Delena defiled our bed and laid a curse upon our union. This boy is the foul fruit of their fornications. Lift his shadow from my womb and I will bear you many trueborn sons, I know it." She threw her arms around his legs. "He is only one boy, born of your brother's lust and my cousin's shame."
 
Thanks :thumbsup:

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20 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Urhm, quick question here... how many babies did Selyse have? I know Shireen is the only surviving child, but how many other were there?

I only found these quotes, and the wiki does not say.

A Storm of Swords - Davos IV

"Why would you want it, then?" Davos asked him.
"It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son."

A Storm of Swords - Davos V

Ser Axell went to one knee. "On bended knee I beg you, sire. Wake the stone dragon and let the traitors tremble. Like Aegon you begin as Lord of Dragonstone. Like Aegon you shall conquer. Let the false and the fickle feel your flames."
"Your own wife begs as well, lord husband." Queen Selyse went down on both knees before the king, hands clasped as if in prayer. "Robert and Delena defiled our bed and laid a curse upon our union. This boy is the foul fruit of their fornications. Lift his shadow from my womb and I will bear you many trueborn sons, I know it." She threw her arms around his legs. "He is only one boy, born of your brother's lust and my cousin's shame."
 
Thanks :thumbsup:

Selyse never gave Stannis any other children. They effectively didn't have any sex after they produced Shireen (and even before they didn't have sex all that often). Selyse never had any stillbirths, etc.

Selyse is pretty much as ridiculous as Queen Aelinor who prays to the Seven to grant her children despite the fact that her husband, King Aerys I, never consummated their marriage. She converted to Mel's faith because she hopes this new religion will help her fulfill her role as wife and queen, completely shutting out the truth that Stannis will never share the bed with her again - especially not now that Melisandre is his true wife and queen.

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2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Selyse never gave Stannis any other children. They effectively didn't have any sex after they produced Shireen (and even before they didn't have sex all that often). Selyse never had any stillbirths, etc.

Selyse is pretty much as ridiculous as Queen Aelinor who prays to the Seven to grant her children despite the fact that her husband, King Aerys I, never consummated their marriage. She converted to Mel's faith because she hopes this new religion will help her fulfill her role as wife and queen, completely shutting out the truth that Stannis will never share the bed with her again - especially not now that Melisandre is his true wife and queen.

Thanks, and just what I thought. A few recent posts by other members were rather confusing and I thought that I had missed something in the books.

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10 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Thanks, and just what I thought. A few recent posts by other members were rather confusing and I thought that I had missed something in the books.

Perhaps they were referring to the TV show?

Spoiler

In the series, Selyse and Stannis had three stillborn sons, Petyr, Tomard and Edric, whose corpses she keeps in her chambers in jars.

In the books, however, it is said that

Stannis had always been uncomfortable around women, even his own wife. When he had gone to King's Landing to sit on Robert's council, he had left Selyse on Dragonstone with their daughter. His letters had been few, his visits fewer; he did his duty in the marriage bed once or twice a year, but took no joy in it, and the sons he had once hoped for had never come.

 

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1 hour ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Perhaps they were referring to the TV show?

  Hide contents

In the series, Selyse and Stannis had three stillborn sons, Petyr, Tomard and Edric, whose corpses she keeps in her chambers in jars.

In the books, however, it is said that

Stannis had always been uncomfortable around women, even his own wife. When he had gone to King's Landing to sit on Robert's council, he had left Selyse on Dragonstone with their daughter. His letters had been few, his visits fewer; he did his duty in the marriage bed once or twice a year, but took no joy in it, and the sons he had once hoped for had never come.

Yeah, that's what I recalled too. @Lord Varys are you sure they stopped doing it completely?  

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4 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Yeah, that's what I recalled too. @Lord Varys are you sure they stopped doing it completely?  

I assume Stannis no longer shares the bed with Selyse since he, apparently, spends many a night in Melisandre's bed. Keep in mind the man actually had the woman in his tent during his campaign in the Stormlands back in ACoK.

These two are very close, and if you have the red-haired wonder in direct comparison to ugly Selyse there is no question who you would prefer in bed. Especially in light of the fact that Stannis is not, in fact, uncomfortable around Melisandre. He takes no issue when she touches him in public.

Which is actually a pretty strong hint that the man is as much in love with Melisandre as Stannis can be in love with a woman. And he is irritated when Mel decides to stay at the Wall with Jon rather than accompany him on his campaign.

The fact that Selyse never got pregnant again after Shireen is a pretty strong sign that they no longer had any sex - aside from, perhaps, once or twice. We don't even know how often Stannis visited Dragonstone while he served on Robert's Small Council. He certainly does not allow his wife and daughter to accompany him to court. As far as we know they weren't even there for Joffrey's nameday tourney.

It is also implied that Stannis wanted sons and wasn't encouraged that this ugly wife of his could give him any after he got a sickly, disfigured daughter. One assumes Stannis rationale there is that having sex with Selyse is such an ugly affair and still no guarantee that he would get a son, so why the hell bother? Assuming he still can bring himself to actually have sex with Selyse - which is by no means clear.

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2 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Perhaps they were referring to the TV show?

Exactly!

2 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:
  Reveal hidden contents

In the series, Selyse and Stannis had three stillborn sons, Petyr, Tomard and Edric, whose corpses she keeps in her chambers in jars.

In the books, however, it is said that

Stannis had always been uncomfortable around women, even his own wife. When he had gone to King's Landing to sit on Robert's council, he had left Selyse on Dragonstone with their daughter. His letters had been few, his visits fewer; he did his duty in the marriage bed once or twice a year, but took no joy in it, and the sons he had once hoped for had never come.

 

And thank you for this additional quote.

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

@Rhaenys_Targaryen, why, oh why...

  Reveal hidden contents

did you have to make me remember the dead foetuses in jars? :ack:

:lol:

Why, WHy, WHY?!?!?!?!?!:tantrum:

Of all the decisions to change the backstories... this??? :ack:

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2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Exactly!

And thank you for this additional quote.

Why, WHy, WHY?!?!?!?!?!:tantrum:

Of all the decisions to change the backstories... this??? :ack:

Show backstory content:

Spoiler

Stephen Dillane who played Stannis has been very vocally upset about getting no direction from D&D about Stannis and it's apparently well-known somehow that D&D both hate Stannis as a character. While some of the actors have delved deeply into the books for direction of the their character, some feel it interferes with how they work. I don't really know, but as I've seen Dillane in other things, I see him as someone who takes his work seriously so maybe he finds reading the books to be disrupting?

Communicating to a TV audience that Stannis isn't comfortable around women without making him gay would be difficult to get across to a casual TV audience. Much easier to add a lot of still-borns.

As with so many wtf show issues, an answer can usually be found if one looks to laziness and Hollywood's preference to focus on plot over character.

 

 

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On 5/21/2018 at 8:44 PM, Lollygag said:

Show backstory content:

  Hide contents

Stephen Dillane who played Stannis has been very vocally upset about getting no direction from D&D about Stannis and it's apparently well-known somehow that D&D both hate Stannis as a character. While some of the actors have delved deeply into the books for direction of the their character, some feel it interferes with how they work. I don't really know, but as I've seen Dillane in other things, I see him as someone who takes his work seriously so maybe he finds reading the books to be disrupting?

Communicating to a TV audience that Stannis isn't comfortable around women without making him gay would be difficult to get across to a casual TV audience. Much easier to add a lot of still-borns.

As with so many wtf show issues, an answer can usually be found if one looks to laziness and Hollywood's preference to focus on plot over character.

 

 

Spoiler

One of the reasons I made myself reading the books was the portrayal of Stannis Baratheon on the tv show. I got the feeling that this character is misunderstood so they just wrote him the way they did and I wasn't wrong.

That scene with the babies was bizarre, although, must admit it was totally Selyse moment. It was another adding just to be different for the sake of it, or maybe for the sake of the shock value. For example, they added that Robert and Cersei had a kid which died young. This doesn't change the plot nor it adds something to the story, it's just out there.  

 

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On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 8:06 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

Thanks, and just what I thought. A few recent posts by other members were rather confusing and I thought that I had missed something in the books.

Like you miss anything.

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Quick question;

The Lord Mooton referred to in ACoK 5, Arya II, who went hunting for Nymeria and her pack of wolves with his sons, is that William Mooton or is it his father? Because to me it seems like William Mooton isn't really all that bold that he would go chasing after wolves and while he sends his men to Riverrun to fight, he locks himself up in his castle and stays there even when the town is sacked. 

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2 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

Quick question;

The Lord Mooton referred to in ACoK 5, Arya II, who went hunting for Nymeria and her pack of wolves with his sons, is that William Mooton or is it his father? Because to me it seems like William Mooton isn't really all that bold that he would go chasing after wolves and while he sends his men to Riverrun to fight, he locks himself up in his castle and stays there even when the town is sacked. 

Arya calls the tale she's told by the man as just a story, so the report and the reporter's facts can be called into question. Given there's no reference to Lord Mooton's father passing away in the course of the novels, I think William Mooton is the lord being referred to, but it's from someone who has heard a garbled rumor and doesn't really know any particular facts (such as the fact that William Mooton has no sons).

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5 minutes ago, Ran said:

Arya calls the tale she's told by the man as just a story, so the report and the reporter's facts can be called into question. Given there's no reference to Lord Mooton's father passing away in the course of the novels, I think William Mooton is the lord being referred to, but it's from someone who has heard a garbled rumor and doesn't really know any particular facts (such as the fact that William Mooton has no sons).

Are we sure about the fact that Lord William doesn't have any sons? Isn't it possible that they died in the war?

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