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Small Questions v. 10105

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On 11/5/2018 at 6:02 AM, Ran said:

The colors were, I suspect, random. All the arms in the two sets of heraldry are references to works of Jack Vance, with the dragons representing his story "The Dragon Masters".

Sure are a lot of those random green and black color combinations from Game on. 

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13 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Sure are a lot of those random green and black color combinations from Game on. 

Green is one of the most used color words in the series, so I think it'd be odd if there weren't combinations of green-and-some-other-color on occasion. And as black is the single most used color word, well... green-and-black should happen on occasion too. 

Edited by Ran

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6 minutes ago, Ran said:

Green is one of the most used color words in the series, so I think it'd be odd if there weren't combinations of green-and-some-other-color on occasion. And as black is the single most used color word, well... green-and-black should happen on occasion too. 

Just so... no doubt. I am sure it is as you say. 

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/104104-green-and-black/

 

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Does the water gardens only use water from the beach? Or does it use other water sources? I thought Dorne was in a drought.

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Do you guys think House Manderly is actually descendant of Hightowers? Dorian Hightower set aside his wife for an Andal princess and later House Hightower was passed to either his grandson or an infant heir by his Andal wife. Is it possible his wife and children by that first wife left Old Town and founded a new House at White Harbor? 

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Dorian was lord by the time of the Andal's arrival in the Reach. At that point the Gardener kings were Garth IX, Merle I and Gwayne V. Later there was a Garth X whose daughter was married to Manderly, and it was even later that the Manderlys were driven from the Reach by the order of Perceon III. So probably no.

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3 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Dorian was lord by the time of the Andal's arrival in the Reach. At that point the Gardener kings were Garth IX, Merle I and Gwayne V. Later there was a Garth X whose daughter was married to Manderly, and it was even later that the Manderlys were driven from the Reach by the order of Perceon III. So probably no.

Thank you for answering! 

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How did our young Ned of the Hill travelled through the Dorne, first the pass and then near several castles, unopposed with just his magnificent seven at first and then   Howland and whoever else survived the incident at the tower.

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16 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

How did our young Ned of the Hill travelled through the Dorne, first the pass and then near several castles, unopposed with just his magnificent seven at first and then   Howland and whoever else survived the incident at the tower.

I'd like to know that, too. For the time being I presuppose Ned did actually travel with a larger party, especially since his seven guys wouldn't have been able to convince Mace Tyrell and his lords to yield - or rather they may have been if Mace and his buddies were willing to yield, yet it would be utter madness and stupidity to confront assembled lords and knights of the Reach with just seven guys, especially after what had just transpired in KL. Aerys' murder and the Sack clearly had the potential to inspire a prolongation of the war, just as the murder of Rhaenyra did back during the Dance.

I don't think Ned would have taken his army but a couple hundred men, perhaps, and he may have decided to rely only on his six companions when he was close to the tower and knowing/suspecting what to expect there.

An interesting scenario could be that Ned actually met with and treated with certain Dornish lords in the Prince's Pass who then pointed him to the tower he was looking for, but refused to permit his host/army to set a foot on Dornish soil.

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13 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

An interesting scenario could be that Ned actually met with and treated with certain Dornish lords in the Prince's Pass who then pointed him to the tower he was looking for, but refused to permit his host/army to set a foot on Dornish soil.

 

I thought of this as well but where's the secrecy then?

Asking about the tower where your sister is held and presumed by everyone to be raped and then appearing with a baby in your arms, which you didn't have before asking, is bound to raise suspicions.

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Just now, Corvo the Crow said:

I thought of this as well but where's the secrecy then?

Asking about the tower where your sister is held and presumed by everyone to be raped and then appearing with a baby in your arms, which you didn't have before asking, is bound to raise suspicions.

Well, if we go with the small host idea, then Ned may have told them to go back to KL when he entered Dorne. Later still he wouldn't have taken the infant back to his men but would have taken the child with Howland (and whoever else was at the tower, possibly Wylla) to Starfall. Chances are that he was assisted in this by some Dornishmen, perhaps commoners, perhaps people from the castles and keeps in the region. Even if they made their way alone they would have been watched and observed. There should be people there who know - more or less - what transpired there.

The crucial thing is to keep Lyanna Stark's child and Eddard Stark's bastard separate - something I think was accomplished by Ned making 'Jon Snow' younger than Lyanna's child and by not actually revealing he had a bastard until such a time as the Lyanna situation was taken care of (i.e. Ned had talked to Robert and other people at court about what had happened at the tower and to Lyanna).

I also expect that Lyanna's pregnancy not unknown or not unsuspected. Rhaegar had basically no reason to keep it a secret. That means that Ned could have revealed a lot about the tower aside from the fact that Lyanna delivered a living child. He could have told everyone she died in childbirth delivering a stillborn daughter, say, or that she died due to complications following a miscarriage. That wouldn't have been uncommon.

How 'dangerous' 'Jon Snow' actually is is a completely different thing. The child is only relevant as a possible claimant if it was known that Rhaegar and Lyanna were married and that marriage was seen as a proper marriage (I think this was known and that this is the explanation why Ned made the child his bastard rather than raising him as Lyanna's bastard - a bastard wouldn't have been a threat to Robert). Then there are the looks of the child. It doesn't look like a Targaryen, so the fact that it was born far away from court (and thus away from any member of the royal family who could have acknowledged it as Rhaegar's son and King Aerys II's grandson) also greatly reduces the chance that the child is ever going to become a pretender to the throne.

All Ned needed to do was to tell the world the story that the child was his bastard. It looked like him, not like Rhaegar, so this was a believable story. And from there it is remarkably easy to actually to get people to swallow this cover story, even if they all have suspicions. A prince who doesn't know he is a prince is no prince at all, and nobody is going to see a prince in a bastard - especially not a bastard who doesn't look like a prince should look like.

Challenging Ned Stark's word on this would be challenging the Lord of Winterfell. Very few people would do that, and especially Robert had no reason doing so - assuming he suspected anything.

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Has the prologue been confirmed to be Jeyne Westerling (or at least include her)?

Because I was thinking that Jon was our only POV at the wall, and with him (at least temporarily) out of the picture we will need a new POV. And if we are to believe GRRM doesn’t wanna add more POVs the prologue would be a good option for this.

Thoughts?

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5 minutes ago, Darion Storm said:

Has the prologue been confirmed to be Jeyne Westerling (or at least include her)?

Because I was thinking that Jon was our only POV at the wall, and with him (at least temporarily) out of the picture we will need a new POV. And if we are to believe GRRM doesn’t wanna add more POVs the prologue would be a good option for this.

Thoughts?

Jeyne will be appear in the prologue, but not necessarily be the POV. https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2m3evm/spoilers_all_prologue_confirmed_by_grrm_for_winds/

 

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4 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Melisandre is a POV at the Wall.

 

3 hours ago, Darion Storm said:

Good point

Also I think Davos will be back there about halfway through the next book. And I think we will get some visions or talking or something in Bran's chapters with Jon. 

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On 11/7/2018 at 10:29 PM, Crona said:

Does the water gardens only use water from the beach? Or does it use other water sources? I thought Dorne was in a drought.

Eastern Dorne is hilly. I mean, hilly enough to sustain a very long system of rivers by which "farms and orchards crowd the river’s banks for hundreds of leagues" (TWOIAF, Dorne). In a SSM, Martin has said that "they had enough rain" to handle things even during long summers.

Water is known to be rare and valuable, though. However, what could be more luxurious than building a palace abundantly irrigated by fresh water in Dorne?

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